Christian "Apostasy" =unpardonable sin doctrine supposed to learn at young age

Clare73 said:

Only one soil is true faith of rebirth. . .that which produces the crop.
The other soils are counterfeit faith and produce no good fruit.

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And no one can predict their own perseverance, meaning they can't know with perfect certainty which soil they represent. It continues to amaze me how pastors as well as laity in some churches i attended would question another person's salvation, who thought they were saved, But maybe that's, simply, a legitimate enough question in general. IDK, I no longer think of rebirth as necessarily entailing some all at once permanent salvation event but rather as the beginning of a relationship and a purpose which is meant to unfold and blossom into eternal life.

Clare73 said:

Well, you can count on one thing. . .you will have no more to do with it than you did with your natural birth. . .that's why is is called "birth."

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God does the birthing; we decide how interested we are in it. So Jesus tells us we must remain in Him.

fhansen said:

And no one can predict their own perseverance, meaning they can't know with perfect certainty which soil they represent. It continues to amaze me how pastors as well as laity in some churches i attended would question another person's salvation, who thought they were saved, But maybe that's, simply, a legitimate enough question in general. IDK, I no longer think of rebirth as necessarily entailing some all at once permanent salvation event

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That puts you in disagreement with Jesus ( Jn 6:39-40) and Paul (2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14) regarding true faith demonstrated by good fruit.

fhansen said:

God does the birthing; we decide how interested we are in it.

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Did you decide how interested you were in your physical birth?
Likewise with your spiritual birth. The sovereign (as unaccountable as the wind, Jn 3:6-8) Holy Spirit does not consult you regarding the new birth.

fhansen said:

So Jesus tells us we must remain in Him.

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And those who are born again of the Holy Spirit do just that. . .God's arm is not too short.

Clare73 said:

Did you decide how interested you were in your physical birth?

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Nope, neither did Adam. And yet he had a decided part to play in his spiritual death.

Clare73 said:

That puts you in disagreement with Jesus ( Jn 6:39-40) and Paul (2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14) regarding true faith demonstrated by good fruit.

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They talk about faith, not "true faith". Either way I'm sure the faith of the Jewish leaders in John 12:42 was as true as any other:
"Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved human praise more than praise from God."

Probably not such a good place for them to be:
“Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven."

I mean, if you want to define a "true believer" as anyone who perseveres to the end I'll agree: the elect are, um...the elect! But predicting that status infallibly is foolhardy, and borderline arrogant IMO. The passages you cited are hyperbole, encouragement, defining that which is set in motion to occur presuming we remain and persevere-and arguably aren't necessarily even applicable to every single Ephesian who first heard that letter read. And that's why we have many passages that give balance: warnings and admonitions against unbelief and inaction.

Clare73 said:

And those who are born again of the Holy Spirit do just that. . .God's arm is not too short.

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He reaches down, but our arms may withdraw. He could save the whole world if He wants-and He does want, according to Scripture.... He's a good God, infinitely so, wanting none to perish.