Passover For Christians

HARK! said:

I had to jump through some hoops to find it; but I assume that this is the site you are speaking of:

TorahCalendar.com

I've added to my notes for reference.

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Yes I find them the easiest to use.

you can also try the following.

April 30 Calendar – Israel

Hebrew Date Converter - 15th of Nisan, 5746 | Hebcal Jewish Calendar

Filippus said:

Yes I find them the easiest to use.

you can also try the following.

April 30 Calendar – Israel

Hebrew Date Converter - 15th of Nisan, 5746 | Hebcal Jewish Calendar

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https://www.

hebcal.com/converter/?hd=15&hm=Nisan&hy=5746&h2g=1

and

timeanddate.com/calendar/monthly.html?year=2020&month=4&country=34

Filippus said:

The commencement of this Counting of the Omer was marked in Temple times by the bringing of the Omer offering and ended 50 days later with the festival of Shavuot, as described in the Book of Leviticus:

“You shall count from the day after (morrow) the Sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf (Omer, tied bundle of grain) of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete Sabbaths (seven full weeks). You shall count fifty days to the day(morrow) after the seventh Sabbath; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord... and you shall proclaim on this very day, it shall be a holy convocation for you.” (Leviticus 23:15-16,21).


So no it's not the 16th.

Trusting this will help.

Shalom

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i know all this. It was on the 16th THEN...Friday the 14th, Shabbat the 15th and the morrow was the 16th, a Sunday...BTW, how about the Samaritans

Torah Keeper said:

Deuteronomy 16:1 Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the Lord thy God: for in the month of Abib the Lord thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.

You all are saying the Israelites departed at sunrise. This seems to conflict with this verse.

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Thanks for highlighting this scripture. You are correct, they left before sunrise.

I couldn't find the scripture to quote and decided to leave it. It was a while back since I did the study.

See what HARK quoted. this is why they were eating it in a hurry and dressed to leave.

HARK! said:

Follow this:

(CLV) Ex 12:11
And as thus shall you eat it, with your waist girded, your sandals on your feet and your stave in your hand. You will eat it in urgent haste. It is the passover to Yahweh.

Why? Because they will be leaving quickly in the morning. When the sun comes up the Egyptians will know who was killing their gods, because YHWH told them to mark their houses with the blood of the Egyptians' false gods. After Yashar El killed off Egypt's false gods; YHWH killed of all of Egypt's firstborn, Yes, YHWH tested Yashar El's faithfulness to him right out of the gate. He made them put their light on a lamp stand, for all the Goyim to see.

Yashar El left spiritual Egypt in the darkness of the 15th, they left the Goyim of Egypt by the light of the 1st day of unleavened.

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Ex12:30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he and all his servants and all the Egyptians. And there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was not a house where someone was not dead. 31 Then he summoned Moses and Aaron by night and said, “Up, go out from among my people, both you and the people of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as you have said. 32 Take your flocks and your herds, as you have said, and be gone, and bless me also!”

After they received the go ahead, they started with the exodus.

LoveGodsWord said:

How confident are you the Jews in biblical times used Astronomical reckonings which you provided above? The history of the Jewish calendar is divided into three periods— (1) the Biblical, the (2) Talmudic, and the (3) post-Talmudic. The biblical calendar rested purely on the observation of the sun and the moon, the second on observation and reckoning, the third entirely on reckoning. The Talmudic period did not start until late in the second century. This means the time of Christ was clearly in the Biblical period of the Jewish calendar and its construction rested purely on the observation of the sun and the moon reckonings through visual observation. Hence the Jews used a visual sighting for the waxing crescent of the moon to determine the first day of their calendar month depending on how clear the day was varied from 1-3.5 days. The Astronomical reckonings as we have them today that you provided in your post uses the moon in conjunction not the visual sighting of the crescent. What this means is that only Astronomical new moons that you have presented can be found through computation while in biblical reckoning of the crescent new moons could only be done through visual observation of the crescent moon which had a 1-3.5 day variation of sighting times. Just some food for thought that perhaps there is nothing you have posted here that is set in concrete.

Take Care.

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I am in agreement with you. That's why I put in the brackets saying I am not claiming its accurate.
We cannot calculate what they observed.

However it gives us an indication.

Shalom

LoveGodsWord said:

How confident are you the Jews in biblical times used Astronomical reckonings which you provided above? The history of the Jewish calendar is divided into three periods— (1) the Biblical, the (2) Talmudic, and the (3) post-Talmudic. The biblical calendar rested purely on the observation of the sun and the moon, the second on observation and reckoning, the third entirely on reckoning. The Talmudic period did not start until late in the second century. This means the time of Christ was clearly in the Biblical period of the Jewish calendar and its construction rested purely on the observation of the sun and the moon through visual observation. Hence the Jews used a visual sighting for the waxing crescent of the moon to determine the first day of their calendar month depending on how clear the day was varied from 1-3.5 days. The Astronomical reckonings as we have them today that you provided in your post uses the moon in conjunction not the visual sighting of the crescent. What this means is that only Astronomical new moons that you have presented can be found through computation while in biblical sighting of the crescent new moons could only be done through visual observation of the crescent moon which had a 1-3.5 day variation of sighting times. Just some food for thought as we are not able to calculate what they observed so perhaps there is nothing you have posted here that is set in concrete.

Take Care.

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I don't believe in the "sighted new moon" theory. It's nothing but problems for anyone who actually tries it. Weather, mountains, buildings, differences in people's eyesight, etc, all confound the situation and everyone can never agree when the "new moon crescent", as they call it, is first visible. In my opinion the day of new moon begins at sunset after the conjunction. All problems solved and everyone is in agreement.

I don't believe that anyone in Biblical times was looking for the new moon to decide when to start Yom Teruah, or the new year, for example. It was all well known years in advance. It is not difficult to know the cycle of the moon. David and Jonathan knew and prepared for the new moon before it happened. A feast was already scheduled. Additionally, a psalm about Yom Teruah mentions blowing the trumpet on the new moon, when the moon is hidden. That's another topic though.

Filippus said:

Thanks for highlighting this scripture. You are correct, they left before sunrise.

I couldn't find the scripture to quote and decided to leave it. It was a while back since I did the study.

See what HARK quoted. this is why they were eating it in a hurry and dressed to leave.



Ex12:30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he and all his servants and all the Egyptians. And there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was not a house where someone was not dead. 31 Then he summoned Moses and Aaron by night and said, “Up, go out from among my people, both you and the people of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as you have said. 32 Take your flocks and your herds, as you have said, and be gone, and bless me also!”

After they received the go ahead, they started with the exodus.

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Well, thank you guys for the info. There is a lot to consider here. The only thing that seems to contradict this is the Last Supper. I am convinced it was a Passover seder. According to your reckoning, it was the 15th, a rest day. But it certainly was not a rest day. Additionally, the only way to make the 3 days and 3 nights work, is if Yeshua was crucified on the 14th, on a Thursday. 2 days of rest then followed. Matsa and Shabbat. This is the only way to make it work. So, we are left with a conundrum. Hark gets around this by saying the Last Supper was not a Passover seder. I believe it was. So, Hark, can you prove somehow it was not?

33 AD is the most commonly accepted date for Yeshua's death because it gives a Friday crucifixion as the RCC teaches. But I think Yeshua could have been crucified as late as 41 AD. I haven't checked into it precisely, but there is a verse that suggests Yeshua was at least 40 when He died.

Clare73 said:

Paul states:
all sinned (Romans 5:12),
where there is no law there is no sin (Romans 5:13),
no one sinned, yet all died (Romans 5:14),
of what sin were they guilty (Romans 5:12)?

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Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Paul is not confused...YOU are...

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Neither Paul nor I are confused. . .we are in agreement.

The guilt of what sin caused their deaths between Adam and Moses?

It's okay to say, "I don't know of what sin they were guilty to cause them to die, do you?"

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Wow are you confused...

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Assertion without Biblical demonstration is without Biblical merit.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

It has to do with your lack of minimal understanding...

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Would that have anything to do with not answering my questions?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Why are you asking if 1 + 1 = 3? You need to understand rudimentary math before we can have a conversation about it...sorry.

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No need to keep dodging. . .just ask for a Biblical explanation if you don't know one.

Romans 5:12-15 can be confusing, as Paul sometimes is (2 Peter 3:16).

This passage is the answer to the question under discussion.
Is that why you won't address it?
.

I worked for DeCA [Defense Commissary Agency the military's supermarket] for 25 years. 14 of that in Korea. In the late 80s-early 90s, at Yonsan, the main Korean base, The base Christian chaplains decided to have a Passover seder. They preached and taught about it, so they decided to, as much as possible, have a Biblical seder. I submitted the special order for what they would need. Not long after a Jewish chaplain came to me for some special orders. I mentioned to him about the Christian chaplains thinking he might be interested. Instead he was very opposed, saying something like "That would not be real, biblical seder." or something like that.

Clare73 said:

Neither Paul nor I are confused. . .we are in agreement.

The guilt of what sin caused their deaths between Adam and Moses?

It's okay to say, "I don't know of what sin they were guilty to cause them to die, do you?"

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Of course if you sin, you are guilty of that sin. That is not in question...

Clare73 said:

Which brings this to mind: "In great Jewish fashion you avoid accountability and questioning by answering questions with questions."

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Not my problem that you do not know the answer...

Clare73 said:

No need to keep dodging. . .just ask for a Biblical explanation if you don't know one.

Romans 5:12-15 can be confusing, as Paul sometimes is (2 Peter 3:16).

This passage is the answer to the question under discussion.
Is that why you won't address it?
.

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I already addressed it, now it is your problem if you can't or won't understand something so simple...

Clare73 said:

Would that have anything to do with not answering my questions?

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no it has to do with your limited understanding regarding such simple concepts...

Clare73 said:

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is without Biblical merit.

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Yet you have shown it...

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Of course if you sin, you are guilty of that sin. That is not in question...

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Strawman. . .

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Not my problem that you do not know the answer...

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Another strawman. . .

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

I already addressed it, now it is your problem if you can't or won't understand something so simple...

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Nowhere on this entire thread have you given the answer to the question: of what sin were they guilty which caused them to die when there was no law to sin against between Adam and Moses?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

no it has to do with your limited understanding regarding such simple concepts...

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Which concepts you were likewise unable to explicate as requested. . .