Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Keep the faith until the end?

[RileyG]

As was Judas', there faith was counterfeit, they were not born again.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Nonsense. By saying salvation can be lost means you are not ignoring the fact that we have responsibility in salvation as Calvinists like you do. Our responsibility is not to do works to earn our salvation, but rather to humble ourselves before God while submitting to Him and acknowledging that we are sinners who can't save ourselves and instead need His provision for us.

It is exactly that. People who claim salvation can be lost are saying Christ has not done enough for them on the cross.

Christ said 'it is finished' not it will be finished. The Greek word in the text is 'tetelestei'. Tetelstei was a stamp in time of Jesus that was stamped on an invoice when a debt was paid in full. That is exactly what happened on the cross. The debt was paid in full for all the true believers in Christ, both OT & NT. And because the debt was paid in full, there no longer is a debt for a believer, because Christ purchased Him on the cross. Therefore you cannot lose your salvation.

Christ also reconciled His elect to God on the cross. He satisfied God's wrath, and God's wrath no longer remains. You are telling me that Christ satisfied God's wrath for the sinner on the cross, but then the sinner does something and God changes His mind and is will pour the same wrath on the sinner He poured on His Son for something His Son was already judged for and paid the full price for? Utter nonsense. Just shows how none of you who claim that salvation can be lost absolutely do not understand what Christ done on the cross.

Furthermore, you are all calling Jesus a liar when He says that He will lose none, and nothing will separate us from the love of God. If you truly are saved, then you have been adopted to God's family as children of God and heirs of God's inheritance. Those who are in Christ God loves the same way as His Son, and He no longer sees sinners, but He sees us covered in Christ's saving blood. All of this you seem to ignore.

Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

Hebrews 3:12-14 speaks nothing of losing of salvation.

The writer of Hebrews reminds readers of their current position in Christ. We are the house of God, if indeed we have the confidence and hope of Him to the end. We also have become partakers of Christ, if indeed we have the beginning or basis of the confidence held fast to the end. If we have these things because of what the Christ has done for us, then we “must pay the most careful attention to what we have heard” ]. We ought to be exhorting one another right now, while it is still called “today”]

The writer adds that those who have believed will enter the rest promised to those who believe Hebrews 4:3. While that promise is firm, believers should make sure that no one will even seem to come short of receiving that rest Hebrews 4:1. In other words, God’s promise is certain, yet we should not take it for granted and ignore what He has told us.

The constant warnings in Hebrews are to believers who ought to walk like they have been saved by Christ—because they have. In order to help each other, we are supposed to exhort one another while it is still called “today.” As the writer says later in the letter, we ought to consider how to encourage one another to love and good deeds Hebrews 10:24

But keep worrying about your salvation. Keep worrying whether you live a life good enough to enter Heaven. You have to constantly fear where ever you will spent eternity. You won't know until after your death. Like Islam and all the false religions.

But I have assurance in Christ and His perfect work on the cross, and His promises to us.

 

[ARBITER01]

This thread is interesting.

So many people trying to deny that a born again believer can walk away from The Lord, when it is specifically stated in the book of Hebrews that it can happen.

The word that needs to be used here is "betrayal." That's what satan did to GOD, he betrayed GOD, even talked a 1/3 of the angels into doing the same thing.

It can happen.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

No it's not.

John 19:30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

You are contradicting what God said.
Christ said 'it is finished' not it will be finished. The Greek word in the text is 'tetelestei'. Tetelstei was a stamp in time of Jesus that was stamped on an invoice when a debt was paid in full. That is exactly what happened on the cross. The debt was paid in full for all the true believers in Christ, both OT & NT. And because the debt was paid in full, there no longer is a debt for a believer, because Christ purchased Him on the cross. Therefore you cannot lose your salvation.

Christ also reconciled His elect to God on the cross. He satisfied God's wrath, and God's wrath no longer remains. You are telling me that Christ satisfied God's wrath for the sinner on the cross, but then the sinner does something and God changes His mind and is will pour the same wrath on the sinner He poured on His Son for something His Son was already judged for and paid the full price for? Utter nonsense. Just shows how none of you who claim that salvation can be lost absolutely do not understand what Christ done on the cross.

Furthermore, you are all calling Jesus a liar when He says that He will lose none, and nothing will separate us from the love of God. If you truly are saved, then you have been adopted to God's family as children of God and heirs of God's inheritance. Those who are in Christ God loves the same way as His Son, and He no longer sees sinners, but He sees us covered in Christ's saving blood. All of this you seem to ignore.

You have entered into a relationship with Jesus, and if you are not going to do your part to keep it fresh everyday with Him, you can't expect Jesus to just drag you along with those that have.

Chapter 12 verse 1, Genesis: “the Lord said to Abram, ‘Go forth from your country, from your relatives And from your father’s house, To the land which I will show you; And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’” That is what is known as the Abrahamic covenant. What strikes you, first of all, is the little verbal phrase, “I will” five times, five times. “I will show you, I will make you, I will bless you, I will bless, I will curse - I will, I will, I will, I will, I will” - this isn’t some kind of agreement between God and Abram; this is unilateral and unconditional and sovereign. God is simply saying “This is what I will do: I will make you into a great nation, I will bless you, make your name great, you will then become a blessing, I will bless those that bless you, curse those that curse you, and in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.” There are no ifs, ands, or buts, right? There’s no caveats; that’s why we call it an unconditional covenant. It is an unconditional promise. It is unilateral. It is given by a sovereign, who has all authority and all power.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

So many people trying to deny that a born again believer can walk away from The Lord, when it is specifically stated in the book of Hebrews that it can happen.

Hebrews 10 does not teach that salvation can be lost.

Yes, Hebrews 10:26-29 warns against the sin of apostasy. Apostasy is an intentional falling away or defection. Apostates are those who move toward Christ, right up to the edge of saving belief, who hear and understand the Gospel, and are on the verge of saving faith, but then reject what they have learned and turn away. These are people who are perhaps even aware of their sin and even make a profession of faith. But rather than going on to spiritual maturity, their interest in Christ begins to diminish, the things of the world have more attraction to them rather than less, and eventually they lose all desire for the things of God and they turn away. The Lord illustrated these types of people in the second and third soils of the parable of the sower. These are those who “receive with joy” the things of the Lord, but who are drawn away by the cares of the world or turned off by difficulties they encounter because of Christ.

“Willful sinning” in this passage carries the idea of consciously and deliberately rejecting Christ. To know God’s way, to hear it preached, to study it, to count oneself among the faithful, and then to turn away is to become apostate. Sinning willfully carries with it the idea of sinning continually and deliberately. Such a person does not sin because of ignorance, nor is he carried away by momentary temptations he is too weak to resist. The willful sinner sins because of an established way of thinking and acting which he has no desire to give up. The true believer, on the other hand, is one who lapses into sin and loses temporary fellowship with God. But he will eventually come back to God in repentance because his heavenly Father will continually woo and convict him until he can’t stay away any longer. The true apostate will continue to sin, deliberately, willingly and with abandon. John tells us that “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God” 1 John 3:9

Apostates have knowledge, but no application of that knowledge. They can be found in the presence of the light of Christ, mostly in the church, among God’s people. Judas Iscariot is the perfect example—he had knowledge but he lacked true faith. No other rejecter of the truth had more or better exposure to the love and grace of God than Judas. He was part of Jesus’ inner circle of disciples, eating, sleeping, and traveling with Him for years. He saw the miracles and heard the words of God from Jesus’ very lips, from the best preacher the world has ever known, and yet he not only turned away but was instrumental in the plot to kill Jesus.

Having turned his back on the truth, and with full knowledge choosing to willfully and continually sin, the apostate is then beyond salvation because he has rejected the one true sacrifice for sins: the Lord Jesus Christ. If Christ’s sacrifice is rejected, then all hope of salvation is gone. To turn away willfully from this sacrifice leaves no sacrifice; it leaves only sin, the penalty for which is eternal death. This passage is not speaking of a believer who falls away, but rather someone who may claim to be a believer, but truly is not. Anyone who apostatizes is proving he never had genuine faith to begin with(1 John 2:19)

 

[Hoping2]

Is 1 Jn 1:18 true or false?

1 John 1:8 is true...for those walking in darkness.
But it is not true for those walking in the light.
God is the light, and there is no darkness in God.
If we are walking in the light, we are walking in God.

 

[fhansen]

Christ said 'it is finished' not it will be finished. The Greek word in the text is 'tetelestei'. Tetelstei was a stamp in time of Jesus that was stamped on an invoice when a debt was paid in full. That is exactly what happened on the cross. The debt was paid in full for all the true believers in Christ, both OT & NT. And because the debt was paid in full, there no longer is a debt for a believer, because Christ purchased Him on the cross. Therefore you cannot lose your salvation.

Nah. He did His job, for all. Now it's up to us to care.

 

[Godsunworthyservant]

Well, this is enlightening to say the least. You speak of the idea of OSAS. I remember the term from many years ago, but I had always known the tenant as "Eternal Security". SO, I started a thread the other day about Eternal Security and found that at least a couple of those who replied weren't familiar with the term. Here. it seems most everyone knows what you are talking about when you call it OSAS. I learn something new every day. That said in Matthew 25:31-46 Christ tells us how God will judge everyone. Those who espouse OSAS pick the words of Christ that seem to support it and ignore all the verses about how we must live our lives. I've heard people define the word repent as "to turn away from". Actually the original Greek word had more of a meaning than that. Most Lexicons agree it meant to leave one life behind and embark on a completely new one. Anyway, glad someone covered the subject in terms others understand.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

We have to understand the Fall of man from the correct perspective first of all. Man did not become some kind of "sin machine" with a new nature as if something was added to him. Rather he lost something, he lost his vital connection to his Creator in a bid for autonomy from Him. And with that he lost moral continency. Adam literally got what he wanted, freedom from the moral authority of God. We're here to come to learn to freely accept that authority now, as we come to recognize and acknowledge our need for it after all, for Him, 'apart from whom we can do nothing', That's what being born again is all about, to be reconciled with and returned back to God.

Sin doesn't turn us away from God; we turn away as evidenced by our sin that attracts us away from the true Good, "tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed", James 1. We fail to put God first above all else. And that kind of sin and the selfishness and hatred it implies erodes our love even more. It's a slavery.

The will remains a player until our love is so complete that we simply never will or choose foolishly, against His will, again. If Adam possessed that love in Eden he never would've disobeyed but in God's wise economy that love, in order to even be true love, is a chosen thing, a process that's embraced, cultivated, and grown in as we come to know and embrace Him, turning away from sin and the temporary offerings of this world, even as that love is also a gift from Him to begin with. And that love, and the struggle with and the turning away from sin that opposes it, with the testing and refinement involved in this process, is God's ultimate creative plan for bringing us to our very purpose, our telos, the reason we were created as it transforms us increasingly into His image. Love is man's righteousness, his justice, as the Source of that love is our righteousness.

Yes, and like I said, we'd have to throw out a large portion of the bible in order to believe otherwise.

Any position that says that we can sin and still expect to make it into heaven minimizes sin. That's what "simul justus et peccator" effectively amounts to, for instance. In Catholicism, God doesn't necessarily expect us to be absolutely perfect in this life, even as perfection is the utlimate goal. We receive a final purification in the next life in Catholic teaching, if we haven't so rejected God and His ways by our actions in this life that we prove we have no desire and love for Him at all. We need to look at this honestly and practically. If two people walked into the room and one had just stolen from the cookie jar or fudged on his taxes while the other had just tortured and killed another person, which would you want to hang out with more, and which do you think might be closer to God?

Love and sin are mutually exclusive, which is why "love fulfills the law". Love is true righteousness.

I never denied for a moment that all sin is unrighteousness-saying only that some sin strikes at and offends againt love much more directly and radically such that a radical change of heart has occured requiring a radical metanoia and repentance all over again. But we mock God if we think His Son sacrificed Himself for forgiveness only, and not also for the purpose of actually restoring true justice/righteous to and within us now-so that along with being forgiven we'll 'go, and sin no more', even if that sanctity is a process that is worked out as we work our salvation and make our calling and election sure. We grow nearer to and more in love with God-and sin grows further away at the same time. That's the path we must be on. Some, having lived extremely sinful lives, have experienced such dramatic conversions that they reject sin all at once, more completely than others -but I guarantee that the battle, the struggle of choosing between good and evil, still goes on for them too, to one degree or another.

The awkwardness stems from thinking that all sins past, present, and future are automatcailly forgiven for no other reason than that one believes, without the overcoming of sin also being part of the "equation". Heck, unless change, inducing our reciprocal love, takes place in us we won't be forgiven:
"For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matt 6:14-15

The awkardness and ambiguity reside in thinking that egregious sin should exclude one from being a child of God to begin with while accepting milder sins as not excluding him- and then objecting to that very idea when it's spelled out in practical terms by church doctrine. Or in thinking that all sins are forgiven only by belief, such that the answer to the question, 'can a person persistently engaging in rape, torture, and murder still expect to enter heaven as long as they believe?', becomes problematic- and answered in a variety of often conflicting ways.

Speaking of taxes, I need to do mine in the next couple days. I'll give you the last word on Catholic doctrine. Thanks for engaging again.

 

[fhansen]

Speaking of taxes, I need to do mine in the next couple days. I'll give you the last word on Catholic doctrine. Thanks for engaging again.

Glad I could help in some little way . And I tend to refer to it as "Christian doctrine", of course.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Nah. He did His job, for all. Now it's up to us to care.

It amazes me how many Christians don't understand the cross.

Hell is not going to be full of people Christ died for, reconciled for, was judged for, paid the price for, satisfied God's wrath for.


Romans 8:17 says, “Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory” God's children and heirs are not going to be in hell.

Romans 8 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So how can a person in Christ end in hell when nothing can separate us from the love of God? Not possible.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

It amazes me how many Christians don't understand the cross.

- He triumphed over Satan (Colossians 2:15) – Christus Victor
- He set us an example (1 Peter 2:21) – Moral Influence
- He reconciled us to God (Romans 5:10) – Reconciliation
- He ransomed us (Mark 10:45) – Redemption
- He satisfied divine justice and bore our punishment – Penal Substitution (Isaiah 53:5–6, Romans 3:24–26, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24, 2 Corinthians 5:21)

Now notice Colossians 2:13–15:
"God made you alive... having forgiven us all our trespasses, by cancelling the record of debt... He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame..."
Did you catch that? Before Christ disarmed Satan, the debt was cancelled. His victory over Satan came after satisfying divine justice. So:
Christus Victor is the result.
Penal Substitution is the cause.
And don’t miss what Jesus Himself said in Luke 22:37:
"For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”"
He’s quoting Isaiah 53—and He’s interpreting His own death through it, just prior to going to the cross. "Numbered with the transgressors" isn’t just about being crucified between two criminals. It’s a theological statement: He is taking the place of sinners.
Isaiah 53 says:
"He was pierced for our transgressions"
"The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all"
"It was the will of the Lord to crush Him"
"By His knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous"
That’s penal substitution.

Even the early church saw this.
Athanasius (4th century), in On the Incarnation, wrote:
"The Word… took to Himself a body capable of death, that it… might be worthy to die in the stead of all."
Eusebius of Caesarea said:
"The Lamb of God… was chastised on our behalf, and suffered a penalty He did not owe, but which we owed… and transferred to Himself the scourging, the insults, and the dishonour, which were due to us… being made a curse for us."

Lastly let me say, the cross is only victorious because Jesus bore our sin and satisfied divine justice.
That's why Paul could say:
"He loved me and gave Himself for me" (Galatians 2:20).

 

[RileyG]

It amazes me how many Christians don't understand the cross.

- He triumphed over Satan (Colossians 2:15) – Christus Victor
- He set us an example (1 Peter 2:21) – Moral Influence
- He reconciled us to God (Romans 5:10) – Reconciliation
- He ransomed us (Mark 10:45) – Redemption
- He satisfied divine justice and bore our punishment – Penal Substitution (Isaiah 53:5–6, Romans 3:24–26, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24, 2 Corinthians 5:21)

Now notice Colossians 2:13–15:
"God made you alive... having forgiven us all our trespasses, by cancelling the record of debt... He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame..."
Did you catch that? Before Christ disarmed Satan, the debt was cancelled. His victory over Satan came after satisfying divine justice. So:
Christus Victor is the result.
Penal Substitution is the cause.
And don’t miss what Jesus Himself said in Luke 22:37:
"For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”"
He’s quoting Isaiah 53—and He’s interpreting His own death through it, just prior to going to the cross. "Numbered with the transgressors" isn’t just about being crucified between two criminals. It’s a theological statement: He is taking the place of sinners.
Isaiah 53 says:
"He was pierced for our transgressions"
"The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all"
"It was the will of the Lord to crush Him"
"By His knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous"
That’s penal substitution.

Even the early church saw this.
Athanasius (4th century), in On the Incarnation, wrote:
"The Word… took to Himself a body capable of death, that it… might be worthy to die in the stead of all."
Eusebius of Caesarea said:
"The Lamb of God… was chastised on our behalf, and suffered a penalty He did not owe, but which we owed… and transferred to Himself the scourging, the insults, and the dishonour, which were due to us… being made a curse for us."

Lastly let me say, the cross is only victorious because Jesus bore our sin and satisfied divine justice.
That's why Paul could say:
"He loved me and gave Himself for me" (Galatians 2:20).

I don’t accept penal substitution. God the Father is not a monster, nor do I accept Calvinism. I don’t find it biblical or historically accurate.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

I don’t accept penal substitution. God the Father is not a monster, nor do I accept Calvinism. I don’t find it biblical or historically accurate.

Our sins had to be punished. Yes, we are saved by God's grace, but that does not mean the sins went unpunished, that would make God unjust.

Christ was punished for our sins. The curses (and there are many in the Bible) that belong to us for our sins were laid on Christ, so the blessing Christ deserved, were poured on us.

 

[RileyG]

Our sins had to be punished. Yes, we are saved by God's grace, but that does not mean the sins went unpunished, that would make God unjust.

Christ was punished for our sins. The curses (and there are many in the Bible) that belong to us for our sins were laid on Christ, so the blessing Christ deserved, were poured on us.

Ok.

 

[fhansen]

It amazes me how many Christians don't understand the cross.

Hell is not going to be full of people Christ died for, reconciled for, was judged for, paid the price for, satisfied God's wrath for.

It amazes me how many Christians don't understand the cross-how many have abandoned the faith that was handed down from the beginning in favor of a novel version of the gospel.
It amazes me how Christians often cherry-pick Scripture, holding on to the passages that encourage and exhort while ignoring or re-interpreting passages that bring balance with warnings and admonishments.

Jesus paid the price for all. Some will care, and come to Him, some will not. And some will remain with Him while others will fail to remain. No one knows with 100% certainty who the elect are to begin with, and no one can predict their own perseverance anyway.

“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame. Heb 6:4-6

“You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.” Rom 11:19-22

If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Pet 2:20-22

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Jesus paid the price for all.

If He paid the price for all, no one would go to hell. Because there would be nothing left to pay for, no sin, no judgement from God because God is not going to judge the sin twice, the sin He already judged His Son for.

Some will care, and come to Him, some will not, and some will remain with Him while others will fail to remain. No one knows with 100% certainty who the elect are to begin with, and no one can predict their own perseverance anyway.

This is what all the false religions teach. Do this, do that and God will surely accept you. People trying to get to heaven by their own righteousness. This was exactly the problem of the pharisees of Jesus' time. They knew the law so well, they knew the word of God better than anyone. They lived better than others, they fast more that others, they sacrificed more than others, they kept more rituals and traditions than others, yet Jesus called them the children of the devil. Because they could not see their own sin, they didn't see their need for the Saviour. They looked perfect outwardly, but inwards, their were full of sins, like all of us are.

Pharisees hid by the law, thinking keeping it would save them. Yet it condemned them to God's wrath. The law was given to show them their sin and show them the need for a Saviour. When Christ came, He showed us the impossible standard it requires to go to Heaven. One has to be holy, perfect, without a sin.

But me, I'm just a sinner, there is nothing in me God would desire, my good deeds are nothing, they will not redeem even the smallest sin. And I deserve God's full wrath and I deserve it all. Who we will help me? My only hope is in Christ and His perfect work on the cross. Even this was not revealed to me by my own mind, but by the Father, gracefully. I know nothing on my own.

Those who think they have some righteousness in them that will help them to get to Heaven are missing the gospel, they think they do not need healing. But I do. I need Christ alone.

Jesus' message is simple. Everyone who tries to justify themselves before God with their own deeds, will fail, and they condemn themselves. But those who submit to God's justice will be justly pardoned by Him. Romans 10:3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

No one can make themselves justified before God. God alone justifies the one who has faith in Jesus (Romans 3:26). As Christ said in Luke 16:15 “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

Titus 3 4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame. Heb 6:4-6

This passage is written not about Christians but about unbelievers who are convinced of the basic truths of the gospel but who have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior. They are intellectually persuaded but spiritually uncommitted.

The phrase once enlightened (Hebrews 6:4) refers to some level of instruction in biblical truth. However, understanding the words of Scripture is not the same as being regenerated by the Holy Spirit. For example, John 1:9 describes Jesus, the “true Light,” giving light “to every man”; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. Through God’s sovereign power, every man has enough light to be held responsible. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject such light. The people described in Hebrews 6:4–6 are of the latter group—unbelievers who have been exposed to God’s redemptive truth and perhaps have made a profession of faith, but who have not exercised genuine saving faith.

The “falling away” in Hebrews 6:6 is a reference to those who have tasted the truth but, not having come all the way to faith, fall away from even the revelation they have been given. The tasting of truth is not enough to keep them from falling away from it. They must come all the way to Christ in complete repentance and faith; otherwise, they in effect re-crucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously. Those who sin against Christ in such a way have no hope of restoration or forgiveness because they reject Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with His enemies. It is impossible to renew such to repentance.

“You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.” Rom 11:19-22

Romans 11:9 does not teach that salvation can be lost. The passage is primarily about God's sovereign plan concerning the Jewish people and their relationship to the covenant. It uses the analogy of an olive tree to illustrate how God can remove some branches (unbelieving Jews) and graft in others (believing Gentiles).

If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Pet 2:20-22

2 Peter 20 is often cited as a passage suggesting salvation can be lost, but it's about a warning against the false teachers and the dangers of backsliding. The passage focuses on the impact of false teachers and their destructive influence, not on the possibility of a true believer losing their salvation.

Romans 8 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So please tell me how can you lose salvation when nothing can separate us from the love of God.

If you are in Christ, you can be assured for your salvation. Galatians 4:1
“Now I say, as long as the heir as a child, he doesn’t differ at all from a slave though he is owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, ‘Abba! Father!’ Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.”

This is about sonship. This is about the great doctrine of adoption, adoption. Verse 5: “We have received the adoption as sons.” There are many aspects of the doctrine of salvation, regeneration, conversion, justification. This is the doctrine of adoption, the doctrine of adoption, one of the magnificent realities in the glorious complex of our salvation. We have been adopted into the family of God, and are sons of God. Then how can we lose our salvation?

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.”

He chose us, He predestined us to adoption as sons. This is adoption. Adoption is a choice. Adoption takes place when someone makes a child out of someone born into another family. Adoption is when you take a child born to another family and bring that child into your family. That is exactly what God does with us.

God’s astounding love is the cause, the motive, the drive behind our adoption. He loves the Son, He places us in the Son, and He loves us the way He loves the Son. We see that laid out so magnificently in the seventeenth chapter of John, where our Lord prays and binds those for whom He prays, all believers together with Himself and with the Father, in this bond of love. We are loved by the Father because Christ is loved. We are blessed by the Father because Christ is blessed. We inherit all that Christ inherits because we are in Christ.

This is how we are to understand our adoption. We have been placed into His true Son, and therefore are heirs of everything God possesses. This is adoption. God graciously places justified, regenerated, sanctified believers into His own family by placing into union with His beloved Son, so that in Him they become sons of God.

Please do not rely on yourself for salvation. You will fail. Always rely on the perfect work on Christ on the cross.

Now I do not say, now you are saved do whatever you want, you are under grace, sin, it does not matter. God forbid I even think of such blasphemy. But if you are truly saved, you will behave like a bride who is going to marry the one she loves the most. And what does a bride do? Does she wait sitting on the bed for her wedding? No. She tells everyone, she prepares, she grows in love. And this is how God wants us to live. We become more and more like Christ. We turn from evil, we hate sin, we sin less, we love more (not just people who love us, but everyone including our enemies) and more because the Holy Spirit is in us and produces this. Sin still matters, it is still deadly, it still has consequences. But it does not mean you lose your salvation the moment you sin.

 

[fhansen]

If He paid the price for all, no one would go to hell. Because there would be nothing left to pay for, no sin, no judgement from God because God is not going to judge the sin twice, the sin He already judged His Son for.

We could trade verses all day long:
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Pet 3:9

"For God so loved the world..."John 3:16

The point is that all are offered the gift of eternal life, the gift of Himself, because that's the nature of love, of His love for His own creation. A gift, as well as a choice, a calling, a beckoning:
If you open the door..., If you remain in Me..., If you love Me...Come to Me all you who are weary..., Everyone who hears my words and obeys them...

This passage is written not about Christians but about unbelievers who are convinced of the basic truths of the gospel but who have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior. They are intellectually persuaded but spiritually uncommitted.

Of course, about unbelievers who've been enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift. It's a choice. Look at John 12:42-43 to see that belief is something, a gift, actually, that must be embraced and acted upon.
"Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved human praise more than praise from God."

Romans 11:9 does not teach that salvation can be lost. The passage is primarily about God's sovereign plan concerning the Jewish people and their relationship to the covenant. It uses the analogy of an olive tree to illustrate how God can remove some branches (unbelieving Jews) and graft in others (believing Gentiles).

It just means what it says-Gentile believers can be cut back off from their vital connection to the Vine.

2 Peter 20 is often cited as a passage suggesting salvation can be lost, but it's about a warning against the false teachers and the dangers of backsliding. The passage focuses on the impact of false teachers and their destructive influence, not on the possibility of a true believer losing their salvation.

A dangerous, faith ship-wrecking, life threatening, possibility. No need to desparately seek weak work-arounds. Novel answers abound, most of them at least a bit lame.

Romans 8 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Yes, whoever the "us" were that Paul was speaking of there. Either way, we'll know with absolute certainty in the next life. And I doubt that everyone Paul was addressing or who first heard that letter read necessarily ended up saved, for that matter. Meanwhile, if we're producing good fruit then we can trust, having strong assurance, that He'll be bringing us home to Himself.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You might want to look a little closer:

5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

In view is the Covenant of Law. Moses was faithful, but those with counterfeit faith were not.


6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

While the LOST (loss of salvation teachers) read this and do not see unbelievers, but born-again believers, the question I have to ask is, have they never read Hebrews?


7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


The writer is speaking about Hebrew brethren. That's not up for debate, it's just a fact.

And what he is doing is telling his Hebrew audience that they be careful not to replicate the error of their forebears in the desert. Throughout the Epistle, the writer will contrast the Covenant of Law and the New Covenant. It is his goal to encourage those among the Hebrew people who have not yet progressed from the Covenant of Law to embrace the New Covenant. When you read Hebrews, we need to be aware of this, or, we will end up yanking proof-texts out of their context to support doctrines contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

God bless.

You are the one who needs to look closer. How convenient for you to only quote Hebrews 3:5-14 and not include verse 1.

Here are the ones being addressed in Hebrews 3:14.

Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Don't waste your time trying to convince me that any of the "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" have counterfeit faith.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Are you sure about that?

Yes.