A lot of controdictions/help please

stevenb6 said:

Believer, also becoming more sensible lately

Q. If it's true and God has a plan, how can some still end up in hell? Frustrating part is they contradict each other yet I know it does happen. I know some will say because people would disobey God, my argument is that anyone who knew the consequences would never make that decision. And if so maybe it wasn't the greatest plan? It's like saying God is in control but only when its good or convenient and in that case implies he's not fully in control

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You don't think it's a great plan for God to provide the opportunity for all people to have eternal life by way of having His Son die for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2)? How do you know that anyone who knows the consequences would never make the decision to disobey God? I think you are underestimating how badly people want to do their own thing rather than have to answer to God. They want that so badly that they are willing to deal with any consequences of that decision.

stevenb6 said:

Q. Is it possible our mistakes are purposefully done?

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No. What mistakes are you talking about? Mistakes are things that are not purposely done. That's what the word mistake means. To do something that you didn't purposely mean to do.

stevenb6 said:

It says that God also knows everything before it happens, even goes deep as to say he even know the decisions we will make implying he knew we would make mistakes, even the missionaries visiting lately believe that Adam had no choice but to fall for a greater plan

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Sins aren't mistakes. Adam knew what he was doing. It was not a mistake. He knew that God told him and Eve not to eat from the tree. It was his choice and not something he did by accident. Sure, he was inevitably going to sin at some point because he was not perfect and was not spiritually incorruptible. But, that doesn't mean God made him do anything. God knowing things ahead of time does not mean He determined for those things to happen.

What missionaries Are visiting?

free will, we can all go against God. He is in control, he won’t force us, the Lord knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the ungodly will perish. Psaim one. Don’t blame God.

Adam had a choice. He chose his wife to be with her. Gods plan to make the world happened after they sinned. He knew they would but didn’t force them. He knows but doesn’t make it happen.

Adam and Eve were made “very good” by God’s standard of “very good”, which I would say: “The best two made beings could be made.” Christ is perfect, but Christ is not a made being, but deity, so God cannot make clones of a perfect Christ.

Adam and Eve lacked one very important attribute which could keep them from sinning, but that attribute is something even God cannot gift them, because it has to be humbly accepted of their own free will, let me explain:

Unfortunately, sin has purpose and appears to be needed for all mature adults (which Adam and Eve showed themselves and us) to help those who are willing to fulfill their earthly objective. The objective drives everything.

Starting with God is Love (the epitome of Love), which means God is totally unselfish and is not doing stuff for His own sake, but is doing everything for the sake of man, which is also God’s desire and might be referred to as, His sake.

God would be doing or allowing everything to help humans who are just willing to accept His help to fulfill their earthly objective.

So, God allows evil to happen, to help humans, but God also allowed Christ to go to the cross to help humans.

There is really nothing you (a created being) can “do” to help the Creator, but you can allow, of your own free will, God to help you, which is God’s desire, since God is a huge giver of gifts.

You can take any command given in scripture and have Biblical support for calling it “Man’s objective” since God said this is what man is to do, but there is one (more like two) commands all other commands are under.

Man’s objective is found in the God given Mission statement of: Loving God (and secondly Loving others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy. To fulfill that mission man must first obtain Godly type Love which will make man like God Himself in that man will Love like God Loves. Would becoming like God Himself not be the greatest gift we could receive?

The objective is not to never ever sin, but to obtain this Godly type Love is the first of man’s objectives.

The Adam and Eve story helps us understand. Most people go through a time in which they ask: “How could a Loving God allow such a thing”, which means “why does God not start us all out in a Garden type situation without, needy people, limited resources, death, and questions about His existence?”

What we can do is thank Adam and Eve for showing us and them that what we might consider the ideal situation is a lousy situation for man to fulfill his earthly objective. Adam and Eve as our very best all human representatives did not fulfill the objective while sinless in the Garden and really could not. The situation after sinning outside the Garden did provide a way to fulfill the objective.

There are just somethings even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), like God cannot make another Christ since Christ is not a created being. The big inability for us is to be created with instinctive (programmed) Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also, if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real likely alternatives (for humans on earth those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)

This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).

This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.

All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them, burdens them to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus (Luke 7: 36-50) and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant (this includes hell), so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).

This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing mature adult individuals to see, receive, give, experience, accept and grow Godly type Love. All these tragedies provide opportunities for Love, but that does not mean we go around causing opportunities, since we are to be ceasing these opportunities (there are plenty of opportunities) to show/experience Love.

As far as God's foreknowledge:

Time is totally “relative” for God and for the last 100 years now, time has been shown to be relative and nothing has even gone against the Theory of Relativity.

Think for a moment about this: If you got an actual video recording of a free will choice a man in China made one hours from now, that choice is set in history, so he cannot make any other choice, yet does that mean the choice will not be a free will choice? You cannot get in touch with him to change anything in the next hour. What you have is the history of his choice ahead of time and history does not keep the choice from being a free will choice.

stevenb6 said:

Believer, also becoming more sensible lately

Q. If it's true and God has a plan, how can some still end up in hell? Frustrating part is they contradict each other yet I know it does happen. I know some will say because people would disobey God, my argument is that anyone who knew the consequences would never make that decision. And if so maybe it wasn't the greatest plan? It's like saying God is in control but only when its good or convenient and in that case implies he's not fully in control

Q. Is it possible our mistakes are purposefully done? It says that God also knows everything before it happens, even goes deep as to say he even know the decisions we will make implying he knew we would make mistakes, even the missionaries visiting lately believe that Adam had no choice but to fall for a greater plan

Since looking at things from a larger picture, I feel my like problems that have weighed on me so heavy seem comical.

I've just also had this theory. How can we learn a lesson if we have all the answers? That would take away the lesson
Basically people will make mistakes until they learn to correct them and if we are never taught how there is no correction. (Unless you add into consideration the cross).

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I'm assuming you wrote this presupposing a connection between both questions.

Both are answerable in something I wrote on another site just today, for someone who worried that their loved ones who have passed on, are necessarily going to Hell. This is not about the reality of Hell —just saying, in case someone wants to sidetrack the OP.

stevenb6 said:

Yeah, I guess after reading your answers and my questions feel like this is more of a psychological thing, plainly put, for them to have known the consequences and still disobeyed means they hear eternal hellfire burning alive for a temporary pleasure that will be gone very quickly sounds like a good idea to me. It's just not rational. I feel like people who think religiously neglect things like common sense a lot
People make mistakes, even when they do something that is wrong in their mind it is right. There seems to be a lot of talk in forgiveness in christianity but not in reality.

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I'm sorry, but I can't follow what you're saying. If people act irrationally, whose fault is that? Theirs or God's? What more should God do than offer them eternal life?

stevenb6 said:

Another one that came to mind, if god loves everyone why are only a few chosen? Matthew 22:14 and also Matthew 7:13-14 broad is the way that leads to destruction, and further says narrows is the way that leads to life and few find it. Doesn't sound very loving to me idk

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It's not loving for God to offer salvation to all people?

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

It's not loving for God to send His Son to die for the sins of the whole world?

1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Don't blame God for people making the wrong choice to not accept His offer of salvation by way of the sacrifice of His Son. Do you not believe in free will? God doesn't force anyone to do anything because that wouldn't be love.

stevenb6 said:

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” So God chose to make the test by making it with the most crafty creature ever made? why would he do that?

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God wants people to put Him above everyone and everything else. So, why should His test of people's loyalty to Him be easy? What would that prove?

stevenb6 said:

God: worship me or I will destroy you
Nebuchadnezzar: yeah what he said ...
see what I mean?

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No, I don't see what you mean at all. I think you have the wrong perspective of God.

stevenb6 said:

Believer, also becoming more sensible lately

Q. If it's true and God has a plan, how can some still end up in hell? Frustrating part is they contradict each other yet I know it does happen. I know some will say because people would disobey God, my argument is that anyone who knew the consequences would never make that decision. And if so maybe it wasn't the greatest plan? It's like saying God is in control but only when its good or convenient and in that case implies he's not fully in control

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Counter argument: It's against the law to drink and drive, and people are aware of the consequences and know full well what will happen based on what the law says, and how such an activity is destructive--the risk it poses to themselves, to others. Yet, many do it anyway.

We see, all the time, that knowing the consequences of an action doesn't necessarily stop everyone from doing it anyway. Human beings are weird, or more accurately, human beings are sinful. And it's not rational, St. Paul tells us how irrational it is when he writes, "The good I want to do, I don't do; and the evil I don't want to do, I do anyway".

stevenb6 said:

Q. Is it possible our mistakes are purposefully done? It says that God also knows everything before it happens, even goes deep as to say he even know the decisions we will make implying he knew we would make mistakes, even the missionaries visiting lately believe that Adam had no choice but to fall for a greater plan

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That is not a common Christian belief. That is a perspective held by a very tiny minority of Christians within a very particular theological tradition. The majority of Christians acknowledge that Adam was entirely free to obey or disobey--he disobeyed. Did God know? Sure, did Adam have no choice? Oh he definitely had a choice, and he made the wrong choice.

Our mistakes are not inevitable. Such an idea is a false doctrine known as Fatalism, it's a view that was common among certain Pagans in the ancient world, but Christians have always rejected it as unbiblical, untrue, and as Pagan nonsense. Human beings are actually responsible for their mistakes, God didn't plan our lives out like a mathematician plots the course of a graph.

God's infinite knowledge is just that--knowledge. Imagine you and I go out to eat lunch together, you look at the menu, make your choice, and you eat your lunch. Well, the next day I invent a time machine, and I go back to before we went out to lunch. Does my knowledge of what you had for lunch mean I have determined what you'd have for lunch? Or do I simply know this, because I was there when you had lunch.

God, who is not only everywhere, but is every-when, knows all things. He exists tomorrow in the same way that He exists yesterday, and the same way He exists right now. He knows what you will do, because He is already there after you have done it, is there when you do it, just as much as He was there before you did it.

stevenb6 said:

Since looking at things from a larger picture, I feel my like problems that have weighed on me so heavy seem comical.

I've just also had this theory. How can we learn a lesson if we have all the answers? That would take away the lesson
Basically people will make mistakes until they learn to correct them and if we are never taught how there is no correction. (Unless you add into consideration the cross).

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Well, for one, we don't have all the answers. For another, it is possible to learn even without a mistake. Hopefully most of us learn not to kill other people without having to make the mistake of killing someone and suffering the consequences of such a tragic mistake.

But yes, we do make mistakes and learn from them--as least, hopefully we do. And, of course, redemption is, in part, about this. That is to say, there is forgiveness and mercy. Without mercy we wouldn't learn from our mistakes, and then grow--the mistake would leave us lost, afraid, and doomed.

-CryptoLutheran

stevenb6 said:

Believer, also becoming more sensible lately

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Both of these are important. I encourage you to keep it up.

stevenb6 said:

Q. If it's true and God has a plan, how can some still end up in hell?

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The Bible assures us...
The grave... which is where everyone goes when they die Ecclesiastes 3:20... with the exception of these, will be emptied Revelation 20:13.
After which the place of the dead - the grave, along with death, will be destroyed forever. Revelation 20:14 Gone. 1 Corinthians 15:26; Revelation 21:4, 5

stevenb6 said:

Frustrating part is they contradict each other yet I know it does happen. I know some will say because people would disobey God, my argument is that anyone who knew the consequences would never make that decision. And if so maybe it wasn't the greatest plan? It's like saying God is in control but only when its good or convenient and in that case implies he's not fully in control

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God's "plan" is for man to choose his destiny. Either life, or death. Deuteronomy 30:19
That was God's plan... I should really say, part of the "plan", from the beginning, and remains the same today.
The tree, in the middle of the garden served as a basis for Adam and Eve to decide whether or not they wanted to serve God, with the result being life, or death. Genesis 2:9, 16, 17

Adam and Eve chose death, by choosing not to obey God.
We today, have the same choice. Everyone does... It's our God given freedom of choice.

So, yes, God is in full control, since it is his will that only the righteous live - that is, people that recognize that God is worthy of the honor, and power, and glory, since he created all things, and gave all life. Revelation 4:11

This is absolutely important, since one who doesn't recognize that God has the right to determine the standards of right and wrong, will want to do whatever they want, and will oppose God, and righteousness, resulting in what we see today.
So God is actually sifting those out, in order to give life only to the righteous.

stevenb6 said:

Q. Is it possible our mistakes are purposefully done? It says that God also knows everything before it happens, even goes deep as to say he even know the decisions we will make implying he knew we would make mistakes, even the missionaries visiting lately believe that Adam had no choice but to fall for a greater plan

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This is a misconception, as is seen from Genesis 22:12, and other texts.

stevenb6 said:

Since looking at things from a larger picture, I feel my like problems that have weighed on me so heavy seem comical.

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Sometimes I laugh at myself too.

stevenb6 said:

I've just also had this theory. How can we learn a lesson if we have all the answers? That would take away the lesson
Basically people will make mistakes until they learn to correct them and if we are never taught how there is no correction.

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That's true.
By God allowing time, we learn a lot. 2 Peter 3:9

stevenb6 said:

(Unless you add into consideration the cross).

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What do you mean?

stevenb6 said:

@Spiritual Jew I mean to me it's plain as day what i'm saying and how it has validity, when you read through the lines. It's not perspective either, it's realization. You said what more could he do that offer them eternal life, for me personally I live with regrets a lot I guess. So in my mind, it wasnt clear cut. I had thought I was doing what I was supposed to being a christian that actually didn't help at all.

Like... blind people can't see. Cause they are blind... just saying people who do not know god, don't even know the error in their ways.

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They might be blind now, but it doesn't mean they never knew God, though. Read this...

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

stevenb6 said:

These things are only clear to people who know god. how is someone who has never heard his word know what John 3:16 says. Or understand how to respond to religious leaders. ETC.

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Everyone has at least some knowledge of God because, as I showed in the passage I just quoted above "the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

All our seeming contradictions are sometimes like Job's friend's. They are based on our speculation and limited knowledge. We think we know enough to understand but in reality we are not getting the whole picture. Paul in Ephesians prayed that the saints would comprehend God's love, but there is much we do not understand. In the past I argued with God over some things. I laugh now but it is not a great idea to stay in that frame of mind very long. You can ask questions though and God will answer many of them. Hopefully you won't have many gaps. All I can say for sure is that the justice of God is born out of love and truth.

Here is something that I read about man's purpose. "Paul says in verse 10 of Ephesians 3, “To the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.” Why are we on the earth today? Our purpose is to display the wisdom of God to Satan and the principalities and powers. God does not go directly to Satan and show him His wisdom, He points to us. Source: Man's Purpose on Earth — Bob Yandian Ministries

Our faith is tested, our faith shows the wisdom, the power and love of God to the devil. It must highly irritate Satan that after getting man's deed for all souls from Adam, that he lost it in those that accept Jesus. Even worse, through Christ we have Jesus' name and authority and even our position is above the angels. All because Jesus defeated Satan as a man and gave himself for us.

Hebrews 2:9 says, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.”

My biggest frustration with God has been why won't he act more. It took me some years to learn that he is waiting for us. I would not worry so much about who is going to hell and instead set yourself to help others to go to heaven.

Here is a second scripture. God works in us to do of his good pleasure. It does not really say what it is specifically but as another wrote earlier in this thread about love, that is where I would start. So to me his good pleasure is to demonstrate his love, his character and fruit that just emanates Jesus.

Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Remember too that nothing gets done in the flesh. God gives the increase yet we are his ambassadors. God bless

stevenb6 said:

Believer, also becoming more sensible lately

Q. If it's true and God has a plan, how can some still end up in hell?

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Lucifer - created sinless AND created with free will - chose failure as we see in Isaiah 14 and Ezek 28
Adam and Eve - created sinless AND created with free will - chose failure as we see in Gen 3.
The "many" of Matt 7 are choosing failure as Christ points out. All have free will.

But in Rev 12 we see that 2/3 (the majority) of Angels chose NOT to sin.
And the FEW of Matt 7 - choose eternal life according to Christ.

stevenb6 said:

Frustrating part is they contradict each other yet I know it does happen.

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God has a plan whereby "whosoever will" may come. But not a plan of the form "I turn everyone into robots". That is not a contradictory position

stevenb6 said:

I know some will say because people would disobey God, my argument is that anyone who knew the consequences would never make that decision.

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Adam and Eve were told that death was the certain result of a certain action - and they chose that action anyway supposing that somehow it would be good for them.

Psalms 50 says that when God delays his judgment -- people start thinking that maybe His warnings can be ignored.

stevenb6 said:

And if so maybe it wasn't the greatest plan? It's like saying God is in control but only when its good or convenient and in that case implies he's not fully in control

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God Himself dies on the cross - suffering the full pain and torture of the second death in Rev 20 due every lost sinner - just so "the few" of Matt 7 can choose life.

He has a lot of skin in that game.

stevenb6 said:

Q. Is it possible our mistakes are purposefully done? It says that God also knows everything before it happens, even goes deep as to say he even know the decisions we will make implying he knew we would make mistakes,

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True - He knew it all.

stevenb6 said:

even the missionaries visiting lately believe that Adam had no choice but to fall

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false. Read Gen 2 and 3 -- it is clear that he had a choice.

God knew man would fall , God knew He would endure extreme second-death torture to Himself on the cross to pay for every single person's sin... each sin.

Not the same thing as "God wanted it"

stevenb6 said:

for a greater plan

Since looking at things from a larger picture, I feel my like problems that have weighed on me so heavy seem comical.

I've just also had this theory. How can we learn a lesson if we have all the answers? That would take away the lesson
Basically people will make mistakes until they learn to correct them and if we are never taught how there is no correction. (Unless you add into consideration the cross).

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Adam and Eve started sinless - not flawed and needing to learn the lesson of obedience

stevenb6 said:

@Richard T "All I can say for sure is that the justice of God is born out of love and truth."

Implying that it's truth would having first meant it wasn't concealed and hidden in and impossible test. It also implies that God is who he claims to be and I'm finding him to be none of those things.

It's more like damned if you do damned if you don't. If by somehow you understand this soon enough to escape hard lessons it's more like a coin toss than anything.

Probably coming off existential crisis-y but honestly I know there is a God, I've never believed him to be good though or any of the other things he claims to be.

In all the years trying to learn more about him he may as well not even be in the equation because there is nothing spiritual about anything I've learned, it's the same as a physical and unforgiving circumstance.

I do appreciate this forum though because I do wanna learn more guess maybe just not finding the answers I'd hoped for

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I am glad you found the forum and I appreciate your sharing. I pray you never give up trying to work though your situation. That you can find that God is loving and have a greater understanding of His ways. I was pretty stuck for sometimes because my involvement was limited to a certain church. But when I was more desperate and reached out to churches and friends that really seemed to have a greater love and the power of God to go with it, it really changed my life. There can be lots of impediments in our past, our families, our need of inner healing, our logical and intellectual reservations etc. At some point though a breakthrough can occur. I pray too that yours is soon.

stevenb6 said:

Believer, also becoming more sensible lately

Q. If it's true and God has a plan, how can some still end up in hell? Frustrating part is they contradict each other yet I know it does happen. I know some will say because people would disobey God, my argument is that anyone who knew the consequences would never make that decision. And if so maybe it wasn't the greatest plan? It's like saying God is in control but only when its good or convenient and in that case implies he's not fully in control

Q. Is it possible our mistakes are purposefully done? It says that God also knows everything before it happens, even goes deep as to say he even know the decisions we will make implying he knew we would make mistakes, even the missionaries visiting lately believe that Adam had no choice but to fall for a greater plan

Since looking at things from a larger picture, I feel my like problems that have weighed on me so heavy seem comical.

I've just also had this theory. How can we learn a lesson if we have all the answers? That would take away the lesson
Basically people will make mistakes until they learn to correct them and if we are never taught how there is no correction. (Unless you add into consideration the cross).

Click to expand...

I think you're at least close when you suggest we need options in order to learn. I just wouldn't say that we must fail in order to learn. We can learn simply from viewing the options and then choosing responsibly, considering the ill effects of taking the wrong choice.

I'm not a fatalist--I believe in free choice. Though God knows all of the possibllities He has given free agents an opportunity to participate in His world. So God has chosen to react to the choices of free agents. We didn't have to fall, but did. And so we learn now from our failures.

Judgment isn't just pure rationality, such as making an appropriate decision after weighing the consequences. If that was true, nobody would ever fail. It's just that some consider what it would be like to resist cooperation with God, going it independently. And then, making that choice, a whole world is created where the negative effects of bad choices are considered desirable, despite the threat of negative effects.

God is resisted as if He is wrong to impose His way. So resisting Him is not weighed for its consequences, but rather, for the undsirability of caving to a "Dictator."

God becomes, in effect, undesirable. In this case, Salvation takes place out of love for God, as opposed to the choice to see Him as a Dictator.

But in reality, God has, in love, given Man the opportunity to be free in cooperation with Him or free from Him. God did the opposite of demanding cooperation with Him, imposing it upon the will or using coercive means to manipulate our choices. Some may ask why God gave even the possibility of bad choices? It was His decision to make, quite simply.

stevenb6 said:

all through today i'm having extremely awesome revelations

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God encourages us. So, if stuff is getting you down, that likely is not what we need to be thinking and talking about.

stevenb6 said:

I just have the total feeling that everything is completely fine and operating as it should and how there is a greater plan for our lives and things of that nature.

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Have you read how things went for Joseph? > Genesis 37-50.

stevenb6 said:

Still working on being less pessimistic.

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And, of course, we have how things went for Jesus, on the cross. There is all the good that Jesus did, while still on the cross and dying. And then in His resurrection He came out with so much more and better than He had while on this earth.

So, it is good simply to trust Him.

I might be able to give you explanations about your questions. But there is reality. Jesus told us about reality. Yes, there is God who is so good more than we are capable of realizing now . . . the way we are. Our main problem is how we are > this can keep us from benefitting from all the good which is possible with God. He is not our problem!!

But God is good and He is love. And there is hell and judgment. That's reality.

There is Satan, and "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2). This evil spirit is what is so horrible. Satan can get you thinking and worrying about if somehow God is a problem. But the problem is sin and Satan's evil nasty spirit of selfishness which "works" in selfish people, and there is really nasty stuff in Satan's kingdom, of arguing and fear and complaining and unforgiveness and anger and frustration and bitterness and depression. This is anti-love stuff; so do not trust what this stuff can have us thinking and how we can see things in this stuff. But trust God to get rid of it and get us into how love has us seeing things.

And in His love we have His creativity for how to love each person.

And even optimism can fall short of this. Jesus is our way.