Old Earth Creationism

9Rock9 said:

For example, Exodus 20:11 seems to reinforce the young earth view that it actually was six literal days

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I believe the the heavens are of "old" as Peter states in 2nd Peter. I believe God created the Heavens and earth millions if not billions of years ago. We know that world perished, we have the fossils, etc. We know the earth was covered in water at some point if we go by Genesis 1. That's how that world perished. I mean, if we really look into it, why would God create an earth covered in water? As he states in Isaiah, he created it not in vain/void, he created it to be inhabited. I believe that earlier time is when the morning stars sang together and the sons of God shouted for joy has he talks about in Job. I think the verses in Jeremiah 4 touch on this one as well.

I believe after that the world age perished, God restarted this one and it may have took 6 literal days.

9Rock9 said:

I'm not quite sure what I believe about the days of Genesis. I have seen many arguments for the old earth perspective that the six days of the creation week are not meant to be literal 24 hour days, but rather long periods of time.

I do find old earth creationism compelling on the surface, but I find some difficulties in reconciling it with Scripture.

For example, Exodus 20:11 seems to reinforce the young earth view that it actually was six literal days.

I feel like if we were not meant to take the Creation Week as six 24 hour days, then I don't think it would have been reiterated in the 10 Commandments.

What are your thoughts?

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The topic is more complicated than many of our fellow brothers and sisters typically make it out to be. The more complicated it is, the more difficult it becomes for people's faith, and thus, Christians naturally have a bias against anything that could even remotely be perceived as challenging to their orthodoxy.

My recommendation would be to just continue to ask questions and approach the topic with an open heart. And don't be afraid to investigate complicated or challenging topics. And continue to seek many viewpoints on the topic.

My specific thoughts, as a scientist and a Christian, are that earth is 4.56 billion years old. I tend to agree with the analysis done by Seely of Westminster Theological.
Old Testament Cosmology—Paul Seely
This position also aligns with Claus Westermann, OT scholar, Biblical commentary if Genesis 1 and 2.

It's contentious, but the hermeneutics make the most sense to me.

9Rock9 said:

I'm not quite sure what I believe about the days of Genesis. I have seen many arguments for the old earth perspective that the six days of the creation week are not meant to be literal 24 hour days, but rather long periods of time.

I do find old earth creationism compelling on the surface, but I find some difficulties in reconciling it with Scripture.

For example, Exodus 20:11 seems to reinforce the young earth view that it actually was six literal days.

I feel like if we were not meant to take the Creation Week as six 24 hour days, then I don't think it would have been reiterated in the 10 Commandments.

What are your thoughts?

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The entire Bible points to the creation being a literal 6 day event.
As you said the clearest verse is
Exodus 20
1 And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

But there are many verses that point back and indicate the literalness of it.

I think many people are conflicted due to science and don't want to appear foolish over something that is 'proven'. So they try and reinterpret scripture through the lens of science thinking it's proved something so scripture must mean something else.
I find it very hard to understand why anyone would think the knowledge of men to be above or equal to the knowledge of God.

My answer to that view is that the world as God made it isn't here to test only the current world is and that no one was there to see how it was originally made.
People toss up all kind of 'issues' with the scripture and don't want to listen to any of the solutions. To me that speaks of a closed mind. They don't want to really see what the Bible has to say because their minds are already made up and set like concrete.

When I first became a Christian I assumed theistic evolution but I was lucky enough to meet a really good teacher who went through the Bible with me and that completely changed my mind. I think for me this was easier as I had come to faith primarily through reading the Bible and I wasn't an intellectual. So I always had a strong connection to believing it as God's breathed word to me so I could not ignore Exodus nor the other verses. Mankind is fallible, God is infallible.

I have never seen any compelling evidence for old age creation from scripture nor does it make any sense as to why God would want to do such a messy pointless thing. Again I have to assume this view is taken to somehow give a nod to science, to not appear foolish to the world.

9Rock9 said:

What are your thoughts?

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There is so much speculation because too few are qualified to exegete the Hebrew text. Because of this, we end up with generalized generic translations into English that would not allow for what some teach. Much of the reasoning is based upon vague translations.

God created [bara] the heavens and earth [out from nothing] at some undesignated time before Day One even appears. It does not say it was created with its first Day. It was in darkness. Why?

and.. The Holy Spirit is found hovering over melting waters like a hen who is warming her eggs...

Can you get that from a mere mainstream English translation? No you can not.

Why were the waters previously frozen? Were the water created frozen? No. It would say that God created a giant ice pack around the earth.

And, why were there three days of light before the sun was "made" (not created) to bear light? Where was that light of the first three days coming from?

Part 1. It is not as oversimplified as some would have us to believe.

Institute for Creation Research (ICR) has a good website with lots of sound scientific evidence for a "young" Earth.

Belief in an impossibly old world was required for Darwinian evolution to work. Their reasoning was "With enough time, ANYTHING can happen." Thus, Atheists sought for anything which could possibly be interpreted as evidence for a world old enough to make molecules-to-man evolution possible. While at the same time ignoring the evidence of creation. This led to the accepted age of the Earth going from mere thousands, all the way up to billions. Thousands of years was not enough time for man to evolve from slime. Then they realized millions was not enough. Then billions. At some point they should realize no amount of time is enough.

No matter how many times lightning strikes mud, it will not magically come to life.

I remember a story about an old woman who pulled a prank on her scientist friends in Hawaii.

She was with a geologist, a chemist, and a physicist. She asked them,
"Gentlemen, how old are these rocks?"
They each gave ridiculous ages for the rocks. Millions of years. Scientifically proven nonsense. She waited quietly for them to finish speaking. Then she said, "Thank you gentlemen. But these rocks are younger than I am. I stood here at this very spot when I was a little girl and watched these rocks form as the lava cooled."

(I am retelling the story from memory, and years make it hazy)

Isaiah 41:10 said:

The topic is more complicated than many of our fellow brothers and sisters typically make it out to be. The more complicated it is, the more difficult it becomes for people's faith, and thus, Christians naturally have a bias against anything that could even remotely be perceived as challenging to their orthodoxy.

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That is why Jesus said the way that leads to destruction is "broad and wide."

And, its why Paul sadly warned Timothy about what is to become of much of the church.


Great number of teachers = the broad and wide road.

Its a broad and wide offering of a smorgasbord of teachings. Choice of teachings that one picks because its one that one wants to hear.

The Creation is no exception.

Paul prophesied that many believers will not put up with sound doctrinal teaching.
Only a few will resist the pressures to conform. These (few) will find it. Will find the "life more abundantly" that Jesus wants to give to all believers.


They get ferocious when publicly refuted...

genez said:

There is so much speculation because too few are qualified to exegete the Hebrew text. Because of this, we end up with generalized generic translations into English that would not allow for what some teach. Much of the reasoning is based upon vague translations.

God created [bara] the heavens and earth [out from nothing] at some undesignated time before Day One even appears. It does not say it was created with its first Day. It was in darkness. Why?

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You only have to jump over to Exodus to see its not at some undesignated time, but all within the 6 days.

coffee4u said:

You only have to jump over to Exodus to see its not at some undesignated time, but all within the 6 days.

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Careful now... It does not say it was "created" in six days.

Instead, the Hebrew states it was "made" in six days. For it took six days to remake the world to "make" it to be as we now know it.

Why was the planet covered with an ice pack? Why was it found in darkness?

Why did the first three days have light, but no sun till the fourth day?

All those aspects are clues to something.

Why do we find in the fossil records life manifested as various periods? But we do not find man within them? While man was present right from the beginning of what we read in Genesis One and chapter Two?

genez said:

For it took six days to remake the world

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No where does it say 'remake' the world.

Who might want to be careful now?

coffee4u said:

No where does it day 'remake' the world.

Who might want to be careful now?

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Don't skip the rest of what I said like you just did. Keep it in its context.

For the world was being made in a new way. It implicitly states that in the beginning when God *created* the heavens and earth. That was before Day one took place. That was creation of the earth and heavens. What was being created in Genesis One was what covered and lived on the surface of the already created earth.

Exodus 20
1 And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Look again... God does not say that he created (bara). But, made (asah). When God created? The Hebrew word was 'bara.' Which means to create something out from nothing. You can understand that.

When it says, "God 'made.' Its a different Hebrew word [asah] which means to make or/and manufacture. What was made was made from what had already been created. Even the sun, moon, and stars had already existed before God *made* them to bear light.



Now its states that God does *create* souls for both man and animals in Genesis One. But the bodies for those souls? Those were not created "out from nothing.: (bara) Those bodies later in Genesis Two were molded and formed (jatsar) from the elements (dust) of the earth. Genesis 2 tells us that both Adam's body and the land animals had their bodies provided for by such a process of the Lord.

This is the basics of getting a grasp on some of what The Hebrew tells us and differentiates about, that English readers tend to just skim over while failing to see the exactness of the Hebrew. Its the very reason what some except without question a young earth concept, while all scientists who understand the data are forced to reject the God of the young earth creationists. Its a terrible witness for it leaves them to be with a legitimate excuse.

genez said:

Don't skip the rest of what I said like you just did. Keep it in its context.

For the world was being made in a new way. It implicitly states that in the beginning when God *created* the heavens and earth. That was before Day one took place. That was creation of the earth and heavens. What was being created in Genesis One was what covered and lived on the surface of the already created earth.

Exodus 20
1 And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Look again... God does not say that he created (bara). But, made (asah). When God created? The Hebrew word was 'bara.' Which means to create something out from nothing. You can understand that.

When it says, "God 'made.' Its a different Hebrew word [asah] which means to make or/and manufacture. What was made was made from what had already been created. Even the sun, moon, and stars had already existed before God *made* them to bear light.

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made (not created) two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made (not created) the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.​

Now its states that God does *create* souls for both man and animals in Genesis One. But the bodies for those souls? Those were not created "out from nothing.: (bara) Those bodies later in Genesis Two were molded and formed (jatsar) from the elements (dust) of the earth. Genesis 2 tells us that both Adam's body and the land animals had their bodies provided for by such a process of the Lord.

This is the basics of getting a grasp on some of what The Hebrew tells us and differentiates about, that English readers tend to just skim over while failing to see the exactness of the Hebrew. Its the very reason what some except without question a young earth concept, while all scientists who understand the data are forced to reject the God of the young earth creationists. Its a terrible witness for it leaves them to be with a legitimate excuse.

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genez

We already had this conversation before. You have changed your picture.

Scripture does not say that God remade, remodeled or reshaped the world in a new way. This is what you have decided upon. You are free to do so, I am also free to disagree with you and I will.

I really don't feel like having another frustrating and pointless argument with you, so you have a good day.

In reality, these discussions don't much matter. I am impressed with @Rachel20 for having the openness to reflect on whether her starting point is right or not, but most people will never be moved.

As an OEC, it's very simple for me. I believe God is the literal Creator of everything. I believe He is so powerful that He could have done it in a timescale of His choosing, including in six days (or less). But I believe He took longer than that, and that this is not only supported in the Scriptures, but also in the physical world we see around us. Unlike MiamiTed, I am fairly sure that God does not mind our childish speculations, as this is - for God - simply an issue of how He made man's prehistory intelligible to us. Personal view only.

genez said:

Careful now... It does not say it was "created" in six days.

Instead, the Hebrew states it was "made" in six days. For it took six days to remake the world to "make" it to be as we now know it.

Why was the planet covered with an ice pack? Why was it found in darkness?

Why did the first three days have light, but no sun till the fourth day?

All those aspects are clues to something.

Why do we find in the fossil records life manifested as various periods? But we do not find man within them? While man was present right from the beginning of what we read in Genesis One and chapter Two?

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Hi @genez,

According to man's theories, the planet was covered with an ice pack. No one actually witnessed that. We look at the earth's crust and make a lot of 'assumptions' about how it got to be the way that it is, but we don't really have any way of proving that our theories are correct. You know, for me, I'm always asking questions.

Take the Grand Canyon as a ferinstance. We get two theories about how it came to be. One, is that the Colorado River, over millions of years, has carved it out of the rock bed. Two, some huge glacier, dragging rocks in its receding path, carved it out of the rock face. I have real problems with both of those explanations.

For the first, there are 76 rivers on the face of the earth that are over 1,000 miles long. None of them replicate the 'digging out' of their river beds like we see in the Grand Canyon. How come? If water running over rock for millions of years naturally eats away at a river bed to cause what we see as the Grand Canyon, why, out of all of the similar rivers, do we only see one instance of it happening? So my mind says that there must be some other explanation for the phenomenon because rivers pretty obviously don't naturally eat away at their beds such as we see in the Grand Canyon.

Similarly with the second, the theory is that the norther hemisphere was covered with ice down to about the parallel slicing through the middle of the North American continent. All around the globe! So, are we really to believe that there was only one instance where the receding ice, over some 10,000 miles of ice cap on land, dug out some huge crevasse? Again, my mind says that isn't the correct explanation either.

You see, the problem with natural processes, is that they're honestly pretty uniform throughout. Given similar circumstances, natural processes are always going to leave pretty similar results as they go on. Secondly, we have no eye witnesses to the day that the Grand Canyon formed, or as science would have us believe, the age in which the Grand Canyon was formed. It's really just as true, as far as we know, that when God opened up the springs of the deep, the Grand Canyon was formed. Science tells us that there was a time that all the land mass on the earth 'may' have been one solid single land mass and that it broke up. Based on the seemingly puzzle piece fit of the continents, that's likely true. Seems to me that some great upheaval that would break entire continents, surely wouldn't have much problem putting a small slice in the earth's crust that we call the Grand Canyon.

The only eyewitness that I know to have been there when all that was made...was made...is God. I'm going to trust that He's telling me the truth and that science is only doing the best that they can with guesses and theories that 'might' answer our question, but we can't really be sure.

So, was there an ice cap covering most of the earth? I don't think so. Because, according to God's word, the earth hasn't even been here more than about 6,000 years. And yes, in the law God's very finger wrote the words: For in six days God made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them... According to the Scriptures. Now, each one is free to understand that as they will, but the words say what they say, even in the Hebrew.

For me, I have come to understand and see, God's plan. Yes, I'm sure some will say that I'm probably not understanding it, but be that as it may. Here's my understanding:

God created. He created a place for man to live. His very, very first reason for creating the heavens and the earth was that He would make a realm in which a creature that He was to love and cherish and desire a relationship with, man, could rest his foot and live his life understanding that all that he had, even his very life, was a gift of God's making.

He (God) knew that man would sin and that there would have to be made a way for some of those that He desired the relationship for which He first created man, could be forgiven and rest eternally with Him, as was God's plan from the beginning. From the first proclamation of God, "Let there be light!", until the final day upon which God's judgment comes, we live in a created realm that was made for no other purpose than to be a place where man could rest his foot and eat and live.

The culmination of God's plan is that those who accept God's terms of forgiveness and uphold Him as the Creator and Sustainer of all that is in this realm, will continue to live in this realm after He has made it new once again. That's the plan, according to the Scriptures. God set it all in place and God will draw it all to a close. Those who choose God's way to live, as they pass through this life, will receive His ultimate promise, that He has shown He can deliver through the resurrection of His Son, Jesus. They will be heirs along with His Son, living eternally with Him under the provision of His continued protection and sustaining of life eternally, just as the obedient angels, who live in another realm of God's creating, will.

We live in a created realm. It did not take millions or billions of years to become what we see through our telescopes and geologic surveys. It was created in the span of six rotations of the planet earth. The sole planet in all of the heavenly bodies that God created that holds what God cares about...man. So for me, all that 'scientific' history that we are told preceded the life of mankind upon the earth, is fake news. Fake news that is based on the best reasoning that man can devise to explain why we are here...without God. It's explained by natural processes that we see at work everyday in the here and now, but have no idea how everything, in it's initial created form, really was.

God's word says that in the beginning, the earth was covered in water...not ice. God's word says that He created the atmosphere that encircles the earth, and the earth alone, that allows man to live on the earth. God's word says that He created all the flora. That on the day, next rotation of the earth, after He created all the flora, He then created the sun to sustain the life of the flora that He had made the day before. God's word says that He did all that in six days. God's word clearly says that He created the earth before He created the sun and other heavenly bodies. Is that what your science tells you about the universe? That the earth was the first made heavenly body?

No, because science tells you that the earth, while God says it was made out of nothing, was made out of something. The theories are various, but all scientific explanation of the earth's formation that I've seen, explain that the earth was created from matter that was already floating around in the universe. So, unfortunately, the truth is that we must either accept God's explanation, or throw out all of God's explanation and go with the science of man.

With the science of man, we can't believe that the earth was formed first.
With the science of man, we can't believe that the earth was formed from nothing.
With the science of man we can't believe that the earth is older than every other heavenly body in all of the universe.

Most importantly. With the science of man, we can't believe that a peasant Jewish woman gave birth to a son without having had sexual relations with some man upon the earth.

God bless and Merry Christmas,
Remember, that Jesus is our proof that God can do what He has promised to do, for those who would believe Him.
Ted

miamited said:

Hi @genez,

According to man's theories, the planet was covered with an ice pack. No one actually witnessed that. We look at the earth's crust and make a lot of 'assumptions' about how it got to be the way that it is, but we don't really have any way of proving that our theories are correct. You know, for me, I'm always asking questions.

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We have things like glacier moraines, striations and a good dozen or so glacier features that we observe around the planet. It isn't particularly mysterious nor is it an assumption to conclude that idea she's occurred. Rather it's simply a conclusion based on what we see.

Just the same, we might see something like a foot track on the ground. It's true that we never witnessed a dinosaur walking, but through observation, it's not rational to conclude that such things didn't happen in the last.

Isaiah 41:10 said:

We have things like glacier moraines, striations and a good dozen or so glacier features that we observe around the planet. It isn't particularly mysterious nor is it an assumption to conclude that idea she's occurred. Rather it's simply a conclusion based on what we see.

Just the same, we might see something like a foot track on the ground. It's true that we never witnessed a dinosaur walking, but through observation, it's not rational to conclude that such things didn't happen in the last.

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Hi @Isaiah 41:10

I understand. We also have very compelling scientific methodology and 'facts' that support an evolutionary theory of how life evolved upon the planet, too. Trust me, it's not that I don't find a lot of the scientific explanation plausible, it's just that I believe God. I also know for a fact that He was the only one there to see how exactly the earth was formed on the day that it was created. I rather imagine that a lot of the striations and glacial features could well have been planted in the day that the springs of the deep opened up and the continental divide that likely came about at that time. We just don't really know, of our own knowledge, how exactly some scratch in the crust of the earth came to be there.

We see it today. We study it. We theorize and we test, as best we can, how such theories might have brought about the visual evidence that we see with our eyes. But all of our explanations are based on natural processes that we know occur today. The other fact that I know, is that when God does something, all natural explanations go out the window. Which is why I included that last little bit about a baby that was born without the aid of human sperm. All scientific and medical knowledge tells you that just isn't possible...but I believe God. I believe that baby was born. That he was born from a woman's womb in which the zygot was somehow implanted to attach to the wall of her uterus. The day that you can find me a medical or scientific model that explains that, then I'll be more willing to listen to all the scientific models that explain the other miracles of God.

Finally, I have read the Scriptures, and I understand that God has declared that He will make foolish the wisdom of the wise. Do you know that the sun stood still in the sky for several hours over Israel? Do you know that there was a time that an army of people merely walked on a dry seabed with a wall of water standing on both their right hand and on their left. All of that is impossible, you know? If all we have to depend on to explain these events is the study of the natural properties of the earth.

So, each is certainly free to believe as they will concerning the first few words of the Scriptures, and all the words contained thereafter. But for me, I just believe God. What I do know also, is that according to the Scriptures, we're all going to get to see pretty much how He did it in the beginning, when He does it again to create the new heavens and the new earth. God's word declares that there is coming a day when the heavens and the earth will be rolled up like a scroll. Then He will put it all back new. Something assures me that it isn't going to take him billions upon billions of years to do that, and we honestly have no idea what physical features the earth might have on the day that it is created. According to the Scriptures, on the day that it was created, the entire earth was covered in water just as it was in the days of the flood. The solid rock and crust of the earth was under that water in both instances. What do you think the dry ground looked like on the day that God caused it to appear out of the covering of water?

You see, we don't even have a good starting point to know what the physical features of the dry ground looked like the day it appeared out of the sea of water that covered the whole earth. What I know is that I live on a planet that was created by a God who desires to love me. That it is by His hand that the earth exists. Therefore, I have nothing with which to compare, how everything looked on the day that it was created. But I know that I'm dealing with a God who can literally cause the sun to stop moving across the horizon and can even make a shadow go backwards several steps. I mean, explain that for me with all the scientific knowledge that we have. How did a shadow move backwards several feet in the middle of the day?

God bless,
Ted

miamited said:

Hi @Isaiah 41:10

I understand. We also have very compelling scientific methodology and 'facts' that support an evolutionary theory of how life evolved upon the planet, too. Trust me, it's not that I don't find a lot of the scientific explanation plausible, it's just that I believe God. I also know for a fact that He was the only one there to see how exactly the earth was formed on the day that it was created. I rather imagine that a lot of the striations and glacial features could well have been planted in the day that the springs of the deep opened up and the continental divide that likely came about at that time. We just don't really know, of our own knowledge, how exactly some scratch in the crust of the earth came to be there.
Ted

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Glacial moraines form in U shapes driving from the poles, southward across the continents. They don't display any evidence of being planted as part of any springs opening up, no more do dinosaur tracks appear to be evidence for being planted by modern day donkeys or people.

I think that your ideas are just throwing out basic observations. You wrote out 'facts', as if there is something confusing or contentious about these simple topics, but they really as simple as I am describing. If you have dinosaur tracks on the ground, You can rest assured that an animal, or a dinosaur in particular, once walked in that particular location. And just the same, if you see a glacial marine with striations, you can rest assured that a glacier once moved in that location. The logic is exactly the same, and the evidence is, for practical purposes, identical.

Suggesting other ideas beyond that, would be to suggest beliefs that are without, or are contradictory to, the evidence. Or in this case, contradictory to God's declared or ordained general revelation.

Then your response went on to talk about other topics involving zygotes and the spreading of the firmament and armies and whatnot, but I don't think that the discussion needs to go any further than what is simply put above.

coffee4u said:

genez

We already had this conversation before. You have changed your picture.

Scripture does not say that God remade, remodeled or reshaped the world in a new way. This is what you have decided upon. You are free to do so, I am also free to disagree with you and I will.

I really don't feel like having another frustrating and pointless argument with you, so you have a good day.

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Scripture indicates that there was another created world before this one. One that was utterly destroyed and to be replaced with this current world we find ourselves living in. Because we can see that factor? We can know that the surface of this planet has been remade.

Some act surprised. Some act confused. But, its how God operates when desiring to create new ages.
For this very world we live in will become changed and remade once more!


That's not going to be evolution. Its going to be the change that takes place for the Millennium.

Hi @Isaiah 41:10

As I've already agreed, the various sciences that study the physical earth and creatures, have given us what certainly appear to many to be acceptable and 'proven' answers. I am not an unscientific person, but I realize the limitations that preclude science from being able to prove things that happened in ages past. Some assumptions have to be made. The first being that 'the natural is all there is' and the second being that 'the natural has always been the same and acts the same at all times'.

Anyway, it seems apparent that we will not be in agreement on the subject of the age of the earth, and I'm also ok with that. If I die in stupidity and ignorance of how the earth 'evolved' to be like it is today, it won't have cost me anything.

God bless,
Ted

miamited said:

Hi @genez,

According to man's theories, the planet was covered with an ice pack. No one actually witnessed that. We look at the earth's crust and make a lot of 'assumptions' about how it got to be the way that it is, but we don't really have any way of proving that our theories are correct. You know, for me, I'm always asking questions.

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It just so happens that when it speaks of the Spirit was hovering over the waters in Genesis 1:2?


In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over
the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering
over the waters."

The Hebrew speaks of the Spirit using a word used for mother hen hovering over her eggs as to warm them. Why?

The water was frozen.

How can we know?

There had been NO LIGHT of day yet on the earth. No First Day had yet taken place. The ice pack around the earth needed to be melted.

There had been a universal flood of the prehistoric creation and God withdrew all light - causing a deep freeze all around the planet IN DARKNESS. Causing all angelic activity on the planet to cease....

coffee4u said:

genez

We already had this conversation before. You have changed your picture.

Scripture does not say that God remade, remodeled or reshaped the world in a new way. This is what you have decided upon. You are free to do so, I am also free to disagree with you and I will.

I really don't feel like having another frustrating and pointless argument with you, so you have a good day.

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I have not changed what I have been knowing.

If you have some time. Grab a thermos of good coffee and read maybe a chapter at a time.

Without Form and Void - Frontpage

grace and peace ............