Mandatory Vaccination against Covid

Lost4words · Dec 22, 2021

If the vaccine really did its job, then one jab would be enough. But, they want to keep pumping more chemicals into people;

Covid-19: Israel plans to give fourth dose of vaccine to over-60s

bekkilyn · Dec 22, 2021

Lost4words said:
If the vaccine really did its job, then one jab would be enough. But, they want to keep pumping more chemicals into people;

Covid-19: Israel plans to give fourth dose of vaccine to over-60s

And pumping out more and more "anti-vaxxers" as more people will eventually get on the "enough is enough" train.

Lost4words · Dec 22, 2021

bekkilyn said:
And pumping out more and more "anti-vaxxers" as more people will eventually get on the "enough is enough" train.

Enough is enough of pumping out endless boosters...

lismore · Dec 22, 2021

prodromos said:
Africa holds 17% of the world's population where only 6% are vaccinated against Covid-19, yet they account for only 3% of the world's Covid deaths.

Hello! Not meaning to sound offensive. But the condition of medical facilities in some African countries can be basic, hence the small 6% vaccination rate. Perhaps also hence the low detection rate of covid both before and after death. God Bless

dogs4thewin · Dec 26, 2021

mindlight said:
Statistically, natural immunity is not better with covid as the survey shows. You are free to post contradictory scientific evidence but you will not find any.

Generally, I agree that we should let our bodies handle it but not in this case. There is a big difference between a healthy immune system and an unhealthy one and with this pandemic, the consideration cannot be simply what works best for me personally.

Those who refuse to take the vaccine are killing others by their irresponsibility since they are five times more likely to contract the virus than vaccinated people. Also since they are taking ten times more hospital beds they are also contributing to higher general strain on the hospital system which in some cases of extreme overcapacity can also result in death.

A 1 % death rate in a population the size of the USA is 3.3 million people. That is about three times more dead people than in all the wars the USA has ever fought and to any sane person is not an acceptable casuality rate.

Flu is not so contagious and its death rate is only 0.1% so one-tenth of covid.

EDIT:

Add extra link about the Natural immunity discussion:

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19...

Please note Israeli and Cleveland studies not been peer reviewed.

I have had both the virus and the vaccine. The virus last December and the vaccine in March. I recently had my antibodies tested as part of my annual blood work and they came back VERY high. I cannot say which one was the reason for the still high antibodies nine and 12 months on. One of my doctors and another medical professional I really trust encouraged me to get a booster I have decided to do so in a couple of weeks ( had a cold at the time) I know it was a cold as I was tested for both the flu and co-vid and both came back negitive. However, I have also decided that unless I can get future boosters with my annual flu vaccine I will only take the single booster.

dogs4thewin · Dec 26, 2021

mindlight said:
When they save lives they do. Life trumps freedom.

Depends on the issue there are some things that may well save a life, but a person chooses not to do. This usually shows up in the context of medical treatment that people either find worse than the issue it is meant to treat or simply not worth it given certain factors.

hedrick · Dec 26, 2021

dogs4thewin said:
I have had both the virus and the vaccine. The virus last December and the vaccine in March. I recently had my antibodies tested as part of my annual blood work and they came back VERY high. I cannot say which one was the reason for the still high antibodies nine and 12 months on. One of my doctors and another medical professional I really trust encouraged me to get a booster I have decided to do so in a couple of weeks ( had a cold at the time) I know it was a cold as I was tested for both the flu and co-vid and both came back negitive. However, I have also decided that unless I can get future boosters with my annual flu vaccine I will only take the single booster.

The data I've seen says that having recovered and having been vaccinated gives considerably better protection than either alone, so your results aren't surprising.

Moderna already has a single shot for both Flu and Covid. I assume there will be further developments by next Fall.

If you get it now, the booster should be good for the Spring. Covid typically dies down during the summer. So it's unlikely a booster will be needed until the next Flu shot.

godleadyoursoul · Jan 1, 2022

The fact that they are not only using fear to divide us, but using fear to keep everybody in line is concerning. The fact Christians are gatekeeping their fellow Christian is concerning and the reason that is, is because most people just got on with it prior to being bombarded with the propaganda, so you know that their plan was to have the people fighting it out amongst each other. I'm very surprised more Christians are not seeing all the red flags.

stevil · Jan 14, 2022

Lost4words said:
If the vaccine really did its job, then one jab would be enough. But, they want to keep pumping more chemicals into people

This is nonsense.

If food really did its job then we shouldn't need to eat more than once in our lives.
If driving to work did its job then we shouldn't need to drive to work more than once, but they want you to drive into work every day of the working week.

Lost4words · Jan 14, 2022

stevil said:
This is nonsense.

If food really did its job then we shouldn't need to eat more than once in our lives.
If driving to work did its job then we shouldn't need to drive to work more than once, but they want you to drive into work every day of the working week.

Totally irrelevant points

stevil · Jan 14, 2022

Lost4words said:
Totally irrelevant points

Your point was pointless.

The vaccine does its job, most people that are hospitalised and/or die from the disease are the unvaccinated.
The fact that the efficacy of vaccines wanes over time doesn't mean that they aren't doing their job.
If they didn't work, we wouldn't bother with second doses or boosters.
However, they are highly effective. Just like eating is highly effective in keeping you alive although the effects of eating food wanes over time and you need to top up again.

Lost4words · Jan 14, 2022

stevil said:
Your point was pointless.

The vaccine does its job, most people that are hospitalised and/or die from the disease are the unvaccinated.
The fact that the efficacy of vaccines wanes over time doesn't mean that they aren't doing their job.
If they didn't work, we wouldn't bother with second doses or boosters.
However, they are highly effective. Just like eating is highly effective in keeping you alive although the effects of eating food wanes over time and you need to top up again.

60 boosters later......

stevil · Jan 14, 2022

Lost4words said:
60 boosters later......

If that's what it takes, but 60 boosters would likely last 20-30 years so it is very unlikely.

Hopefully the disease will eventually evolve to be no more severe than the cold or flu, or hopefully it will disappear.

In the meantime, vaccinations and boosters save lives and reduce the burden on the health care system.

mindlight · Jan 15, 2022

stevil said:
If that's what it takes, but 60 boosters would likely last 20-30 years so it is very unlikely.

Hopefully the disease will eventually evolve to be no more severe than the cold or flu, or hopefully it will disappear.

In the meantime, vaccinations and boosters save lives and reduce the burden on the health care system.

You are right, but given the promises that the vaccine would solve this covid crisis, the optics get misused when people talk about second and third boosters.

A lot of the people who are still arguing against the vaccine will be dead before this is over and history will be written by those who had the smarts to get vaccinated and to protect their families also.

The report below estimates that unvaccinated people are eight times more likely to be hospitalized and that some 66% of people in the hospital right now are from the smaller percentage of people who chose to be morons during this pandemic.

I am a creationist but I have to say the logic of survival of the fittest and social Darwinism is being demonstrated in this pandemic with a cull of the mentally challenged from the herd.

Covid-19: Fact check—how many patients in hospital are unvaccinated?

stevil · Jan 15, 2022

mindlight said:
I am a creationist but I have to say the logic of survival of the fittest and social Darwinism is being demonstrated in this pandemic with a cull of the mentally challenged from the herd.

It's also a demonstration of evolution as this virus is mutating and some mutations are becoming better at being the dominant variant.
A person gets infected, that virus replicates itself and then the offspring travels to the next person infects them replicates and its own offspring goes to the next person. Once in a while mistakes are made in the replication process and a similar but different offspring emerges and once in a while that mutated offspring is better than its parent at infecting others and so it quickly becomes the new dominant strain.

So I don't know if you would consider that micro-evolution or if you think god is creating fully formed new viruses that are so similar to the parent virus that we humans get fooled into thinking it is just a mutation, Omicron came with several differences but alpha and delta were just very slight differences, but these were all mostly the same.

Anyway, sorry, couldn't help myself, don't want this thread to turn into an argument about evolution vs creationism.

mindlight · Jan 15, 2022

stevil said:
It's also a demonstration of evolution as this virus is mutating and some mutations are becoming better at being the dominant variant.
A person gets infected, that virus replicates itself and then the offspring travels to the next person infects them replicates and its own offspring goes to the next person. Once in a while mistakes are made in the replication process and a similar but different offspring emerges and once in a while that mutated offspring is better than its parent at infecting others and so it quickly becomes the new dominant strain.

So I don't know if you would consider that micro-evolution or if you think god is creating fully formed new viruses that are so similar to the parent virus that we humans get fooled into thinking it is just a mutation, Omicron came with several differences but alpha and delta were just very slight differences, but these were all mostly the same.

Anyway, sorry, couldn't help myself, don't want this thread to turn into an argument about evolution vs creationism.

Viruses are not alive, not creatures, they have simple genomes and are parasites in effect on life, not life itself. I have no problem with microevolution it happens, macroevolution of living creatures does not happen. It is clear that this virus's properties change over time. I tend to believe that evolution is in the main a regressive process and that ultimately this virus will lose its potency.

Taodeching · Jan 15, 2022

mindlight said:
I am a creationist but I have to say the logic of survival of the fittest and social Darwinism is being demonstrated in this pandemic with a cull of the mentally challenged from the herd.

Agreed, makes one wonder.

mindlight said:
Viruses are not alive, not creatures, they have simple genomes and are parasites in effect on life, not life itself.

I found that this matter is debated. I looked it up once and some say viruses are alive and others say not so much. This articles talks about it Are Viruses Alive? quite fascinating.

stevil · Jan 15, 2022

mindlight said:
Viruses are not alive, not creatures, they have simple genomes and are parasites in effect on life, not life itself. I have no problem with microevolution it happens, macroevolution of living creatures does not happen. It is clear that this virus's properties change over time. I tend to believe that evolution is in the main a regressive process and that ultimately this virus will lose its potency.

The ability to kill its host doesn't improve its chances of procreating.

The contagiousness is what gives it that advantage. It will evolve in a way that makes it more contagious. Whether it kills its host or not is not that important from an evolutionary perspective (as long as it has the ability to replicate and spread before its host dies.

The random mutations part of evolution would normally be regressive but due to the non random selection pressures, evolution as a whole becomes a progressive process.

Ophiolite · Jan 19, 2022

Taodeching said:
I found that this matter is debated. I looked it up once and some say viruses are alive and others say not so much. This articles talks about it Are Viruses Alive? quite fascinating.

My view is that the question, are viruses alive, is a meaningless one. It presumes that the life/non-life distinction is absolute and definitive. I think it is more accurate to consider a spectrum of characteristics running from simple chemical reactions, through reaction chains, complex cycles, pseudo-metabolisms and on to cellular life. Viruses could sit comfortably on that spectrum and it is then an irrelevant matter of personal taste where one places the life/non-life divide.

mindlight · Jan 21, 2022

stevil said:
The ability to kill its host doesn't improve its chances of procreating.

The contagiousness is what gives it that advantage. It will evolve in a way that makes it more contagious. Whether it kills its host or not is not that important from an evolutionary perspective (as long as it has the ability to replicate and spread before its host dies.

The random mutations part of evolution would normally be regressive but due to the non random selection pressures, evolution as a whole becomes a progressive process.

Well, let us hope that the contagiousness of the Omnicron version will make it the Omega version that ends this. By your logic, the virus's desperate bid to survive requires it to focus its last gasps on being more and more transmittable and sacrifices deadliness in the process. Not that this is a conscious process. The efforts to bar transmission become pointless only when we have a version that hardly kills anyone at all such as with the common cold. It is more likely that a version of covid will always be with us with phases of severity comparable to flu. At some point a decision has to be made about getting back to normal life and whether the risk of mild infection justifies not doing that. Old people and people with underlying problems and compromised immune systems are going to be dying of this till Kingdom comes from the look of things.

Mandatory Vaccination against Covid

Do you think that vaccination should now be mandatory?

Yes, for almost everyone

No

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