Orthodox view on Christmas

jesuslover811

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I ask in Orthodox because I was looking in old treads and some said the church does not allow Orthodox to eat blood. If Deuteronomy 12:4 says: "4You shall not worship the LORD your God in this way. " I hope we can all agree Christmas is pagan. So why would celebrate Christmas? Even if Jesus made it so we do not have to follow the law does it not still displease God? I think he is a being with feelings and beliefs similar to us. If it displeases God enough for him to make a command about it should we not respect his feelings?

How could the Lord go from hating something to liking it or allowing it? What could possibly change his mind?

Should we not apply this same logic to almost every commandment outside of sacrifice? its not against the US law to displease our parents but that does not mean we should. It is my personal opinion that we should not celebrate these holidays and observe the Torah. But this could be a horrible uneducated take and I would love some feedback.

side question: If Mosaic law commands Jews to put some people to death why don't they anymore? according to them they hung Jesus on Passover and they stoned saint Steven to death. Are they not going against the law of Moses? would past rabbis look down on Jews? I know the law says to not murder but its not murder in the bible to kill a guilty person correct?

" Whatever I command you, BE CAREFUL TO OBSERVE IT; you shall not add to it nor take away from it

for more context

“When the Lord your God cuts off from before you the nations which you go to dispossess, and you displace them and dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ YOU SHALL NOT WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD IN THAT WAY; for every abomination to the Lord which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. Whatever I command you, BE CAREFUL TO OBSERVE IT; you shall not add to it nor take away from it” (Deuteronomy 12:29-32).

Deuteronomy 12
1These are the statutes and ordinances you must be careful to follow all the days you live in the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, has given you to possess. 2Destroy completely all the places where the nations you are dispossessing have served their gods—atop the high mountains, on the hills, and under every green tree. 3Tear down their altars, smash their sacred pillars, burn up their Asherah poles, cut down the idols of their gods, and wipe out their names from every place. 4You shall not worship the LORD your God in this way.

EDIT: Before you call me out for having a icon as my PFP and saying I observe the Torah I have been meaning to change that and I just remembered!
 
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prodromos

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I hope we can all agree Christmas is pagan.
No chance of that. The Feast of the Nativity of Christ has no pagan elements. The date chosen for the feast, December 25, held no significance for pagans. There were no annual festivals held on this date by pagans. What did occur around that time (Saturnalia) always ended before December 25 and the festival announced by Emperor Aurelian on December 25 actually occured in October and only every 4th year Much of what is put forward as historical fact regarding pagans and December 25 is completely false.
 
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prodromos

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Christ left His Church with authority to bind and loose. The Church has seen fit to establish feast days and periods of fasting throughout the liturgical year. The Nativity of Christ is just one of those feasts. We celebrate His conception, His presentation at the temple after His birth, His baptism, His miracles and the major events in His ministry, His triumphal entry into Jerusalem, His last supper, His arrest, trial, crucifixion and burial, His resurrection and His ascension. I don't know why people fixate on Christmas and ignore all the other feast days we celebrate.
 
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Norbert L

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I hope we can all agree Christmas is pagan.
There is a reason why an entire synagogue got so angry they wanted kill Jesus because He brought up Naaman. When it comes to bowing down in pagan temples, Elisha speaking for the Lord says He is at peace with it when a person recognizes Him as the LORD. 2 Kings 5:17-18

By extension should you be intolerant about things that the LORD finds acceptable?
 
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jesuslover811

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No chance of that. The Feast of the Nativity of Christ has no pagan elements. The date chosen for the feast, December 25, held no significance for pagans. There were no annual festivals held on this date by pagans. What did occur around that time (Saturnalia) always ended before December 25 and the festival announced by Emperor Aurelian on December 25 actually occured in October and only every 4th year Much of what is put forward as historical fact regarding pagans and December 25 is completely false.
this is amazing thank you for your input I must look into this!
 
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SuperCow

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No chance of that. The Feast of the Nativity of Christ has no pagan elements. The date chosen for the feast, December 25, held no significance for pagans. There were no annual festivals held on this date by pagans. What did occur around that time (Saturnalia) always ended before December 25 and the festival announced by Emperor Aurelian on December 25 actually occured in October and only every 4th year Much of what is put forward as historical fact regarding pagans and December 25 is completely false.

The nativity scene is not pagan, but Christmas trees, mistletoe, wreaths, candles, gifts, and singing were all part of Saturnalia, even though it typically was celebrated Dec.17-24, not the 25th. Singing and gifts can be done any time of the year I suppose, but I think St. Nicholas would would be offended at what has become of his persona in the last two centuries. Flying reindeer and a godlike being giving gifts to everyone on the earth in one night, but only for the good kids because he "knows" definitely seems like a non-Christian concept to me.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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The nativity scene is not pagan, but Christmas trees, mistletoe, wreaths, candles, gifts, and singing were all part of Saturnalia, even though it typically was celebrated Dec.17-24, not the 25th. Singing and gifts can be done any time of the year I suppose, but I think St. Nicholas would would be offended at what has become of his persona in the last two centuries. Flying reindeer and a godlike being giving gifts to everyone on the earth in one night, but only for the good kids because he "knows" definitely seems like a non-Christian concept to me.

Sigh...
Christmas tree: Modern Christmas trees originated during the Renaissance in early modern Germany. Its 16th-century origins are sometimes associated with Protestant Christian reformer Martin Luther, who is said to have first added lighted candles to an evergreen tree.

The first reference to Santa's sleigh being pulled by a reindeer appears in Old Santeclaus with Much Delight, an 1821 illustrated children's poem published in New York.
 
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Lukaris

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jesuslover811

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Sigh...
Christmas tree: Modern Christmas trees originated during the Renaissance in early modern Germany. Its 16th-century origins are sometimes associated with Protestant Christian reformer Martin Luther, who is said to have first added lighted candles to an evergreen tree.

The first reference to Santa's sleigh being pulled by a reindeer appears in Old Santeclaus with Much Delight, an 1821 illustrated children's poem published in New York.
>Modern Christmas trees
Doesn't this imply that there were Christmas trees before the Renaissance? still a holiday with pagan roots?

EDIT: image is of a Assyrian holiday with a sacred tree atleast 600BC
 

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GreekOrthodox

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Considering Christmas trees are not part of eastern European culture, you most likely wouldn't find them in an Orthodox church in Greece prior to the 1800s. They have their start in northern Europe, not us.
 
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Lukaris

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We do not worship the creation but our Creator ( John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-18 etc.). We do not fear the creation since our Creator called it “good” ( Genesis 1, see verses 10, 12, 18, 21, 25, and 31). We celebrate our Lord’s baptism in which He redeemed creation as the conclusion of His Nativity ( Matthew 3:13-17 etc., Romans 8:21-23).
 
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prodromos

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>Modern Christmas trees
Doesn't this imply that there were Christmas trees before the Renaissance? still a holiday with pagan roots?

EDIT: image is of a Assyrian holiday with a sacred tree atleast 600BC
People see what they want to see. I don't know about you but the more I look at that picture you attached, the less I can see any tree. It has a central motif on top of a column and then that same motif is repeated around the perimeter. The motif looks nothing like the leaves of a tree. If it was highlighted in red instead of green then it could easily be understood to represent fire of some sort. Colour me skeptical but I don't see an evergreen tree there.
 
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ArmyMatt

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The nativity scene is not pagan, but Christmas trees, mistletoe, wreaths, candles, gifts, and singing were all part of Saturnalia, even though it typically was celebrated Dec.17-24, not the 25th.

actually, by the time Christmas was a separate feast (the main winter feast was Theophany) the Empire was already Christian and had been for a while. so this notion that it was Saturnalia is just false.
 
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ArmyMatt

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>Modern Christmas trees
Doesn't this imply that there were Christmas trees before the Renaissance? still a holiday with pagan roots?

EDIT: image is of a Assyrian holiday with a sacred tree atleast 600BC

that tree looks nothing like a Christmas tree.
 
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prodromos

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The nativity scene is not pagan, but Christmas trees, mistletoe, wreaths, candles, gifts, and singing were all part of Saturnalia, even though it typically was celebrated Dec.17-24, not the 25th. Singing and gifts can be done any time of the year I suppose, but I think St. Nicholas would would be offended at what has become of his persona in the last two centuries. Flying reindeer and a godlike being giving gifts to everyone on the earth in one night, but only for the good kids because he "knows" definitely seems like a non-Christian concept to me.
You will find singing at an Eastern Orthodox Nativity celebration, and candles (not on a tree though, Fire hazard much?!) but they are part of the liturgy all year round. Exchanging of gifts was originally associated with the life of St Nicholas in the West and St Basil in the East. Since their feast days occur close to that of the Nativity of our Lord, the gift giving became conflated with the larger feast day. Christmas trees, mistletoe and wreaths are not part of the Eastern Orthodox tradition and neither is Santa Claus.
 
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prodromos

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this is amazing thank you for your input I must look into this!
There are a lot of false claims made about December 25 and pagans repeated all over the internet, but very few actually provide any kind of historical references, and those that do will misrepresent them. A primary example of this is Emperor Aurelian instituting the 4 yearly celebration in October. He announced it on December 25 of AD 274, but there was no annual celebration of that announcement on that day.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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The Feast of the Nativity is really simply part of the church's liturgical cycle of

Advent (the Western church year starts with Advent for example)
Nativity
Christ's Baptism and Epiphany / Theophany season
Christ's Presentation in the Temple to Simeon
Lenten season (40 days before Easter / Pascha)
Annunciation (March 25, e.g. 9 months before Dec 25)
Holy Week
Easter / Pascha and the Paschal season
Ascension (40 days after Pascha)
Pentecost (50 days after Pascha)
 
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