The Holy Peoples and the Treaty

keras said:

Why do people not see the Bible as absolutely clear on the truth of the Lord's holy peoples being in the holy Land before the Return?

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" Holy peoples" would be those who love him?

keras said:

Right
They are the great multitude that John sees in Revelation 7:9, Living Christian peoples, from every tribe, race, nation and language.
Jesus will be revealed to them ; Rev 14:1, 2 Thess 1:6-10

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As I see it....if it's OK to say....

This event also includes those who are dead . Thoses who's names are written in the Book of Life. The Church as a whole, the living and the dead, now made alive.They are the Holy City. Those who have not suffered the second death and are now clothed in white are the " New Jerusalem" the Bride of Christ. It is not land nor a building, it is His Church , His Bride.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth had disappeared, and there was no sea anymore. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. It was prepared like a bride dressed for her husband.

keras said:

Why do people not see the Bible as absolutely clear on the truth of the Lord's holy peoples being in the holy Land before the Return?
Consider Daniel 7:23-25, paralleled by Revelation 13:7, where God's people are defeated by the armies of the Anti-Christ. Where does this happen? We are told in Revelation 11:1-8...in the Holy City, where the Lord was crucified. Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:29-35, also describe this 3 1/2 year period of traumatic testing for the people of the Lord, WHO ARE IN THE HOLY LAND AT THAT TIME. Isaiah 49:8-11, Jeremiah 31:8-9, +
Revelation 12:1-17 is very informative and gives more details of this 3 1/2, 42 month or 1260 day period: that chapter tell us that Satan will be thrown out of the spiritual realm and will come to earth, his angels with him. He pursues the 'woman', that we know must refer to all righteous Christian Israel. Israelites as per Galatians 3:26-29. They are at that time; living in peace and prosperity in the holy Land, as many prophesies describe. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, + The new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

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All of these about Israel, they are the holy peoples, not the church, Daniel knew nothing of the church, he was being told only about Israel, who was God's holy called out peoples in his day. The church will nit be on earth, s God was never telling him about a people who will not even be on earth, of course you guys getting that wrong leads to confusion, that is not on God however, that is on those who do not grasp these factoids oof truth. The Woman is Israel (Gen. 37:9 says so). I have explained Gal. chapter 3 time and again and why it is Paul telling the Gentiles they do not have to be Jew like in order to make heaven, not that we all are one but that we all come unto Christ in ONE MANNER.........By FAITH ALONE. The question or point I always raise that never gets answered is this, IF.......Paul is saying the Jews and Gentiles are now ONE (which he of course is not) then why are there still Males & Females? He said they are all ONE also !!! You will dodge tat however because it blows up your bad theory brother.

keras said:

The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27, are those who remain in the Land, Revelation 12:17. But those who refuse to agree with that treaty, referred to as the Treaty of Death; in Isaiah 28:14-15, will leave the holy Land and be taken to a place of safety, where they will be looked after for 1260 days, in a place prepared by God. Revelation 12:6 & 14 This division of the holy peoples, is also Prophesied in Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:32

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You will admit this word Peace Treaty is just a wild guess right? Its OK I used to use it also. A Covenant is an AGREEMENT, and that does not have to mean peace treaty", it can be any Agreement whatsoever. The MANY are many countries, any other use makes no sense, so this Anti-Christ entity must make an Agreement with Israel and MANY OTHER NATIONS. And since every Beast Kingdom over Israel has also been over nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region (whole earth being spoken about) these Beast ALL ARISE out of the Mediterranean Sea, how do people miss this?

We see the framework already in place for this 7 Year Agreement, it is called the European Neighborhood Policy, Satan can not just get his "MAN" (AC) in place without planning ahead. The E.U. has fir at least 20 years had Agreements in place with Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria and Libya that run in 7 year cycles (2007-2013....2014-2020 etc.) and this can be read on Wikipedia, this is the E.U. who passed out 15 billion dollars to these nations to gain "cooperation" (its like a carrot and stick approach) on their agendas and to try an gain a foothold ahead of Russia & China with these nations who "may someday be invited to join the E.U." or as the text says to be possible future Member States.

So, now does the "AGREEMENT POSSIBILITY" seem different than you supposed? What about the Gog and Magog war driving Israel into the arms of the E.U. (Anti-Christ led faction) Nation? Israel joining the (Agreement) E.U. makes perfect sense, they play Soccer/Football in the Euro groups, not in the Asia groups. So, who are THE MANY then? The other nations named here. He will conquer not just Israel in Dan. 11:40-43 but MANY COUNTRIES to get at Israel (Syria, Lebanon & Jordan no doubt) then all of North Africa. Lets look at the E.U. Map & the European Neighborhood Policy Map Nations. Then lets look at Old Rome circa 117 AD. Its looks exactly the same, once the Anti-Christ Conquers Israel and THE MANY.




Turkey is a part of the King of the South factions, probably with Egypt, and they thus get conquered here also as Dan. 11:40-43's MANY COUNTRIES. So, once this AC/Beast conquers everything seen here save Edom, Moab and Ammon (Mountainous areas of Central and Southern Jordan where the Jews flee unto) we see why God stated the 10 (Complete Europe Reunited) would ARISE out of the Fourth Beasts Head, its like saying Papa had a baby that looked just like him. SEE BELOW. Same Map !!


The HEADWOUND of the Fourth Beast is thus HEALED, once the E.U. Anti-Christ conquers Israel and THE MANY [other nations] on the Mediterranean Sea. The Romans conquered all the earth meant all the earth on the Mediterranean Sea, where all the Beast arose from. Likewise the 5th Beast (the Little Horn MAN who speaks) will only rule over the Mediterranean Sea Region also. The New World (1/3) will be burning, the Old World will be hit with Plagues, God is not going to burn up the area where Jesus will be ruling from for 1000 years, to me that just people not thinking things through. Dan. 11:32 has passed. Zech. 14:1-2 is future, you conflate the scriptures as being the same, they are not.

keras said:

God is 'opening the eyes and unstopping the ears' of a few

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keras said:

Why do people not see the Bible as absolutely clear on the truth of the Lord's holy peoples being in the holy Land before the Return?

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truth: a few

keras said:

This is all sheer unbiblical nonsense.
To even think the Jewish people then or today are the exclusive people of God, is serious error.

There is no scripture that says God will take His Church to heaven. We will live in peace and prosperity in all of the Holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16

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That would be you, as per usual, for one, the bible was about Israel, not the Church, you can not even fathom that at all can you? Now go to Zech. 13:6-7 and see again where God says his sheep will be scattered, that happens when Jesus is killed in the house of his friends.

keras said:

Daniel 7:23...the Fourth Kingdom will devour the whole earth.....

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Which proves 100% you do not understand Prophesy.

38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold(Babylon who never ruled the whole world, even though the text says WHEREEVER THE CHILDREN OF MEN DWELL, because the prophesy is only about the Mediterranean Sea Region and Israel's MASTERS or DOMINATING POWER NATIONS, conquering Israel.......the bible is about Israel, not you, me or the Gentiles. Keras thinks God needs to conquer the WHOLE WORLD to get Israel to repent, smh).

39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. ( This of course did not happen, Greece never even conquered over half of the Mediterranean Sea Region, so did God lie? No!! The Anti-Christ/Little Horn will have Assyrian blood be born in "Greece" and come to power in the E.U. (out of the Fourth Beasts Head of 10 which means Completion or the Complete E.U. Revived. So, Rome did conquer every square inch of the Mediterranean Coastline, and so will the Little Horn as seen in his wars in Dan. 11:40-43.)

No man is gong to conquer the whole world, you not getting what that means is on you. Seeing English words and not studying deeper, is your fault brother, you need to actually study what these things really mean. Believing one man is going to conquer China, Russia and the New World is just not reality. All because you see ALL THE EARTH, and never do a deep dive to see it means the dirt/earth being spoken about, not the world. And the 7 Heads tells us of each kingdom, and none of the first 6 conquered the WHOLE WORLD did they? Neither will the AC/Little Horn. His mission is to destroy Israel.

keras said:

Revelation 13 says he will. Excepting the Holy people who will be kept in a place of safety. Rev 12:14

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Again, you refuse to follow the common sense precedent set in Dan. 2 and in Dan 7, they were NEVER TALKING about World Wide Kingdoms, just a select set of lands around the Mediterranean Sea which the bible calls the Great Sea. Thus all the Bests arose out of the (ONE) Great Sea, thus when any biblical passages are talking about THE EARTH it is talking about a certain region around the Great Sea, thus Rome indeed conquered the "WHOLE EARTH" as will the AC/Little Horn and the E.U. (10 = Completion)







I can not believe modern day guys with computers still take these English translations and run with them as the 100% Gospel facts instead of putting in the grunt work to come up with a practical understanding. So, you are telling me the below passage doesn't set a precedent that God is telling us about ALL THE EARTH/GROUND being designated by God in these Prophetic Utterances about Israel?

2:39 And after 870 thee shall arise 6966 z8748 another 317 kingdom 4437 inferior 772 to x4481 thee, y4481 and another 317 third 8523 kingdom 4437 of x1768 brass, 5174 which x1768 shall bear rule 7981 z8748 over all 3606 the earth. 772

2:40 And the fourth 7244 kingdom 4437 shall be 1934 z8748 strong 8624 as iron: 6523 forasmuch as x3606 x6903 x1768 iron 6523 breaketh in pieces 1855 z8683 and subdueth 2827 z8751 all 3606 [things]: and as y6903 iron 6523 that x1768 breaketh 7490 z8750 all 3606 these, 459 shall it break in pieces 1855 z8681 and bruise. 7490 z8748

1.) #3606 כֹּל kol (Aramaic) {kole}

corresponding to H3605; TWOT - 2789; n m
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) all, whole, the whole
1a) the whole of, all
1b) every, any, none
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

(Chaldee); corresponding to H3605:—all, any, + (forasmuch) as, + be- (for this) cause, every, + no (manner, -ne), + there (where) -fore, + though, what (where, who) -soever, (the) whole.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)


2.) #0772 אֲרַע 'ara` (Aramaic) {ar-ah'}

corresponding to H0776; TWOT - 2610; n m
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) earth, world, ground
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

(Chaldee); corresponding to H0776; the earth; by implication (figuratively) low:—earth, inferior.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

So, let us use common sense AND Precedent, who or what was being spoken about as ALL THE EARTH in verse 39? Greece the 3rd Kingdom ONLY, we can all agree on that right. And in verse 40 Rome only was being spoken about before the 10 toes (horns arise in Dann. 7 which = the Complete E.U.) come on the scene in vs. 41. And in vs. 40 where it says Rome (4th Kingdom) breaks ALL [things] the word thing was added by the English translators, so its not really here, just ALL or KOL. the first word we translated above. It was an unneeded repeat of earth (ARA), because that had already been established, this was a prophesy about the ARA or EARTH surrounding the Mediterranean Sea where these Beasts all arose from. You do agree that Greece nor Rome ever ruled over all the Earth/World RIGHT? Not even all the known world, as in India, China and the Scythians (far north or modern day Russians) was ruled by Greece or Rome, so the PRECEDENT in talking about these Beasts had been set 2500 plus years ago in Dann. 2 and Dann. 7. These Beasts were local Beasts to a certain area and all were involved in one main thing from God's perspective, chastising Israel in order to bring them back in line, or in order to get them to repent.

So, when John is told about the Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast/Man of Sin in Revelation we understand this to mean ONLY a certain area of land around the Great Sea being spoken about, around Israel.

Revelation 13:1 ¶ And 2532 I stood 2476 z5681 upon 1909 the x3588 sand 285 of the x3588 sea, 2281 and 2532 saw 1492 z5627 a beast 2342 rise up 305 z5723 out of 1537 the x3588 sea, 2281 having 2192 z5723 seven 2033 heads 2776 and 2532 ten 1176 horns, 2768 and 2532 upon 1909 his y846 x848 horns 2768 ten 1176 crowns, 1238 and 2532 upon 1909 his y846 x848 heads 2776 the name 3686 of blasphemy. 988

#2281 θάλασσα thalassa {thal'-as-sah}

probably prolonged from G0251; TDNT - n/a; n f
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) the sea
1a) used of the sea in general
1b) used specifically of the Mediterranean Sea or the Red Sea
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

So, the Greek word used here is specifically referring unto the Mediterranean Sea Region. Hmmm.

13:2 And 2532 the x3588 beast 2342 which 3739 I saw 1492 z5627 was 2258 z5713 like y3664 unto x3664 a leopard, 3917 and 2532 his y846 x848 feet 4228 were as 5613 [the feet] of a bear, 715 and 2532 his y846 x848 mouth 4750 as 5613 the mouth 4750 of a lion: 3023 and 2532 the x3588 dragon 1404 gave 1325 z5656 him 846 his y846 x848 power, 1411 and 2532 his y846 x848 seat, 2362 and 2532 great 3173 authority. 1849

So, these are the same Beasts Daniel spoke of, except here we get all seven or the Egyptian & Assyrian Empires added unto Daniel's 5 (including the AC).

13:7 And 2532 it was given 1325 z5681 unto him 846 to make 4160 z5658 war 4171 with 3326 the x3588 saints, 40 and 2532 to overcome 3528 z5658 them: 846 and 2532 power 1849 was given 1325 z5681 him 846 over 1909 all 3956 kindreds, 5443 and 2532 tongues, 1100 and 2532 nations. 1484

1.) Saint mean separated ones, it can't mean the Church because we are not on earth. Plus, Jesus said the Gates of Hell would not overcome his Church, this can only be Jews separated unto God/holy ones.

Kindreds, Tongues and Nations or Ethos is referring unto local clans.

This Beast rules over ALL THE EARTH or SOIL being spoken about.

keras said:

Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 13:0, say:- he will rule over the whole earth.
Your 'fixed in concrete' beliefs; trip you up.

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And I destroyed that thesis didn't I?

keras said:

In your wild imagination!
The world is now almost entirely populated. I live in New Zealand and I expect to be just as affected by all the end time events as the European Union.
Which is a joke, as the EU has nothing to do with end time Prophesied events.

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I thought you were going to move to Israel after a solar event in your scenario depopulates Israel of its current Jewish population?

The EU will be the kingdom of the beast-king of Revelation 13. The EU is the end times manifestation of the Roman Empire, the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7 that the ten kings and little horn will emerge out of.

keras said:

Daniel 7:23-25 & Revelation 13, make it clear the 'beast' kingdom will be worldwide.

Your 'charts' always fail to mention the event which will commence all the Prophesied end time things.
The great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, an event similar in magnitude to Noah's Flood.

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keras, in Daniel 40-44 there will be attacks on the beast-king from king of the South, king of the North, kings of the East (see my chart below).

The beast-king, dictator of the EU will be the king of the West. The EU (with likely allies of the U..S. and Canada) will be the dominant kingdom in the world at that time in Revelation 13, but not a worldwide kingdom.