Reconciled to God while enemies !

Brightfame52 · Feb 27, 2024

setst777 said:
The death of His Son reconciles to God those who "were" enemies to God. They were enemies, but no longer, because they are believers. The death of Christ will only reconcile to God those who believe in Lord Jesus.

John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life

As you can see for yourself, according to John 3:16, "the death of His Son" reconciles to God whoever will believe in him.

Sin, makes us enemies of God, but when the sinner puts his faith in Lord Jesus after hearing the Gospel, then he is reconciled to God by the death of His Son.

What condition were believers in when they were reconciled to Gid by His death according to Rom 5:10?

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

zoidar · Feb 27, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
So why you ask duh

I said I know where we differ, not the reason for your statement I don't believe in Rom 5:10. I wanted to see if you got something new or just the old "the word faith is not in Rom 5:10" - argument. I have told you it does not need to be in the verse to be implied. Yet you go on with the same argument. If you say I don't believe in Rom 5:10, you really need something new to back that up.

Brightfame52 · Feb 27, 2024

zoidar said:
I said I know where we differ, not the reason for your statement I don't believe in Rom 5:10. I wanted to see if you got something new or just the old "the word faith is not in Rom 5:10" - argument. I have told you it does not need to be in the verse to be implied. Yet you go on with the same argument. If you say I don't believe in Rom 5:10, you really need something new to back that up.

If you know we differ you should know why? I have been explaining my views

setst777 · Feb 27, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
What condition were believers in when they were reconciled to Gid by His death according to Rom 5:10?

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

What condition? We [believers] were enemies of God, being dead in sin, when we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son.

Colossians 1:20-23 (WEB) 21 You [Believers], being in past times alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil deeds, 22 yet now he has reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without defect and blameless before him, 23 if it is so that you [Believers] continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the Gospel which you heard, which is being proclaimed in all creation under heaven, of which I, Paul, was made a servant.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

The "us" [believers] who were once enemies of God [at enmity with God because of sin] are reconciled to God by the death of His Son.
That does not mean our faith in Him earns our salvation.
Our faith in Him does not reconcile us to God.
Rather, God offers reconciliation to all sinners by means of the death of His Son for the sins of the world to all who will believe.

Sin puts all mankind at enmity with God, even though people may detest their sinfulness, and how it destroys their lives.
All people are prisoners of sin, and do sin in thought, word, and deed.
God's gracious intention is to have mercy on all people (Romans 11:32).
God so loved the world that he gave his Son to die for us, to satisfy His Justice, providing reconciliation (John 3:16).
God's Gospel Plan (John 3:16) is that any sinner who will believe in His Son is reconciled to God by the death of His Son.
Those sinners who are heavy laden and crushed by their sinful lives, Lord Jesus offers the Gospel, to set them free (Luke 4:18-19; 18:13-14).
The proud and arrogant will resist the drawing of God's Spirit (Acts 7:51) and Gospel Invitation (2 Thess 2:10).

2 Corinthians 5:20-21 (WEB) 20 We are therefore ambassadors on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

zoidar · Feb 28, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
If you know we differ you should know why? I have been explaining my views

A side note: I have never said there isn't two sides to salvation, the part where God's wrath is appeased and the part where we are made righteous. All I'm saying is Rom 5:10 focus on the part by what means we are made righteous, not the part how God's wrath is appeased. This is our disagreement. And to be clear, I never said there are two sides to salvation either. That has not been part of the discussion at all, only the meaning of Rom 5:10.

Brightfame52 · Feb 28, 2024

@setst777

What condition? We [believers] were enemies of God, being dead in sin, when we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son.

Okay so the reconciliation to God by Christs death occurred while being enemies and unbelievers, correct ? According to Rom 5:10

Brightfame52 · Feb 28, 2024

@zoidar

All I'm saying is Rom 5:10 focus on the part by what means we are made righteous, not the part how God's wrath is appeased.

Yeah we disagree, both are true of Rom 5:10, can you imagine being reconciled to God and under His wrath at the same time ? Reconcilition means peace with God

Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

zoidar · Feb 28, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
@zoidar

Yeah we disagree, both are true of Rom 5:10, can you imagine being reconciled to God and under His wrath at the same time ? Reconcilition means peace with God

Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Can you imagine being reconciled to God and still be engaged in evil deeds?

And although you were formerly (before reconciliation) alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you (no longer engaged in evil deeds) in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach⁠— if indeed you continue in the faith ...
— Colossians 1:21-23

You see? Formerly engaged in evil deeds, now reconciled through death, to what? Continue living in sin? No, to present you holy, freed from evil living. Reconciliation actually changes us, not God.

Brightfame52 · Feb 28, 2024

@zoidar

Can you imagine being reconciled to God and still be engaged in evil deeds?

Yes, they were reconciled to God while being enemies Rom 5:10

setst777 · Feb 28, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
@setst777

Okay so the reconciliation to God by Christs death occurred while being enemies and unbelievers, correct ? According to Rom 5:10

Partially correct. "Romans 5:1-10" does not say they were unbelieving, but rather that they were sinners, enemies of God because of sin, and that the sinner was justified by faith, accessing God's gracious gift of salvation by faith (Romans 5:1-2).

You can't quote "Romans 5:10" as if it was divorced from "Romans 5:1-2," because they are part of the same context.

Reconciliation is not for the righteous but for sinners. Sinners are enemies of God by sin.

While "we" [the believers that Paul wrote to] were yet sinners "we" [the believing sinners] were reconciled to God, and this happened after "we" believed.

John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever [any sinner] believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life

That is the Gospel.

We [believers] were enemies of God, being dead in sin, but when we “sinners” believed, we [the believing sinners] were then reconciled to God by the death of His Son.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Paul would not be begging us to be reconciled to God, if “faith” was God’s work.

2 Corinthians 5:20-21 (WEB) 20 We are therefore ambassadors on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Brightfame52 · Feb 29, 2024

@setst777

Partially correct. "Romans 5:1-10" does not say they were unbelieving, but rather that they were sinners, enemies

Arent enemies and unbelievers the same ? They are enemies in their minds Col 1

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

setst777 · Feb 29, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
@setst777

Arent enemies and unbelievers the same ? They are enemies in their minds Col 1

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

No, they are not the same thing. Our act of believing in God does not negate our sins that make us enemies of God, because God's justice had not yet been satisfied. So, even though a sinner believes, they are still alienated and enemies, because their sins had not yet been paid for.

Lord Jesus had to purchase that reconciliation by his sacrificial death so that the believing sinner now receives that reconciliation by faith.

That is the Gospel, which is being taught all through the NT - that the sinner is justified by faith because of the redemption Christ paid for.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever [any sinner] believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace [reconciliation] with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom [Christ] we [Christians) have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.

So, while we (believers) were yet sinners, God reconciled us (sinful believers) to himself because of Christ's sacrificial death.

setst777 · Feb 29, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
@setst777

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

"Colossians 1:21" is part of the context as follows:

Colossians 1: 21 Once you [the believers] were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation — 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.

What this means is that our faith in Jesus as Lord is not empty, it is always accompanied by repentance so we may be saved, and by this faith, if genuine as described, we are not to continue in our evil behavior:

2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Romans 6:1-3 (WEB) What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

When we put our faith in Lord Jesus, we [believers] have renounced sinful lusts, and now commit to follow Lord Jesus. This is the kind of faith by which a Believer is baptized.

Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing {{{them}}} [the true believers who committed to follow Christ] in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching {{{them}}} [the true believers who committed to follow Christ] to obey everything I have commanded you.

This is the kind of faith by which God chooses to reconcile to himself by Christ's blood, and the true believers whom God indwells by His Spirit: (Acts 5:32; John 14:16-24).

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

Lastly, Paul is teaching that this faith is "your faith" that you are responsible to continue in to remain reconciled to God (vs. 22).

zoidar · Mar 1, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
@setst777

Arent enemies and unbelievers the same ? They are enemies in their minds Col 1

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

It's actually so you can believe the historical facts about Jesus death and resurrection, without having received the sacrifice. To receive Christ you need to repent, not merely believe facts. However, I would call a person just believing facts, an unbeliever, an enemy.

Brightfame52 · Mar 1, 2024

setst777 said:
No, they are not the same thing. Our act of believing in God does not negate our sins that make us enemies of God, because God's justice had not yet been satisfied. So, even though a sinner believes, they are still alienated and enemies, because their sins had not yet been paid for.

Lord Jesus had to purchase that reconciliation by his sacrificial death so that the believing sinner now receives that reconciliation by faith.

That is the Gospel, which is being taught all through the NT - that the sinner is justified by faith because of the redemption Christ paid for.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever [any sinner] believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace [reconciliation] with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom [Christ] we [Christians) have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.

So, while we (believers) were yet sinners, God reconciled us (sinful believers) to himself because of Christ's sacrificial death.

I disagree, enemies and unbelievers are the same.

Brightfame52 · Mar 1, 2024

setst777 said:
"Colossians 1:21" is part of the context as follows:

Colossians 1: 21 Once you [the believers] were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation — 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.

What this means is that our faith in Jesus as Lord is not empty, it is always accompanied by repentance so we may be saved, and by this faith, if genuine as described, we are not to continue in our evil behavior:

2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Romans 6:1-3 (WEB) What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

When we put our faith in Lord Jesus, we [believers] have renounced sinful lusts, and now commit to follow Lord Jesus. This is the kind of faith by which a Believer is baptized.

Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing {{{them}}} [the true believers who committed to follow Christ] in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching {{{them}}} [the true believers who committed to follow Christ] to obey everything I have commanded you.

This is the kind of faith by which God chooses to reconcile to himself by Christ's blood, and the true believers whom God indwells by His Spirit: (Acts 5:32; John 14:16-24).

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

Lastly, Paul is teaching that this faith is "your faith" that you are responsible to continue in to remain reconciled to God (vs. 22).

I know what context Col 1:21 is found in, doesnt change anything, enemies in our minds by wicked works is unbelief

Brightfame52 · Mar 1, 2024

zoidar said:
It's actually so you can believe the historical facts about Jesus death and resurrection, without having received the sacrifice. To receive Christ you need to repent, not merely believe facts. However, I would call a person just believing facts, an unbeliever, an enemy.

According to Rom 5:10 what condition were the believers in when they were reconciled to God ? How were they reconciled to God according to Rom 5:10

zoidar · Mar 1, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
According to Rom 5:10 what condition were the believers in when they were reconciled to God ?

Enemies to God. What you want to ask is if an enemy to God can repent. The answer is "yes"! Or else they couldn't be reconciled to God. Friends of God do not need reconciliation.

You also might want to ask if you can be a friend of God and simultaneously live for sin.

Doug Brents · Mar 1, 2024

Brightfame52 said:
According to Rom 5:10 what condition were the believers in when they were reconciled to God ? How were they reconciled to God according to Rom 5:10

zoidar said:
Enemies to God. What you want to ask is if an enemy to God can repent. The answer is "yes"! Or else they couldn't be reconciled to God. Friends of God do not need reconciliation.

Please note gentlemen, the distinction that Paul makes between reconciliation and salvation.
"For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

Brightfame52 · Mar 1, 2024

zoidar said:
Enemies to God. What you want to ask is if an enemy to God can repent. The answer is "yes"! Or else they couldn't be reconciled to God. Friends of God do not need reconciliation.

You also might want to ask if you can be a friend of God and simultaneously live for sin.

I said nothing about repentance. Im saying the ones Jesus died for are reconciled to God by His death even while being enemies, unbelievers. Nothing to do with repentance

Reconciled to God while enemies !

Well-Known Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads