Who Do You Believe?

AV1611VET · May 22, 2024

In 1967 Louis Armstrong popularized this song:

At the same time, the University of Michigan was saying this:

During the late 1960s, an “environmental crisis” took shape as a series of environmental catastrophes and revelatory books transformed the American environmental consciousness. Soon before the crisis took its final form, several immensely popular books including Rachel Carson’s 1962 Silent Spring and Ralph Nader’s 1965 Unsafe at Any Speed pushed the public to question the relationship between the government, tasked with protecting the public interest, and industries, incentivized to act in their own economic interests. Pervasive smog in New York City and Los Angeles, the Santa Barbara oil spill, and the Cuyahoga River fires made headlines and frightened Americans across the country. Paul Ehrlich’s book The Population Bomb (1968) connected the dots and helped the public realize that the issues were all related: an exponentially growing population meant an increasing demand for limited resources, which led to unwise decisions about resource use. Driven by fear and empowered with information, the American public was poised to demand change.

Question:

Who do you believe?

AlexB23 · May 22, 2024

AV1611VET said:
In 1967 Louis Armstrong popularized this song:

At the same time, the University of Michigan was saying this:

During the late 1960s, an “environmental crisis” took shape as a series of environmental catastrophes and revelatory books transformed the American environmental consciousness. Soon before the crisis took its final form, several immensely popular books including Rachel Carson’s 1962 Silent Spring and Ralph Nader’s 1965 Unsafe at Any Speed pushed the public to question the relationship between the government, tasked with protecting the public interest, and industries, incentivized to act in their own economic interests. Pervasive smog in New York City and Los Angeles, the Santa Barbara oil spill, and the Cuyahoga River fires made headlines and frightened Americans across the country. Paul Ehrlich’s book The Population Bomb (1968) connected the dots and helped the public realize that the issues were all related: an exponentially growing population meant an increasing demand for limited resources, which led to unwise decisions about resource use. Driven by fear and empowered with information, the American public was poised to demand change.

Question:

Who do you believe?

I believe in God, the Bible, and human-caused global warming (as Psalms 111:2 says we can study God's creation). Plus, Louis Armstrong's songs are beautiful, and make me tear up.

My favorite is "Wonderful World", or "Over the Rainbow" (reminds me of Noah's Ark and God's promise).

The verses on stewardship are below, from Genesis, Isaiah and Jeremiah.

The solution (hint, it is not EVs or Musk-mobiles)

d taylor · May 22, 2024

-

Well we will see how beautiful the world will be during the tribulation. With satan running amuck giving the kingdoms of the world to his man for three short years. In exchange for worship, wow glad i wont be here.

AlexB23 · May 22, 2024

d taylor said:
-

Well we will see how beautiful the world will be during the tribulation. With satan running amuck giving the kingdoms of the world to his man for three short years. In exchange for worship, wow glad i wont be here.

We will have to wait and see.

PloverWing · May 22, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Who do you believe?

Can I believe both? It's a wonderful world, and we need to do a better job taking care of it.

Lost4words · May 22, 2024

I believe its a wonderful world because God's creation is truly amazing and because He sent His only Son Our Lord Jesus Christ to save us.

Ophiolite · May 22, 2024

I don't believe in anything. (Setting aside the distinctly different belief found in such statements as "I believe I shall have the corn beef sandwich and a glass of lemonade.") I consider belief as intended by the OP to be a dangerous, self-indulgent fantasy. I explain this thought by way of an example.

I certainly do not believe in human caused global warming. Rather, I accept that the evidence points very clearly to the existence of global warming and to the primary cause being human activity. Therefore I shall conduct myself on the basis that global warming is real and that humans caused it and that it is a problem. But that acceptance is subject to rejection if the weight of evidence changes. Belief, as it is often practiced, is just to emotionally determined, subject to cultural bias, peer pressure and the like.

I acknowledge that my definition of acceptance may accord closely with some people's definition of belief. However, it does not accord with everyone's definition and I wish to distance myself from those in that other camp.

I shall close, regretting that in order to provide an honest response to the OP I may have offended more than 73% of the members. But just remember, if you don't value my opinion it need not offend you.

AlexB23 · May 22, 2024

PloverWing said:
Can I believe both? It's a wonderful world, and we need to do a better job taking care of it.

Agreed 100%. I believe both as well. The Bible even talks about caring for our planet. I love the Bible.

HTacianas · May 22, 2024

AV1611VET said:
In 1967 Louis Armstrong popularized this song:

At the same time, the University of Michigan was saying this:

During the late 1960s, an “environmental crisis” took shape as a series of environmental catastrophes and revelatory books transformed the American environmental consciousness. Soon before the crisis took its final form, several immensely popular books including Rachel Carson’s 1962 Silent Spring and Ralph Nader’s 1965 Unsafe at Any Speed pushed the public to question the relationship between the government, tasked with protecting the public interest, and industries, incentivized to act in their own economic interests. Pervasive smog in New York City and Los Angeles, the Santa Barbara oil spill, and the Cuyahoga River fires made headlines and frightened Americans across the country. Paul Ehrlich’s book The Population Bomb (1968) connected the dots and helped the public realize that the issues were all related: an exponentially growing population meant an increasing demand for limited resources, which led to unwise decisions about resource use. Driven by fear and empowered with information, the American public was poised to demand change.

Question:

Who do you believe?

I'm not sure what the choices are.

AV1611VET · May 22, 2024

AlexB23 said:
I believe in God, the Bible, and human-caused global warming (as Psalms 111:2 says we can study God's creation).

I was going to use the Bible as one of the choices, but the emphasis of this thread is to show that, even in the secular world, there are those who poo-poo doomsday science.

And in this case, both in the same year (1967).

You have one side of the coin talking about God's beautiful Earth, and the other side warning to take swift action.

AlexB23 · May 22, 2024

AV1611VET said:
I was going to use the Bible as one of the choices, but the emphasis of this thread is to show that, even in the secular world, there are those who poo-poo doomsday science.

And in this case, both in the same year (1967).

You have one side of the coin talking about God's beautiful Earth, and the other side warning to take swift action.

The 1960s were a turning point in the US, that is for sure (and high on drugs as well). But, for me, I would pick both sides of the coin: Trust in the Bible, and take moderate, carefully calculated, but not slow, action to help save God's Earth from those warnings in Isaiah and Jeremiah.

By the way, for real coins, the probability of a coin landing on the edge is 1/6000. Guess I am the one in 6000, who supports both sides.

Occams Barber · May 22, 2024

Ophiolite said:
I don't believe in anything. (Setting aside the distinctly different belief found in such statements as "I believe I shall have the corn beef sandwich and a glass of lemonade.") I consider belief as intended by the OP to be a dangerous, self-indulgent fantasy. I explain this thought by way of an example.

I certainly do not believe in human caused global warming. Rather, I accept that the evidence points very clearly to the existence of global warming and to the primary cause being human activity. Therefore I shall conduct myself on the basis that global warming is real and that humans caused it and that it is a problem. But that acceptance is subject to rejection if the weight of evidence changes. Belief, as it is often practiced, is just to emotionally determined, subject to cultural bias, peer pressure and the like.

I acknowledge that my definition of acceptance may accord closely with some people's definition of belief. However, it does not accord with everyone's definition and I wish to distance myself from those in that other camp.

I shall close, regretting that in order to provide an honest response to the OP I may have offended more than 73% of the members. But just remember, if you don't value my opinion it need not offend you.

I agree.

I have a very deliberate policy of avoiding use of the word 'belief' in CF posts. Christian use of 'belief', without evidence, is disturbing.

I also tend to deliberately use conditional wording like 'maybe', possibly', perhaps'. Many Christians have a habit of using absolute, black and white, reasoning - they are always 100% right.

OB

AV1611VET · May 22, 2024

Occams Barber said:
I have a very deliberate policy of avoiding use of the word 'belief' in CF posts. Christian use of 'belief', without evidence, is disturbing.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

d taylor · May 22, 2024

AV1611VET said:
I was going to use the Bible as one of the choices, but the emphasis of this thread is to show that, even in the secular world, there are those who poo-poo doomsday science.

And in this case, both in the same year (1967).

You have one side of the coin talking about God's beautiful Earth, and the other side warning to take swift action.

Occams Barber · May 22, 2024

AV1611VET said:
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Thank you for providing the Bible quote which proves my point.

If this attitude of belief without evidence were confined to religious concepts it would be less disturbing. Unfortunately, many Christians seem to extend the idea beyond religion to things like conspiracy theories.

OB

d taylor · May 22, 2024

-

Belief is a very scary idea to unbelievers, especially unbelievers of science. To them this world cannot exist, so it is negated to the fairy closet.

AlexB23 · May 22, 2024

Occams Barber said:
I agree.

I have a very deliberate policy of avoiding use of the word 'belief' in CF posts. Christian use of 'belief', without evidence, is disturbing.

I also tend to deliberately use conditional wording like 'maybe', possibly', perhaps'. Many Christians have a habit of using absolute, black and white, reasoning - they are always 100% right.

OB

Well, not only do we believe, we have hard, scientific proof of Jesus.

There are rare instances where bread at Catholic churches turn into physical flesh and blood, known as a Eucharistic miracle. But for most times, the bread does not turn into physical flesh or blood from our perspective, but instead transforms into flesh and blood invisibly, known as transubstantiation. I did not believe in transubstantiation, until learning about Eucharistic miracles in late 2021 or early 2022. Eucharistic miracles have been studied by scientists, and in all of the confirmed miracles, the blood was type AB. In other Eucharistic miracles, the Catholic church has dismissed some, as red fungus sometimes grows on old bread. So, rigorous scientific testing is used to confirm these miracles.

Eucharistic miracles: https://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/english_pdf/Lanciano2.pdf

This 9 minute video talks about type AB blood discovered on Eucharistic miracles (ages 15+ because of blood):

The host of the video be lookin' kinda fine, bro, but that is besides the point.

Anyways, I am off to watch Dune 2, cos sci-fi is good stuff.

Occams Barber · May 22, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Well, not only do we believe, we have hard, scientific proof of Jesus.

Alex - you disappoint me.

A YouTube video and someone's religious website hardly amount to "hard scientific proof" of eucharistic miracles or proof of the existence of Jesus.*

There's a saying attributed to Carl Sagan that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

In this case your evidence is less than ordinary.

*For the record: I accept that Jesus probably existed as an influential rabbi of his time. These eucharistic claims however do not prove his existence or his alleged divinity.

OB

AlexB23 · May 22, 2024

Occams Barber said:
Alex - you disappoint me.

A YouTube video and someone's religious website hardly amount to "hard scientific proof" of eucharistic miracles or proof of the existence of Jesus.*

There's a saying attributed to Carl Sagan that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

In this case your evidence is less than ordinary.

*For the record: I accept that Jesus probably existed as an influential rabbi of his time. These eucharistic claims however do not prove his existence or his alleged divinity.

OB

Well, you do you. But for me, nothing will shake my faith in Jesus, and faith and science go hand in hand my friend.

Occams Barber · May 22, 2024

AlexB23 said:
Well, you do you. But for me, nothing will shake my faith in Jesus, and faith and science go hand in hand my friend.

I'm questioning your 'evidence' - not your faith.

Incidentally your unquestioning acceptance of this stuff only confirms the Christian tendency to all too readily accept unverified concepts where they provide confirmation bias.

OB

Who Do You Believe?

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Christian

Well-Known Member

Christian

Episcopalian

Jesus I Trust In You

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

Christian

Well-Known Member

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Christian

Newbie

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Christian

Newbie

Christian

Newbie

Similar threads