Iran Erupts: Crowds Burn US Flags and Swear to Ayatollah

Postvieww said:

I’ll speak for myself. You should assume nothing about my beliefs. I didn't assuming anything about yours, I just said I wanted to understand them because of a comment you had made earlier. Not my intent to judge your beliefs , and I told you that. I did thank you for your response without critique.

Click to expand...

Then I apologize, but non MAGA Christians are experiencing quite a bit of that kind of thing these days. It is my understanding and experience that Dispensationalists reject or at least de-emphasize the Creeds and most of MAGA Christianity seems to be coming out of Dispensationalism.

BCP1928 said:

I'm in an even worse position. I've lived and worked in Muslim countries for extended periods of time including a several weeks at the end of last year in North Africa with my wife, who is openly Jewish. We spoke frankly about the situation with Jews and Muslims who lived there. We speak Arabic and have studiec the language and the religion. There is no way you are going to convince me that you aren't full of s___.

Click to expand...

You hung around a lot of Islamists did you?

Oh no, people who already hate America are angry at America. What will we ever do.

rjs330 said:

You hung around a lot of Islamists did you?

Click to expand...

No, not lately. Back in the day when I was first learning Arabic one of my teachers was in the Muslim Brotherhood and I learned a few interesting things, but no, mostly I just deal with ordinary working-class Muslims. What do you care? Haven't you already denounced my experience as a lie?

seeking.IAM said:

The prevailing opinion seems to disagree. I will keep the book in mind, though. Thank you for the recommendation.

Click to expand...

@NxNW, I recommend to you and @seeking.IAM The Fog of War, a documentary on the life of Robert S. McNamara almost entirely via extended interviews with him.

While we associate him mostly with Vietnam, he has quite a bit to say about WWII.

BCP1928 said:

No, not lately. Back in the day when I was first learning Arabic one of my teachers was in the Muslim Brotherhood and I learned a few interesting things, but no, mostly I just deal with ordinary working-class Muslims. What do you care? Haven't you already denounced my experience as a lie?

Click to expand...

No I didn't. I believe you have spoken with Muslims who are good people. Same with Jews. What I dismiss as being false are certain narratives that blame Israel for the problems in the middle east. A false history of what has occurred in the past.

And if you didn't experience the depth of the depravity and vile beliefs of Islamists then you dont have a reason to tell me I dont know what I'm talking about. Becauae I'm talking about that kind of mindset and not the mindset of many moderate Muslims.

I mean were the people you were hanging with marching in the streets chanting death to America and death to the Jews?

ThatRobGuy said:

...but that's how this pattern normally goes.
(and let's not pretend the left doesn't have the same propensity

Click to expand...

I quite frankly don't care who is doing it. It's a mindless, knee jerk reaction. Which you've just exhibited yet again:

'This line of argument is moronic'.
'Oh, so you're going to ignore all the times that the left does it'.

No, I'm not. It's not an ignorant right wing 'argument'. It's an ignorant argument. Period.

Hazelelponi said:

But because I disagree with the reaction doesn't make them war criminals. We all know Iran broke the ceasefire first.

Click to expand...

I'll accept a reasonable response to aggression. But Gaza has not been reasonable by any stretch of anyone's imagination.

Bradskii said:

I quite frankly don't care who is doing it. It's a mindless, knee jerk reaction. Which you've just exhibited yet again:

'This line of argument is moronic'.
'Oh, so you're going to ignore all the times that the left does it'.

No, I'm not. It's not an ignorant right wing 'argument'. It's an ignorant argument. Period.

Click to expand...

But, you haven't demonstrated how it's an ignorant argument...

My assertion was that there's a portion of the left that will immediately hitch their wagons to whichever entity opposes a conservative interest.

Are you suggesting that it doesn't occur?

In the past year, we've seen leftist protestors out the streets waving the flag of several different authoritarian and/or deeply corrupt entities merely for the fact that it puts them on the perceived "correct side" of a hot button issue.

What evidence is there that wouldn't gleefully fly the flag of N Korea should they find themselves on the opposite end of a US-Conservative agenda?


They've been willing to fly Hammer & Sickle flags, Cuban flags, Ukrainian Flags, Palestinian Flags, Venezuelan flags, Nicaraguan flags, and now Iranian flags... (all while burning the US flag)

To suggest that they'd gleefully fly a N. Korea flag (if the political conditions were right) isn't exactly a massive leap from what they've already been doing.


That's like me saying "Mike's gotten drunk and puked at the last 3 parties from drinking large amounts of Irish Whiskey, Rye, and Bourbon... at this next party, you better hide that bottle of Scotch because he sees that, I bet he'd drink a bunch and get wasted again"



...and then you telling me "Oh Rob, how ridiculous, there's no evidence that he'd do that...I mean sure, he's done it with 3 different boozes that are similar to Scotch, but never with actual scotch yet, you're being ignorant"

(and then when Mike proceeds to chug Scotch and throw up on the sofa)
"See, I told ya"

"well, why are you so obsessed with how much Mike drinks at parties? This sounds like a 'you problem'"


And I've mentioned before why I have such and interest in such matters.

I've been a good citizen, worked hard, and chipped in my share to the various social safety net programs in this country to pay for my predecessors for when they retire. When I retire, I don't want my future to be in the hands of a generation comprised overly-sensitive, far-left reactionaries who seemingly have no problem scrapping our current system and celebrating systems that we know don't work, merely because it "opposes the conservatives and impresses my friends"

And now we have Khalil doing it at Columbia again, wrapped in the Iranian flag marching and shouting in the street. I'm sure he would wear the N Korian flag too if there was an opportunity to do so.

So he's obviously one of those types.

ThatRobGuy said:

....My assertion was that there's a portion of the left that will immediately hitch their wagons to whichever entity opposes a conservative interest.....

Click to expand...

Bless your heart Rob! Thats the same argument you make anymore on every topic. Skip the actual topic and the characters involved, and go off on a screed about "the left" and their comportment in "the discussion" etc.

durangodawood said:

Bless your heart Rob! Thats the same argument you make anymore on every topic. Skip the actual topic and the characters involved, and go off on a screed about "the left" and their comportment in "the discussion" etc.

Click to expand...

I'd encourage you to click on the quote links and go back to the original post that started the sidebar... I was engaging in the topic until someone tossed in the comment of "I'm more concerned by the problematic regime here in the US" to my response to a different poster pertaining to their comment about "international law".

I really wish people would stop playing the game of accusing people of going "off-topic" when they reply to someone else's off-topic post.

There should be a term for "selective off-topic outrage".

As far as why I feel it's important?
Simple, because the US doesn't have a Bill Clinton in the Democratic party anymore...someone who will put the extreme outliers in the place and govern based on common sense.

Had the Sister Soulja incident happened in the current political climate, all of the Democratic politicians would've pretended it had merit as to not offend the wrong people.

BCP1928 said:

OK, so we're all in mindless lock step on all the political issues. What's your point?

Click to expand...

It's not that all democrats are in mindless lockstep with the most radical left people in their party...

It's that they don't call them out on the carpet, and pretend that those folks have a valid point worth considering.


In my previous post I noted this


The Democrats desperately need another Sister Souljah moment, where a reasonable person on the center left gives a frank and full-throated repudiation of extremes in their own party (rather than coddling)

Clearly the Democrats understand this concept, otherwise they wouldn't have been constantly asking their political opponents "Do you disavow the proud boys?" in every debate. But then when the same is asked of them, they get defensive and pretend it's an unreasonable request.

ThatRobGuy said:

I'd encourage you to click on the quote links and go back to the original post that started the sidebar... I was engaging in the topic until someone tossed in the comment of "I'm more concerned by the problematic regime here in the US" to my response to a different poster pertaining to their comment about "international law".

I really wish people would stop playing the game of accusing people of going "off-topic" when they reply to someone else's off-topic post.

There should be a term for "selective off-topic outrage".

As far as why I feel it's important?
Simple, because the US doesn't have a Bill Clinton in the Democratic party anymore...someone who will put the extreme outliers in the place and govern based on common sense.

Had the Sister Soulja incident happened in the current political climate, all of the Democratic politicians would've pretended it had merit as to not offend the wrong people.

Click to expand...

Ok, you were indeed talking about the topic this time. But somehow it always seems like discussion with you settles into that same groove of "whos being a hypocrite?"

And yes I am OUTRAGED by it! Posivitly apoplectic.

Otoh, you do often provide some really good background info before things go off trail. Do you have a research secretary working for you or something?

durangodawood said:

Ok, you were indeed talking about the topic. But somehow it always seems like discussion with you settles into that same groove of "whos being a hypocrite?"

Click to expand...

You have to admit, if someone starts on International Law and "troublesome regimes", and tosses out something to the effect of "meh, I'm more concerned about this troublesome regime that's right here in in the US"...that's a 60mph fastball right over the plate.

If the expectation of the thread was that everyone had to maintain laser focus on only participants in the Iranian anti-west protests, with no room for deviating, then someone would've thrown the red flag for off-topic before my rebuttal showed up.

durangodawood said:

Otoh, you do often provide some really good background info before things go off trail. Do you have a research secretary working for you or something?

Click to expand...

lol, I enjoy researching things...

But if you'll notice, very rarely am I the "off trail initiator", I'm usually replying to someone else who decided to "casually" toss in some sort of little sidebar comment... and when I reply to the comment, that's when people suddenly become sticklers for "sticking to the topic"

Example:

If there were a thread about how wages needed to rise...

And a conservative person just casually tossed in something about regulatory burdens in a blue city in the middle of their post (as to imply that was the main culprit without directly saying it), if you understandably pounced on that, it wouldn't be fair to blame you for the "side barring"

seeking.IAM said:

The prevailing opinion seems to disagree. I will keep the book in mind, though. Thank you for the recommendation.

Click to expand...

The book draws from statements and written records by the leaders from that actual period. In the years that followed, they revised their statements to improve their standing for posterity. The Emperor, for example, was more concerned over preserving the royal relics than the lives of the citizens.

Japan had a stockpile of planes and weaponry waiting. The situation was worsened by MacArthur lying to DC about the military's readiness for the invasion (they weren't ready; many allied soldiers were finishing their enlistment and it would have been largely conducted by rookies). Nimitz threatened to withdraw his approval to use the Pacific fleet to invade and things were getting really tense.

Off topic, I know, but I found it very enlightening.

Summary of article:


The airstrikes may have ended, but the real battle for Iran’s future is only beginning. Israeli strikes shook the Islamic Republic to its core. Its leadership is bruised, its power structure exposed, and its legitimacy at home deeply eroded.

rjs330 said:

No I didn't. I believe you have spoken with Muslims who are good people. Same with Jews. What I dismiss as being false are certain narratives that blame Israel for the problems in the middle east. A false history of what has occurred in the past.

Click to expand...

The blame falls on the Brits. The Palestinians fought the Mandate, too, sometimes with Jews fighting alongside them, who didn't want a state designed by the Brits either. They weren't fighting "so they could shed every last drop of Jewish blood in order that Mohammed can come back." That is just ignorant bigotry and I don;t like seeing it pushed as Christian doctrine, much less as our national policy.

rjs330 said:

And if you didn't experience the depth of the depravity and vile beliefs of Islamists then you dont have a reason to tell me I dont know what I'm talking about. Becauae I'm talking about that kind of mindset and not the mindset of many moderate Muslims.

Click to expand...

The general man-in-the street impression I got is that the Gaza thing is still regarded as primarily a nationalist struggle, not a religious war.

rjs330 said:

I mean were the people you were hanging with marching in the streets chanting death to America and death to the Jews?

Click to expand...

I'm sure people like that exist there, I've seen them on TV. There are people like that here, too, and some who call for death to Jews who have no great love for Palestinians.

Lukaris said:

The 12-day war will change Iran—but in what direction?

The Islamic Republic will not return to what it was before the Israeli and American airstrikes, but what comes next is uncertain, experts tell Iran International.

www.iranintl.com

Summary of article:


The airstrikes may have ended, but the real battle for Iran’s future is only beginning. Israeli strikes shook the Islamic Republic to its core. Its leadership is bruised, its power structure exposed, and its legitimacy at home deeply eroded.

Click to expand...

And you think that if the Islamic Republic is overthrown the resulting new government will be pro-American? Pro Zionist?