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Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Keep the faith until the end?

Spiritual Jew

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It is exactly that. People who claim salvation can be lost are saying Christ has not done enough for them on the cross.
Nonsense. We are required to acknowledge that there's nothing (no work) we can do in addition to what He has already done. Putting our faith in Him that only His blood can save us and cover our sins is not a case of earning our salvation. How can acknowledging our sins and admitting that we can't do anything to save ourselves be a case of claiming that anything more needs to be done to provide salvation?

Scripture like the following warns people about maintaining the faith and trust in Christ in order to avoid being lost and departing from God, but you would prefer that believers ignore the warnings scripture gives to us.

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

But keep worrying about your salvation. Keep worrying whether you live a life good enough to enter Heaven. You have to constantly fear where ever you will spent eternity. You won't know until after your death. Like Islam and all the false religions.
I'm not worried about it, buddy, but I sure am not just going to ignore the warnings to "take heed" that I don't allow "an evil heart of unbelief" to develop in me "in departing from the living God". I'm not going to ignore that I'm responsible to "hold the beginning of" my "confidence stedfast unto the end". I'm not going to ignore that we should "exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin". You, on the other hand, don't think it's necessary to do any of those things.

But I have assurance in Christ and His perfect work on the cross, and His promises to us.
You are responsible to keep that assurance in Christ "unto the end".
 
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Spiritual Jew

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It amazes me how many Christians don't understand the cross.
It amazes me how many Christians don't understand human responsibility to put our trust in Jesus and what He accomplished on the cross.
 
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ARBITER01

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Hebrews 10 does not teach that salvation can be lost.

EDIT: Hebrews 6 teaches that a born again Christian can leave the faith.

Esau lost his birthright as a Jew, what makes you think that Christians can't do the same?

Again, the word that needs to be used describing this situation is "betrayal."
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Romans 11:9 does not teach that salvation can be lost. The passage is primarily about God's sovereign plan concerning the Jewish people and their relationship to the covenant. It uses the analogy of an olive tree to illustrate how God can remove some branches (unbelieving Jews) and graft in others (believing Gentiles).
I think you meant Romans 11:19. I assume you understand that someone being grafted in to the olive tree represents someone having faith and being saved? Read this text carefully.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Notice verses 21 and 22 here. Paul is talking here to saved Gentiles represented by the branches from the wild olive tree that were grafted in to the natural olive tree that had natural branches cut off from it (unbelieving Jews). So, the wild branches (believing Gentiles) were grafted in with the remaining natural branches (believing Jews). And he was telling the Gentile believers that just as God didn't spare most of the natural branches (unbelieving Jews) who were cut off because of their unbelief, the same would happen to them if they did not continue to believe. It would've been pointless for Paul to say "toward thee goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off" to them if it wasn't possible for them to lose their faith and be cut off just like the unbelieving Jews were.
 
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Bro.T

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Are we to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure?
Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil. Many who teach eternal security teach that once a man is saved no matter how wicked he becomes he is still saved.

Thus the teaching “once saved always saved”. Then you asked them what are you saved from? Or how did you obtain your salvation? And most cannot answer these questions. Some even say that sense I have been “saved” I am living a sinless life.

(1John:1:10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. According to bible you can’t be living a sinless life, because if you make such a statement, you just lied.

Paul said in (1 Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means.

Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.
 
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TruthInLight

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Thus the teaching “once saved always saved”. Then you asked them what are you saved from? Or how did you obtain your salvation? And most cannot answer these questions. Some even say that sense I have been “saved” I am living a sinless life.

(1John:1:10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. According to bible you can’t be living a sinless life, because if you make such a statement, you just lied.

There's also these passages/scriptures.

Proverbs 20:9
Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

Jeremiah 17:9-10
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
 
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Bro.T

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Also Paul says in Colossians 1: 23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So what happen if you do not continue in the faith, because you are not grounded and your hope of the gospel is not strong. A person might give up. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).
 
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Mercy Shown

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There's more to salvation than just having a ticket to heaven. It means being saved from the bondage of sin and the ability to reach new heights of sanctification through the Holy Spirit. In my opinion if one doesn't proactively want to grow in love towards God, there's not much point in them being a Christian. Salvation is a daily experience of spiritual growth rather than just a one time event.

If one is asked what makes you a Christian, the answer should be something like; "I want to be and do what God wants, I want to strive towards being more like Jesus". Rather than; "well I said a little prayer once many years ago".
OSAS is true from God's point of view. Being omnipotent He knows who's name has been written in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world. However, from our perspective OSAS is not possible for us to declare. Salvation is God's doing not ours. We become good by God's power and that produces good works in us. Trying to reverse engineer this process only ends in bitter failure time and time again.
 
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Bro.T

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OSAS is true from God's point of view. Being omnipotent He knows who's name has been written in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the world. However, from our perspective OSAS is not possible for us to declare. Salvation is God's doing not ours. We become good by God's power and that produces good works in us. Trying to reverse engineer this process only ends in bitter failure time and time again.
Paul says in (Heb. 10:35-39) (v.35) Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. (v.36) For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. People you must have patience when dealing with the word of God. And you must do the will of God, which is the keeping of his law, if you expect to receive the promise, which is eternal life in the kingdom of God, which will be established on this earth. NO ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN. And it’s strange that most people who consider themselves “once saved always saved” are the same ones that tell you that God’s commandments were nailed to the cross. (v.37) FOR YET A LITTLE WHILE, AND HE THAT SHALL COME WILL COME, AND WILL NOT TARRY.

(v.38) NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. What does Paul mean by if any man draw back? You mean that once you are quote “saved” that you can draw back. According to the apostle Paul you can.
Just as you choose by your own free will to start serving the lord, you can by that same free will stop serving the lord or as Paul put it draw back. (v.39) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. That’s what you must do, you must have faith (believe) unto the saving of the soul. And your soul is not saved as soon as you start to believe on Jesus, salvation is works in progress, not a one step solution.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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We could trade verses all day long:
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2
If Jesus actually died for the whole world, then the whole world is saved. So, we can’t go there because there is a hell and it’s full of people, in fact, most people. The atonement is limited. God limited it to the elect. Either God determined whom He would save and takes the glory, or God just threw atonement out there as some nebulous option and hoped some people would grab hold of it and become a part of His redeeming purpose. The Bible does not allow for that.

Most people in the church believed that on the cross, Jesus paid the debt for the sins of everyone because He loves everyone unconditionally and wants everyone to be saved. That is not what the church has historically believed, but that is what the present version of the superficial church believes. Sinners, all of them, have had all their sins atoned for - potentially, and that’s the key word, if they will acknowledge Christ and accept the gift.

So we have, then, only to convince sinners to receive the salvation that has already been fully purchased for them at the cross. Since Christ died for everyone, everyone can believe and should believe and must believe if they’ll only will to believe. And in a contemporary concept, we work on the sinner’s will, believing that the sinner has both the responsibility and the ability to activate a saving faith on his own and believe.

So the people in hell had the same atonement as the people in heaven. The difference was the people in heaven activated their will to accept that atonement; the people in hell did not. Jesus died for, paid for in full the sins of the damned, paid the penalty of divine justice for them - just as He did for the redeemed - is a very strange notion. And the sinner, then, determines whether that universally potential death is applied to him or not.

This view would say Christ died to make salvation possible, not actual. He died to make it possible. The sinner, then, makes the choice. He didn’t really purchase salvation for anyone, He actually died on the cross and in some way removed a barrier to make salvation a potential. You will not find such language anywhere in the New Testament or the Old.

According to Scripture, sinners are dead - dead in trespasses and sin, separated from the life of God. They are blind. They are perishing. They’re in a state of perishing eternally. They are double blind because the god of this world has blinded their minds. In their natural state, they cannot understand the things of God - they are foolishness to them. Or to borrow the language of Romans 3, there is none who seeks after God, there is no fear of God before their eyes. This, then, affirms another doctrine that the church has always established as true and that is the sinner’s total inability.

The Bible is clear that all are dead in trespasses and sins. That the heart of man is deceitful above all things, desperately wicked. That all its imaginations are only evil continually. The mind is dark, the soul is dark, the heart is full of wicked corruption. The sinner, on his own, can’t do anything.

John 1:12, “As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become the children of God, even to those who believe on His name, who were born not of blood” - it didn’t come from a human source - “nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” If you were given the authority to become a child of God, if you were born into the family of God, it wasn’t because you activated human will. “For by grace you are saved, through faith - that not of yourselves.” 1 Cor 1:30: “By His doing, you are in Christ Jesus.”

Let me show you who Christ died for. Christ die for His sheep as we learn in John 10.

Now, since the sinner cannot will to believe on his own, since he can only believe if God enables him to believe, and since God enables to believe those whom He has chosen, it should be clear that the provision of sacrifice that Christ provided on the cross would be on behalf of those who would believe because they were given life because they were chosen. For those who would believe who are the chosen and the called of God, to whom God regenerates, gives life, the atonement was designed to apply. Someone will say, “Wait a minute. You believe in a limited atonement?” Yes, I do believe in a limited atonement and so do you.

The atonement must not be understood as some general potential atonement or Jesus should have said instead of “It is finished,” “It is begun” - or “I hope this works out for a lot of folks.” Those who say the atonement is unlimited don’t mean that - they can’t mean that. They know the atonement is limited, they know that God limited it to those who believed, and sinners further limit it by not believing.

Hell is not going to be full of people Christ died for, redeemed, reconciled with God, was judged for, paid the debt in full. The debt is paid in full, therefore there no longer is any debt and one cannot end up in hell something Christ already paid for, and was judged for. So if Christ was already judged for all your sins and paid in full, how can you end up in hell? You can't. Something all of you failed to address. Because you can't. No matter how many verses you post. No one will go to Heaven by their own effort, by their own deeds. Our deeds cannot repay even the smallest sin. It's 100% Christ. Stop trying to add anything to it, because then you are rejecting God's perfect sacrifice.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Either way, we'll know with absolute certainty in the next life.
This is not what the Scripture teaches. Jesus not once said, believe, and maybe you will be forgiven. Believe, and maybe you will have an everlasting life.

John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.
John 3:16 that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Faith, not deeds

No of course there is a difference between genuine faith and dead faith. Genuine faith comes from the Holy Spirit and it will show in our life and deeds. It is the Holy Spirit that produces good fruit, we are not capable of it. The whole Scripture God shows us that we are unable to save our selves, and nothing we do saves. God shows us we need a Saviour, a redeemer, a substitute for our sins, Jesus Christ. How can then one lose salvation?

Galatians 4:1 “Now I say, as long as the heir as a child, he doesn’t differ at all from a slave though he is owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, ‘Abba! Father!’ Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.” Please expalin how salvation can be lost.

In Christ we are adopted, Ephesians 1 says, in His Son. “We are blessed” – verse 3 – “with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ.” Verse 4: “He chose us in Him.” Verse 5: “Predestined to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself,” – verse 6 – “in the beloved,” – verse 7 – “in Him,” – and it goes on, verse 9 – “in Him,” – verse 10 – “in Him,” – verse 12 – “in Christ” – verse 13 – “in Him, in Him.” See the assurance of our salvation

God only has one Son, and it is the Lord Jesus Christ. We are placed into Christ, and therefore we become heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

“The Father loves the Son,” John 3:35. And He loves those who are in the Son because they are one with the Son. This is the marvelous reality of salvation. “Behold, what manner of love the Father has, that He has made us” – 1 John 3:1 – “children of God.”

Ephesians 1:13 “In Him, you also, after listening to the message of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,” – you listened, you heard – “you believed also, you were sealed in Him” – that is Christ was your Savior permanently – “you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.”

I could go and on and on, but the point is, nowhere does it say that we will find out one day whether we were good enough or not. Because we weren't But He was
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Nonsense. We are required to acknowledge that there's nothing (no work) we can do in addition to what He has already done. Putting our faith in Him that only His blood can save us and cover our sins is not a case of earning our salvation. How can acknowledging our sins and admitting that we can't do anything to save ourselves be a case of claiming that anything more needs to be done to provide salvation?
So then how can you claim salvation can be lost? Everyone who says salvation can be lost says that you must live a certain way for God to accept you, and you are adding to the cross of Christ. But God will never accept us not matter how we live. We need a redeemer, a substitute for our sins. This is Jesus Christ and Him alone 100%. Christ paid the debt in full, not partly, because if only one sin in your life He did not pay for, you will go to hell. And no matter what you do, you cannot purchase yourself. Either Christ has fully paid for your sins, or you going to hell.

Christ said, it is finished. Tetelestai in original Greek. Tetelestai was a stamp 2,000 years ago that was stamped on an invoice that meant debt was paid in full. If you are a born again Christian, your debt has been paid in full on the cross by Christ and debt no longer remains, and since it's all paid for, on what basis you will lose your salvation and go to hell when all your sins have been paid for? You can't. Something all of you fail to address.

He reconciled us to God (Romans 5:10) How can one lose salvation when we are reconciled to God? Does it say you have to keep the reconciliation? No.

He ransomed us (Mark 10:45). So because He ransomed us, we cannot end in hell. Again, something all of you fail to address.

He satisfied divine justice and bore our punishment (Isaiah 53:5–6, Romans 3:24–26, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24, 2 Corinthians 5:21). Please explain to me how a Christian can end up in hell when Christ has satisfied God's wrath and bore our punishment? Another thing you all fail to explain.

"God made you alive... having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt... He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame..."
Did you catch that? Before Christ disarmed Satan, the debt was cancelled. His victory over Satan came after satisfying divine justice.

And don’t miss what Jesus Himself said in Luke 22:37:
"For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”"
He’s quoting Isaiah 53—and He’s interpreting His own death through it, just prior to going to the cross. "Numbered with the transgressors" isn’t just about being crucified between two criminals. It’s a theological statement: He is taking the place of sinners.
Isaiah 53 says:
"He was pierced for our transgressions"
"The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all"
"It was the will of the Lord to crush Him"
"By His knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous"
That’s penal substitution.
Even the early church saw this.
Athanasius (4th century), in On the Incarnation, wrote:
"The Word… took to Himself a body capable of death, that it… might be worthy to die in the stead of all."
Eusebius of Caesarea said:
"The Lamb of God… was chastised on our behalf, and suffered a penalty He did not owe, but which we owed… and transferred to Himself the scourging, the insults, and the dishonour, which were due to us… being made a curse for us."

All of this you all that claim that salvation can be lost fail to address this. It's all nice you can post verses, but you all fail when it comes to the cross. Christ was a perfect sacrifice. Look at Him and Him alone, and do not depend on yourself, even as a Christian.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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EDIT: Hebrews 6 teaches that a born again Christian can leave the faith.

Esau lost his birthright as a Jew, what makes you think that Christians can't do the same?

Again, the word that needs to be used describing this situation is "betrayal."
He reconciled us to God (Romans 5:10) How can one lose salvation when we are reconciled to God? Does it say you have to keep the reconciliation? No.

He ransomed us (Mark 10:45). So because He ransomed us, we cannot end in hell. Again, something all of you fail to address.

He satisfied divine justice and bore our punishment (Isaiah 53:5–6, Romans 3:24–26, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24, 2 Corinthians 5:21). Please explain to me how a Christian can end up in hell when Christ has satisfied God's wrath and bore our punishment? Another thing you all fail to explain.

"God made you alive... having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt... He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame..."
Did you catch that? Before Christ disarmed Satan, the debt was cancelled. His victory over Satan came after satisfying divine justice.

And don’t miss what Jesus Himself said in Luke 22:37:
"For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”"
He’s quoting Isaiah 53—and He’s interpreting His own death through it, just prior to going to the cross. "Numbered with the transgressors" isn’t just about being crucified between two criminals. It’s a theological statement: He is taking the place of sinners.
Isaiah 53 says:
"He was pierced for our transgressions"
"The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all"
"It was the will of the Lord to crush Him"
"By His knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous"
That’s penal substitution.
Even the early church saw this.
Athanasius (4th century), in On the Incarnation, wrote:
"The Word… took to Himself a body capable of death, that it… might be worthy to die in the stead of all."
Eusebius of Caesarea said:
"The Lamb of God… was chastised on our behalf, and suffered a penalty He did not owe, but which we owed… and transferred to Himself the scourging, the insults, and the dishonour, which were due to us… being made a curse for us."

All of this you all that claim that salvation can be lost fail to address this. It's all nice you can post verses, but you all fail when it comes to the cross. Christ was a perfect sacrifice. Look at Him and Him alone, and do not depend on yourself, even as a Christian.
 
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fhansen

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If Jesus actually died for the whole world, then the whole world is saved. So, we can’t go there because there is a hell and it’s full of people, in fact, most people. The atonement is limited. God limited it to the elect. Either God determined whom He would save and takes the glory, or God just threw atonement out there as some nebulous option and hoped some people would grab hold of it and become a part of His redeeming purpose. The Bible does not allow for that.
I've given up much to help people overcome their slavery to drug addiction. but they still must care; they still must want it. My sacrifices don't always work and neither do God's- because their would be no sin or slavery to it to begin with if not for human free will and- He didn't suddenly change His mind and decide to overwhelm man's will now, creating some kind of Christian automatons in the process. He wants you, your will, involved, for your highest good, like a good parent who guides and draws their children into a responsible life. He desires none to perish. 2 Pet 3
Most people in the church believed that on the cross, Jesus paid the debt for the sins of everyone because He loves everyone unconditionally and wants everyone to be saved. That is not what the church has historically believed, but that is what the present version of the superficial church believes.
Not quite. Some of the early fathers taught limited atonement while most did not. But you'd be hard-pressed to find one who taught OSAS in any case.
This view would say Christ died to make salvation possible, not actual. He died to make it possible.
Yes. He calls and beckons-and instructs and warns.

"Come to Me all you who are weary...." Matt 11
"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." Rev 3
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock." Matt 7
"If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned." John 15
So we have, then, only to convince sinners to receive the salvation that has already been fully purchased for them at the cross. Since Christ died for everyone, everyone can believe and should believe and must believe if they’ll only will to believe. And in a contemporary concept, we work on the sinner’s will, believing that the sinner has both the responsibility and the ability to activate a saving faith on his own and believe.

So the people in hell had the same atonement as the people in heaven. The difference was the people in heaven activated their will to accept that atonement; the people in hell did not. Jesus died for, paid for in full the sins of the damned, paid the penalty of divine justice for them - just as He did for the redeemed - is a very strange notion. And the sinner, then, determines whether that universally potential death is applied to him or not.

This view would say Christ died to make salvation possible, not actual. He died to make it possible. The sinner, then, makes the choice. He didn’t really purchase salvation for anyone, He actually died on the cross and in some way removed a barrier to make salvation a potential. You will not find such language anywhere in the New Testament or the Old.

According to Scripture, sinners are dead - dead in trespasses and sin, separated from the life of God. They are blind. They are perishing. They’re in a state of perishing eternally. They are double blind because the god of this world has blinded their minds. In their natural state, they cannot understand the things of God - they are foolishness to them. Or to borrow the language of Romans 3, there is none who seeks after God, there is no fear of God before their eyes. This, then, affirms another doctrine that the church has always established as true and that is the sinner’s total inability.

The Bible is clear that all are dead in trespasses and sins. That the heart of man is deceitful above all things, desperately wicked. That all its imaginations are only evil continually. The mind is dark, the soul is dark, the heart is full of wicked corruption. The sinner, on his own, can’t do anything.

John 1:12, “As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become the children of God, even to those who believe on His name, who were born not of blood” - it didn’t come from a human source - “nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” If you were given the authority to become a child of God, if you were born into the family of God, it wasn’t because you activated human will. “For by grace you are saved, through faith - that not of yourselves.” 1 Cor 1:30: “By His doing, you are in Christ Jesus.”

Let me show you who Christ died for. Christ die for His sheep as we learn in John 10.

Now, since the sinner cannot will to believe on his own, since he can only believe if God enables him to believe, and since God enables to believe those whom He has chosen, it should be clear that the provision of sacrifice that Christ provided on the cross would be on behalf of those who would believe because they were given life because they were chosen. For those who would believe who are the chosen and the called of God, to whom God regenerates, gives life, the atonement was designed to apply. Someone will say, “Wait a minute. You believe in a limited atonement?” Yes, I do believe in a limited atonement and so do you.

The atonement must not be understood as some general potential atonement or Jesus should have said instead of “It is finished,” “It is begun” - or “I hope this works out for a lot of folks.” Those who say the atonement is unlimited don’t mean that - they can’t mean that. They know the atonement is limited, they know that God limited it to those who believed, and sinners further limit it by not believing.

Hell is not going to be full of people Christ died for, redeemed, reconciled with God, was judged for, paid the debt in full. The debt is paid in full, therefore there no longer is any debt and one cannot end up in hell something Christ already paid for, and was judged for. So if Christ was already judged for all your sins and paid in full, how can you end up in hell? You can't. Something all of you failed to address. Because you can't. No matter how many verses you post. No one will go to Heaven by their own effort, by their own deeds. Our deeds cannot repay even the smallest sin. It's 100% Christ. Stop trying to add anything to it, because then you are rejecting God's perfect sacrifice.
The correct understanding, set down at council about 15 centuries ago, largely using Augustine's arguments against Pelagianism, is that God must initiate; He must move first; grace precedes everything. Man cannot move himself to God even if he knew where to find Him; man is lost, sick, spiritually dead, existing in a state of injustice consisting of his alienation from God, even as he possesses a void, a need, a lack within himself that only God can fill. This is true of all men. And likewise it's true that all men were made for communion with God, We can get on board with that purpose or we can thwart that purpose. We can be fair soil where the seed takes root for a while but later withers and dies due to negligence, etc. At the end of the day the elect are simply those who respond and persevere-and God, alone, knows with perfect certainty who they will be. But as we turn to Him in faith, the branch now connected to the Vine, we have all the means needed to work out our salvation together with He who works in us.
 
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So then how can you claim salvation can be lost?
Did you read everything I said or not? I'm saying we're saved by grace through faith and not by works just like scripture teaches. So, how can salvation be lost? By someone losing their faith. That's why we see scripture like this that is addressed to those who currently have faith and are saved...

Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

Scripture says we are responsible to keep the faith we have that results in our salvation rather than developing an "unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God" all the way "to the very end" of our lives. That is no guarantee since verse 14 has that word "if" there, implying that holding our original conviction to the very end is not a sure thing and is something we are responsible to do. God doesn't force us to remain faithful to Him. Look at what Jesus Himself said...

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Who is in Christ? Only those who are saved. Why does Jesus talk about being the true vine and about every branch that is in Him that bears no fruit being cut off if salvation can't be lost? What does it indicate if someone is not bearing any fruit? It indicates that they lost their faith in Jesus because those who have faith in Jesus desire to obey Him and serve Him. Jesus will not accept it if someone decides to no longer believe in Him and follow Him.

Everyone who says salvation can be lost says that you must live a certain way for God to accept you, and you are adding to the cross of Christ.
Except me, I guess? I don't say that. What does that even mean? We have to continue to put our trust in Him and not ourselves for salvation even after we first put our trust in Him. That's what it indicates in passages like Hebrews 3:12-14 and John 15:1-6.

But God will never accept us not matter how we live.
Right. Our righteousness is as filthy rags and we can't earn our salvation. I'm 100% on board with that. But, you seem to want to lump all non-Calvinists together, which is a mistake on your part. I certainly do not accept being lumped in with anyone who thinks we can earn our salvation by doing certain works. But, does God not requires us to have faith and to trust in His Son for salvation rather than ourselves? Scripture repeatedly says that He does.

We need a redeemer, a substitute for our sins. This is Jesus Christ and Him alone 100%. Christ paid the debt in full, not partly, because if only one sin in your life He did not pay for, you will go to hell. And no matter what you do, you cannot purchase yourself. Either Christ has fully paid for your sins, or you going to hell.
Of course! Hello? You are debating a straw man here and not me.

Christ said, it is finished. Tetelestai in original Greek. Tetelestai was a stamp 2,000 years ago that was stamped on an invoice that meant debt was paid in full. If you are a born again Christian, your debt has been paid in full on the cross by Christ and debt no longer remains, and since it's all paid for, on what basis you will lose your salvation and go to hell when all your sins have been paid for? You can't. Something all of you fail to address.
I am addressing it now. Don't lump me in with anyone else. You are focused on the fact that we can't do works to earn our salvation, which I agree with, but you're only looking at part of the story. That doesn't mean we have no responsibility at all. You contradict much scripture by trying to remove all responsibility from man as if we are not expected to do anything at all.

Tell me, when the jailer asked Paul and Silas what he had to do to be saved, why did Paul and Silas not tell him that there was nothing he could do to be saved if we are not responsible to do anything at all, including putting our faith and trust in Christ for salvation instead of ourselves? Instead of telling him there was nothing he could do, they told him to believe in Jesus in order to be saved, implying that he was responsible to choose whether to do that or not.

He reconciled us to God (Romans 5:10) How can one lose salvation when we are reconciled to God? Does it say you have to keep the reconciliation? No.
Scripture says we are responsible to keep our faith until the end (Hebrews 13:14) instead of turning away from God or else we will be cut off (John 15:2,6; Romans 11:22). Again, you only look at part of the story instead of the whole story.

He ransomed us (Mark 10:45). So because He ransomed us, we cannot end in hell. Again, something all of you fail to address.
You like to just make claims and act like you've proven something, but you prove nothing. He paid the ransom price even for the false teachers and prophets referenced in the following verse, so you don't know what you're talking about here.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

The fact that He ransoms us does not mean we have no responsibility to be thankful to Him and put our trust in Him for what He did for us. Some deny Him and do not accept the price He paid for them. So, don't tell me that no one who He ransomed and paid the price for can't end up in hell.

He satisfied divine justice and bore our punishment (Isaiah 53:5–6, Romans 3:24–26, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24, 2 Corinthians 5:21). Please explain to me how a Christian can end up in hell when Christ has satisfied God's wrath and bore our punishment? Another thing you all fail to explain.
I'm explaining it to you now, so don't include me with anyone who isn't able to explain why they believe what they do. I do not fail to explain anything that I believe.

All of this you all that claim that salvation can be lost fail to address this. It's all nice you can post verses, but you all fail when it comes to the cross. Christ was a perfect sacrifice. Look at Him and Him alone, and do not depend on yourself, even as a Christian.
So nice of you to judge me before even giving me the opportunity to explain why I believe what I do. It's naive for you to lump me in with others who have apparently said that works are required for salvation, which is not what I believe.
 
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If Jesus actually died for the whole world, then the whole world is saved.
Nonsense! Scripture explicitly teaches that He died for the whole world, so why deny it?

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

He died for the false teachers and prophets referenced in the following verse. Are they saved? Clearly not. So, your statement is 100% false.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Jesus died in order to give everyone the opportunity to be saved. Everyone is required to choose whether to accept or deny/reject Jesus and what He did for them.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
 
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fhansen

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This is not what the Scripture teaches. Jesus not once said, believe, and maybe you will be forgiven. Believe, and maybe you will have an everlasting life.

John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.
John 3:16 that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Faith, not deeds
"If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19:17
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matt 22:37-40

Love, as it overcomes sin and produces good fruit by its nature, is the authentic source of obedience and good deeds, with faith and hope oriented to and leading to that love as all three virtues both come from and are oriented towards God, who is love, and the Source of love. The nearer we draw to Him, the more like Him we'll become.

Now, as you said:
"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [Rom 4:3] Faith, not deeds"

But how does this faith save? More from Romans:
Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. Rom 8:12-14

So:
"You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." James 2:22-24
No of course there is a difference between genuine faith and dead faith. Genuine faith comes from the Holy Spirit and it will show in our life and deeds. It is the Holy Spirit that produces good fruit, we are not capable of it. The whole Scripture God shows us that we are unable to save our selves, and nothing we do saves. God shows us we need a Saviour, a redeemer, a substitute for our sins, Jesus Christ.
"The only thing that counts is faith working through love." Gal 5:6
How can then one lose salvation?
By refusing to love. Heck, we aren't even forgiven unless we reciprocate with the same love we've been shown and given:
"For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matt 6:14-15
I could go and on and on, but the point is, nowhere does it say that we will find out one day whether we were good enough or not. Because we weren't But He was
And because He was, so we can be also. And if we're not, if we bury our talents, if we don't remain in Him, if we produce no good fruit, if we use the gospel as an excuse to remain in our sins or take forgiveness for granted, if we don't care about the relationship, if we mock God by returning to the flesh, if we taste of the heavenly gift and later reject it, or escape the pollution of the world by coming to know Christ and then return to our pigstys, then yes, of course, we lose our salvation. I can go on as well, but we must read all of Scripture, with the sticks along with the carrots.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
The word used to say the false teachers were "bought" can be used to denote any kind of deliverance, and so does not necessarily indicate that they had been purchased by the blood of Christ. Based on the context, it may be best to understand the statement that the false teachers had been "bought" not as a reference to the death of Christ, but a reference to some other act of deliverance--such as deliverance by God's goodness from the idolatry of the world. Notice how later on Peter refers to the false teachers as having had a form of "deliverance" in that they "escape[ed] the pollution of the world" by the knowledge of the gospel (v. 20). This verse is not referring to salvation, but outward reformation with no ultimate inward reality. These people did not have their natures changed and so returned to the mud like a pig. We all know of many unsaved people who for a time reform their lives, but soon go back to their old way. In 2:20 Peter is saying that the false teachers are like that; and so in 2:1 it is possible that the "deliverance" or "purchase" of these teachers refers to their outward escape from the pollution of the world and thus does not imply anything about whether Christ had bought them by His death.

There is also another possibility, Peter is referring to the Exodus in 2:1. For Peter compares the false prophets that would arise in the church to the false prophets that arose in Israel: "False prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you." In the Old Testament the whole nation of Israel, and thus even the false teachers in it, was considered to have been "bought" by God in the Exodus from Egypt. Through this deliverance, God "bought" the nation of Israel and thus Israel rightfully belonged to God as His peculiar people. We see this in Deuteronomy 32:6, which is the passage that Peter is probably alluding to: "Do you thus repay the Lord, O foolish and unwise people? Is not He your Father who has bought you? He has made you and established you." God "bought" Israel not by the death of Christ but, as this text says, by forming the nation. This is evident from Exodus 15:16 as well, which speaks of the Exodus as the act of God whereby He "bought" Israel: "Terror and dread fall upon them; by the greatness of Thine arm they are motionless as stone; until they people pass over, O Lord, until the people pass over whom thou hast purchased."

So the nation of Israel was considered "bought" by God because of the Exodus. Since 2 Peter 2:1 is comparing the false teachers who arise in the church with the false prophets who arose in Israel, could it not be that Peter is saying that these false prophets will be from the nation of Israel--that is, those who were "bought" in the Exodus? Or, perhaps could he not be saying that these false teachers will be church attenders in a position analogous to those in Israel who had been "bought" at the Exodus?

Regardless, we see that there are many different things Peter could mean when he says the false teachers were "bought" by the Lord. Because of this ambiguity, it would not be wise to take this as a passage denying limited atonement. In fact, in light of the clear teaching elsewhere in Scripture that limited atonement is true, it would be best to interpret this ambiguous passage in light of those.

So, don't tell me that no one who He ransomed and paid the price for can't end up in hell.
The debt has been paid in full. There is no longer any debt by which a Christian can und up in hell. Is it that hard to understand? Christ did pay for all your sins if you are in Him, both past and future. Thus once saved always saved. You thing the moment your faith fails you lose your salvation? No! How many times Abraham's faith failed, yet he is in Heaven with the Lord. You know why? Do you know first Abrahamic covenant? Read it in genesis 12. It is unconditional. It is something God will do irrelevant to us

God determined to call out a special people for Himself, and through that special people He would bless the whole world. The Lord tells Abram,
“I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you”

Five times in Genesis 12, as God is giving the Abrahamic Covenant, He says, “I will.” Clearly, God takes the onus of keeping the covenant upon Himself. The covenant is unconditional.
Does God demand anything from Abraham? No. This is the covenant of grace.

I'm explaining it to you now, so don't include me with anyone who isn't able to explain why they believe what they do. I do not fail to explain anything that I believe.
You explained nothing. God cannot judge His people in any way because His people have already been judged in Jesus. When Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then. God is never judging you for your sin if you are in Christ.

People in hell will suffer eternal wrath of God. But Jesus took the whole wrath for our (true believers) sins, therefore wrath no longer remains. Jesus dealt with every sin of every true believer on the cross. End.

Do you think you will lose salvation the moment your faith fails? You know how many times the heroes of faith failed with their faith? And yet they are in Heaven. Because they have been justified by the one who kept faith and never failed.

Or how many times is it acceptable to lose faith? 3? 10? Is there a limit? See how illogical this is?

But keep worrying about your salvation. What if you failed but you did not see. You will never be sure.

But as the Lord says I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

John 10 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.


There we have the word from the Lord Himself. His sheep will never perish, so salvation cannot be lost. No one will snatch Jesus' sheep out of His hand, so salvation cannot be lost. Not possible.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
'For the sins of the whole world' is a generic term, referring not to every single individual, but to mankind in general. Christ actually paid the penalty only for those who would repent and believe. A number of Scripture indicates that Christ died for the world (John 1:29; 3:16; 6:51; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb 2:9). Most of the world will be eternally condemned to hell to pay for their own sins, so they could not have been paid for by Christ. The passages that speak of Christ’s dying for the whole world must be understood to refer to mankind in general (as in Titus 2:3-4). “World” indicates the sphere, the beings toward whom God seeks reconciliation and has provided propitiation. God has mitigated his wrath on sinners temporarily, by letting them live and enjoy earthly life. In that sense, Christ has provided a brief, temporal propitiation for the whole world. But he actually satisfied fully the wrath of God eternally only for the elect who believe. Christ’s death in itself had unlimited and infinite value because he is Holy God. Thus his sacrifice was sufficient to pay the penalty for all the sins of all whom God brings to faith. But the actual satisfaction and atonement was made only for those who believe (cf. John 10:11, 15; 17:9, 20; Acts 20:28; Rom 8:32, 37; Eph 5:25). The pardon for sin is offered to the whole world, but received only by those who believe (cf. 1 John 4:9, 14; John 5:24). There is no other way to be reconciled to God.
 
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The word used to say the false teachers were "bought" can be used to denote any kind of deliverance, and so does not necessarily indicate that they had been purchased by the blood of Christ.
Give me a break. This is nonsense. I can't take you seriously because you're not willing to address any scripture honestly. Are you that committed to believing what you want to believe instead of just accepting what scripture teaches no matter what that might be? Scripture says Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for the whole world (1 John 2:1-2), so that includes those false teaches and prophets.

Based on the context, it may be best to understand the statement that the false teachers had been "bought" not as a reference to the death of Christ, but a reference to some other act of deliverance--such as deliverance by God's goodness from the idolatry of the world.
Please spare me this nonsense already. You are interpreting the scripture with extreme doctrinal bias. If someone has been delivered from the idolatry of the world then that means they are saved. Why would the Lord buy them to deliver them for the idolatry of the world, but not buy them to save them? You just have no idea how nonsensical that is. They denied Him and did not accept the price He paid for them. That's why it says they bring destruction on themselves. No one can say they didn't have the opportunity to be saved, but they denied Christ and rejected it. So, the blame is entirely theirs. They can't try to say "Well, God didn't give us faith, so how could we be expected to believe?". No, they were expected to believe and chose not to.

Notice how later on Peter refers to the false teachers as having had a form of "deliverance" in that they "escape[ed] the pollution of the world" by the knowledge of the gospel (v. 20).
Hello? What do you think salvation is? It's exactly that. When we are saved by accepting and embracing the gospel we are no longer slaves to sin and no longer embracing "the pollution of the world" instead.

This verse is not referring to salvation, but outward reformation with no ultimate inward reality.
Nonsense. I can't take you seriously. You are twisting scripture left and right to make it fit your doctrine.

There is also another possibility,
Yeah, you're going to go through every possibility except what the one that is the correct one. Good grief.

You explained nothing.
You explain nothing.

God cannot judge His people in any way because His people have already been judged in Jesus. When Christ drank the cup of God’s wrath He drank it to the dregs. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus and that means on the final day and every day until then. God is never judging you for your sin if you are in Christ.
You remove all responsibility from man, but scripture does not. We are required to humble ourselves and repent of our sins while acknowledging that we can't save ourselves. Like the tax collector in this parable...

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

The Pharisee in this parable is the kind of person that you apparently normally debate against in relation to this topic. The Pharisee is the kind of person who thinks he can earn his salvation by his own works and righteousness, which is not possible. Scripture is clear that we are not saved by works or our own righteousness.

The tax collector, in contrast, does not think highly of himself at all and does not believe that he can earn his own salvation by his own works and righteousness. He instead pleads with God while humbling himself and acknowledging that he's a sinner by saying "God, have mercy on me, a sinner". Jesus then said the tax collector went home justified before God, but the Pharisee did not because "all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”.

Your concern as it relates to this topic is a valid one. I share the same concern relating to people thinking that they can earn their own salvation by their own works and righteousness. They cannot. However, that does not mean we have no responsibility at all in salvation. Humbling ourselves and admitting that we are sinners that can't save ourselves and need God's mercy and forgiveness is not a case of trying to earn our salvation by works. It's just the opposite of that. It's a case of acknowledging that we can't earn our salvation by works. So, God is looking for people who are willing to admit that they can't save themselves and instead need His mercy and need the blood of Jesus to save them. By making people responsible to choose whether to humble or exalt themselves takes nothing away from God's grace or His sovereignty. He graciously offers salvation to all people and expect them to humbly choose to accept it by way of repenting of their sins and acknowledging that they can't save themselves. But, people like the false teachers and prophets in 2 Peter 2:1 and the Pharisee in this parable choose not to humble themselves and deny the Lord who bought them because they think they don't need God and don't need Christ's sacrifice for them and can save themselves by their own works and righteousness instead.



People in hell will suffer eternal wrath of God.
Why? In your view what is the reason for that? In mine, it's simple. People stubbornly refuse to humble themselves before God and accept what He did for them, so God gets righteously angry about that and punishes them. In your view I don't see any basis at all for God's wrath against people who He doesn't even give any opportunity to be saved.

Do you think you will lose salvation the moment your faith fails?
No. It has to be a fully committed decision to turn away from God. If people don't take the warnings given in passages like Hebrews 3:12-14 and John 15:1-6 seriously and become complacent in their faith and their walk with Jesus, then they can fall away and lose their faith which results in the loss of salvation.

You know how many times the heroes of faith failed with their faith? And yet they are in Heaven. Because they have been justified by the one who kept faith and never failed.
Look here. I'm not saying it's easy for someone to lose their salvation. But, it can happen if someone acts as if the warnings about losing one's faith are not taken seriously.

But keep worrying about your salvation. What if you failed but you did not see. You will never be sure.
LOL. I'm not worried about it, buddy. But, I don't ignore the warnings given in scripture about encouraging each other daily "so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness" (Hebrews 3:13). Those warnings are not empty threats.

But as the Lord says I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
You take a lot of scripture out of context. He SHOULD lose nothing, but He does not force anyone to stay faithful to Him.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 10 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

There we have the word from the Lord Himself. His sheep will never perish, so salvation cannot be lost. No one will snatch Jesus' sheep out of His hand, so salvation cannot be lost. Not possible.
Except it is possible and you can see that if you stop taking scripture out of context.
 
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