Reconciled to God while enemies !

Brightfame52

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Answer: The condition the believers were in is "ungodly sinners" when they believed, but these ungodly believers were, at that moment of faith, reconciled to God by his Son's death, being justified by faith.

False according to Rom 5:10 they were reconciled to God by Christs death while being enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
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setst777

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False according to Rom 5:10 they were reconciled to God by Christs death while being enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Lord Jesus calls sinners to repentance, not the righteous. Yes, we (believers) were reconciled to God by the death of his Son. No one that I know of disagrees with that, but Paul taught that this reconciliation with God by Christ's death is for those who believe (we). That is the Gospel - that justification, peace with God, and salvation are all from God, are all access by faith in Lord Jesus. That is the Gospel.

You can say what Paul taught about "faith" in "Romans 4," and summarized in "Romans 5:1-2," is all false, but your words do not make God's Words false.

What you are doing with "Romans 5:10" is taking one quote out of its context, and then making it appear as if faith has nothing to do with how we receive righteousness, justification, and reconciliation. However, anyone reading Romans 4 and 5, can see how you isolated the quote "Romans 5:10" out of context to make it appear as if it agrees with you.

In Chapter 4 of Romans, Paul just got done explaining in 24 verses how we are justified, accredited righteousness, and are declared righteous by faith in Lord Jesus, the same faith that Abraham had, the father of faith. Paul clearly states that the Promises of God are by faith (Romans 4:16).

Then, starting in Romans 5:1-2, Paul sums up everything he taught in the 24 verses of Romans 4 about faith with the connecting words "Being therefore."

Romans 5:1-2 (WEB) {{{Being therefore}}} justified by faith, we have peace [reconciliation] with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Therefore, in the rest of "Romans 5," Paul is not contradicting everything he taught in "Romans 4:1-24" and summarized "Romans 5:1-2;" rather, Paul now explains, in the rest of Romans 5, what we [believers] possess in Christ by his sacrificial death.

You think that by making Paul contradict himself by your mishandling of his Epistle, by isolating one verse out of context, that you are right and Paul was in error when he plainly taught that sinners who believe in Lord Jesus are justified, declared righteous, accredited righteousness, and reconciled to God, by faith.

And, I have noticed in all your messages that you follow the same error of isolating verses from their context and force a meaning that is the complete opposite of what the Apostolic Writer actually had plainly taught when read in context, just as you do with "Romans 5:10."

That is why hardly anyone that knows how you abuse God's Word wants to communicate with you. Twisting of the Scriptures like that is an abomination.

Just as in the past communications with you, I was patient with you the past several days to see if you had at least some honor as you discussed God's holy Word, but again, just as you have done many times previously, you ignore the context and force your own meaning into isolated verses that are not supported by the context. I marvel at your disregard for the context of God's holy Word and the Gospel.

So, I say to you, "Go your own way until the end." Everyone will answer to God, and God judges righteously.
 
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Brightfame52

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Lord Jesus calls sinners to repentance, not the righteous. Yes, we (believers) were reconciled to God by the death of his Son. No one that I know of disagrees with that, but Paul taught that this reconciliation with God by Christ's death is for those who believe (we). That is the Gospel - that justification, peace with God, and salvation are all from God, are all access by faith in Lord Jesus. That is the Gospel.

You can say what Paul taught about "faith" in "Romans 4," and summarized in "Romans 5:1-2," is all false, but your words do not make God's Words false.

What you are doing with "Romans 5:10" is taking one quote out of its context, and then making it appear as if faith has nothing to do with how we receive righteousness, justification, and reconciliation. However, anyone reading Romans 4 and 5, can see how you isolated the quote "Romans 5:10" out of context to make it appear as if it agrees with you.

In Chapter 4 of Romans, Paul just got done explaining in 24 verses how we are justified, accredited righteousness, and are declared righteous by faith in Lord Jesus, the same faith that Abraham had, the father of faith. Paul clearly states that the Promises of God are by faith (Romans 4:16).

Then, starting in Romans 5:1-2, Paul sums up everything he taught in the 24 verses of Romans 4 about faith with the connecting words "Being therefore."

Romans 5:1-2 (WEB) {{{Being therefore}}} justified by faith, we have peace [reconciliation] with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Therefore, in the rest of "Romans 5," Paul is not contradicting everything he taught in "Romans 4:1-24" and summarized "Romans 5:1-2;" rather, Paul now explains, in the rest of Romans 5, what we [believers] possess in Christ by his sacrificial death.

You think that by making Paul contradict himself by your mishandling of his Epistle, by isolating one verse out of context, that you are right and Paul was in error when he plainly taught that sinners who believe in Lord Jesus are justified, declared righteous, accredited righteousness, and reconciled to God, by faith.

And, I have noticed in all your messages that you follow the same error of isolating verses from their context and force a meaning that is the complete opposite of what the Apostolic Writer actually had plainly taught when read in context, just as you do with "Romans 5:10."

That is why hardly anyone that knows how you abuse God's Word wants to communicate with you. Twisting of the Scriptures like that is an abomination.

Just as in the past communications with you, I was patient with you the past several days to see if you had at least some honor as you discussed God's holy Word, but again, just as you have done many times previously, you ignore the context and force your own meaning into isolated verses that are not supported by the context. I marvel at your disregard for the context of God's holy Word and the Gospel.

So, I say to you, "Go your own way until the end." Everyone will answer to God, and God judges righteously.
False according to Rom 5:10 they were reconciled to God by Christs death while being enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
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zoidar

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False according to Rom 5:10 they were reconciled to God by Christs death while being enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
You didn't want go there, but this is where it takes us. I believe this is where we differ, and the reason we don't have a common understanding om Rom 5:10. Would you say you can repent as an enemy of God? Or do you say you need first to be a friend of God to be able to repent?

I believe as an enemy of God you need to repent to to become a friend of God, meaningly reconciled through faith in Christ death. I think your view is: An enemy of God can't repent, until becoming a friend of God, by reconcilation through Christ death.

Maybe this translation will be helpful for the case?

King James Bible
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
- Romans 5:10


Or even better:

Webster's Bible Translation
For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
- Romans 5:10
 
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Brightfame52

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You didn't want go there, but this is where it takes us. I believe this is where we differ, and the reason we don't have a common understanding om Rom 5:10. Would you say you can repent as an enemy of God? Or do you say you need first to be a friend of God to be able to repent?

I believe as an enemy of God you need to repent to to become a friend of God, meaningly reconciled through faith in Christ death. I think your view is an enemy of God can't repent, until becoming a friend of God, by reconcilation through Christ death.

Maybe this translation will be helpful for the case?

King James Bible
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
- Romans 5:10
You in error in what you believe.
 
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zoidar

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According to Rom 5:10, when were they reconciled to God by the death of His Son ?
They were reconciled when they were enemies.

Would you say they are still enemies after been reconciled? If no longer enemies, what are they after reconciliation?
 
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Brightfame52

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They did not have faith in Christ, so yes unbelievers in that sense.
Okay so they were unbelievers in Christ when they were reconciled to God by His Sons death for them. So with that in mind, were they condemned by God while they were unbelievers reconciled to Him. Yes or No
 
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zoidar

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According to Rom 5:10 what promise is annexed to them Christ reconciled to God by His death while or when they were being enemies ? 24
The only promise annexed in Rom 5:10 is to friends of God, not enemies. If they were reconciled as enemies, much more will they be saved to eternal life now as friends of God.
Okay so they were unbelievers in Christ when they were reconciled to God by His Sons death for them. So with that in mind, were they condemned by God while they were unbelievers reconciled to Him. Yes or No
There are no unbelievers that have been reconciled to God. When unbelievers are reconciled to God they are saved believers. Only believers have been reconciled to God. And yes, while being unbelievers they were under condemnation and as saved believers (after reconcilation) they are naturally no longer under condemnation.
 
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Brightfame52

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The only promise annexed in Rom 5:10 is to friends of God, not enemies. If they were reconciled as enemies, much more will they be saved to eternal life now as friends of God.

There are no unbelievers that have been reconciled to God. When unbelievers are reconciled to God they are saved believers. Only believers have been reconciled to God. And yes, while being unbelievers they were under condemnation and as saved believers (after reconcilation) they are naturally no longer under condemnation.
According to Rom 5:10 what promise is annexed to them Christ reconciled to God by His death while or when they were being enemies ?
 
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zoidar

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According to Rom 5:10 what promise is annexed to them Christ reconciled to God by His death while or when they were being enemies ?
There is no promise in Rom 5:10 to any enemies of God.
 
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