When was Satan bound?

Douggg · Oct 20, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
That is nonsense. You are trying to make the passage say what you want it to say instead of accepting what it actually says. Again, Peter said "This IS what was spoken by the prophet Joel", not "This is LIKE what was spoken by the prophet Joel". You can't get around that no matter how hard you try to twist that passage to mean what you want it to mean.

The point Peter was making it was the Holy Spirit being active among them, to make it possible for the miracle of understanding each other to happen, like it will be in the "time of the end" of the last days, when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon into blood, and signs in heaven and earth.

The last days, according to God's view of a thousand years is as a day to Him would be from Jesus's death on the cross, to His Second Coming 2000 years later. And if projected would be 2033, accounting for Jesus's age when He was crucified.

"Time of the end" is the finality of the last days, those 2000 years, when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon into blood, and signs in heaven and earth.

In Matthew 24:
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The end of the 2000 years, and "the time of the end" coming of those 2000 years.

Then in verse 15, Jesus refers to Daniel and the abomination of desolation which will take place at the time of the end.

In Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Which is our times, the age of the internet, and corresponds to the parable of the fig tree generation, based on Jerusalem as the fig tree and a generation being 70 years.

In Matthew 24, Jesus spoke of exactly what Joel had said, and Peter quoted Joel,

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

____________________________________________________________________

So Peter was likening the visible activity of the Holy Spirit there that day in Acts 2 to what will happen in the "time of the end" of the last days.

Since the last days, the 2000 years between Jesus crucified and now, and the 4000 years of man's history before then, total 6000 years, the 1000 years millennial rule forthcoming of Jesus reign on this current earth, while Satan is bound and isolated in the bottomless pit, is God's day of rest for humanity.

sovereigngrace · Oct 20, 2021

DavidPT said:
Of course that is what the context is involving. Are you then suggesting that post the 2nd coming nothing any longer involves the kingdom of God? Per your view of things, are there any nations outside of new Jerusalem during the NHNE? If Christ is physically present on earth during the NHNE, where do you envision Him to be physically present at? Every single place on earth at the same time, or in a specific region in the earth? Christ is never depicted as being physically everywhere at the same time. Even after He had resurrected, He was still being depicted as being physically present in one place at a time. Christ is physically present in heaven now. He is not also physically present on earth as well. Keep in mind, I'm meaning physically, not spiritually. One point being, the text in Isaiah 2 says this--And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Since He has to have a place to dwell once He returns, why can't this passage apply after He has returned? Which is a more likely scenario? Once He returns He will physically dwell in Jerusalem in the Middle East. Once He returns He will physically dwell somewhere in the USA instead, or maybe somewhere in Mexico? So on and so on.

It doesn't say He is on earth during the last days. Where does it say that in Isaiah 2, Micah 4 or any last days passage in the NT? You were not able to prove that. When you refuse to let the NT explain and locate the last days, what results is Premil. Your ad-hoc mode of interpretation is breathtaking. No Scripture is safe.

Where you find 2 or 3 believers today, Jesus is spiritually present. The house of the LORD and the mountain of the Lord under the new covenant is the kingdom of God.

We have moved from the physical, earthly, visible and temporal under the old covenant to the spiritual, heavenly, invisible and eternal under the new covenant.

Premils are always striving to take us back to the old abolished and fulfilled typical order.

sovereigngrace · Oct 20, 2021

Douggg said:
The point Peter was making it was the Holy Spirit being active among them, to make it possible for the miracle of understanding each other to happen, like it will be in the "time of the end" of the last days, when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon into blood, and signs in heaven and earth.

The last days, according to God's view of a thousand years is as a day to Him would be from Jesus's death on the cross, to His Second Coming 2000 years later. And if projected would be 2033, accounting for Jesus's age when He was crucified.

"Time of the end" is the finality of the last days, those 2000 years, when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon into blood, and signs in heaven and earth.

In Matthew 24:
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The end of the 2000 years, and "the time of the end" coming of those 2000 years.

Then in verse 15, Jesus refers to Daniel and the abomination of desolation which will take place at the time of the end.

In Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Which is our times, the age of the internet, and corresponds to the parable of the fig tree generation, based on Jerusalem as the fig tree and a generation being 70 years.

In Matthew 24, Jesus spoke of exactly what Joel had said, and Peter quoted Joel,

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

____________________________________________________________________

So Peter was likening the visible activity of the Holy Spirit there that day in Acts 2 to what will happen in the "time of the end" of the last days.

Since the last days, the 2000 years between Jesus crucified and now, and the 4000 years of man's history before then, total 6000 years, the 1000 years millennial rule forthcoming of Jesus reign on this current earth, while Satan is bound and isolated in the bottomless pit, is God's day of rest for humanity.

So, who cares what the Scriptures says just force your opinions on the scriptural text?

Where exactly does it say "the last days" equate to "a thousand years ... as a day to Him"?

DavidPT · Oct 20, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Why did you ask about Acts 2 saying something about signs in heaven when it mentions "signs on the earth below"?

Acts 2:19 I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke.

Have you never read all of Acts 2, Doug? If you have, you seem to have forgotten about this passage:

Acts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles.

There's the wonders and signs that Peter talked about.

Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

So, when did verse 20 happen back then since both Matthew 24 and Revelation 6 place this just prior to the 2nd coming? As to verse 19, do you not see that it mentions blood? What does blood have to do with any of the miracles the Apostles were performing at the time? Also the text says that the Lord Himself will shew these wonders, not someone doing them for Him instead.

In verse 19, one keyword is blood, the other is fire. I first did a search in the book of Acts for blood. I could not find one single passage involving the Apostles performing miracles, where it involved blood. I next did a search for fire in the book of Acts. It was the same result. Zero passages involving Apostles performing miracles involved fire. Maybe I overlooked something, and if so, you're welcome to bring that to light if there is something I overlooked in that chapter and that you can show what it was.

BTW, I don't have a dispute with your entire post. Some of it I tend to agree with you about.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 20, 2021

Douggg said:
The point Peter was making it was the Holy Spirit being active among them, to make it possible for the miracle of understanding each other to happen, like it will be in the "time of the end" of the last days, when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon into blood, and signs in heaven and earth.

The last days, according to God's view of a thousand years is as a day to Him would be from Jesus's death on the cross, to His Second Coming 2000 years later.

So, with the last days being since Christ's death on the cross, why would you deny that what was happening on the day of Pentecost was part of the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32 as Peter said it was? It's not as if I'm saying the prophecy was completely fulfilled on that day, but certainly the part about God pouring out His Spirit on believers began to be fulfilled that day. And the part that says everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved began to be fulfilled that day when 3000 people were saved. And the part about wonders and signs was also at the very least partially fulfilled on that day as well as Acts 2:42 indicates.

For you to deny that the day of Pentecost had anything to do (even partially) with the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32 is to deny what Peter clearly said in Acts 2:16-21.

"Time of the end" is the finality of the last days, those 2000 years, when the sun will turn to darkness and the moon into blood, and signs in heaven and earth.

In Matthew 24:

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The end of the 2000 years, and "the time of the end" coming of those 2000 years.

The time of the end is equivalent to the last days. The reason that Daniel was told to seal up his prophecies was because the meaning of them would be revealed in the time of the end/last days. The meaning of his prophecies are revealed in the New Testament so they are no longer sealed. The New Testament era is "the time of the end". Look at 1 John 2:18 where John said "it is the last time". He knew that the time after Christ's death and resurrection up until His second coming was "the time of the end".

The verse you quoted, Matthew 24:14 refers both to "the time of the end" and "the end" itself. The gospel has been preached during "the time of the end" and "the end" itself (which refers to the end of the age) will come once it has been preached to all who God wishes it to be preached to in the world.

Then in verse 15, Jesus refers to Daniel and the abomination of desolation which will take place at the time of the end.

Again, the time of the end is the same as the last days, so it extends from the first coming of Christ to the second coming of Christ. The abomination of desolation took place in 70 AD and that was within the time of the end that we are still in today.

In Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Which is our times, the age of the internet, and corresponds to the parable of the fig tree generation, based on Jerusalem as the fig tree and a generation being 70 years.

In Matthew 24, Jesus spoke of exactly what Joel had said, and Peter quoted Joel,

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

That passage refers to the last day of the last days and the end of the time of the end when Christ returns. You're getting the time of the end mixed up with the end itself.

So Peter was likening the visible activity of the Holy Spirit there that day in Acts 2 to what will happen in the "time of the end" of the last days.

Why do you ignore that he said in Acts 2:16 "This IS what was spoken by the prophet Joel" before quoting Joel 2:28-32? You're acting as if he said "This is LIKE what was spoken by the prophet Joel". You are twisting scripture to mean what you want it to mean. What happened on the day of Pentecost was the beginning of the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32 and it has continued to be fulfilled ever since as people have continued to receive the Spirit and be saved since that time.

Since the last days, the 2000 years between Jesus crucified and now, and the 4000 years of man's history before then, total 6000 years, the 1000 years millennial rule forthcoming of Jesus reign on this current earth, while Satan is bound and isolated in the bottomless pit, is God's day of rest for humanity.

Scripture does not speak of such a thing as "God's day of rest for humanity". You're making that up. It's sad that you have to resort to making things up that aren't in scripture in order to try to keep your doctrine afloat.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 20, 2021

DavidPT said:
Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

So, when did verse 20 happen back then since both Matthew 24 and Revelation 6 place this just prior to the 2nd coming?

I'm not saying that! That's why I only referenced verse 19 and verse 20. I was showing you that you were wrong about verse 19 and I said nothing about verse 20.

Please pay careful attention to what I'm about to say. I believe that the day of Pentecost was the BEGINNING of the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32. In Acts 2:21 (Joel 2:32) it talks about how everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved and this is something that occurs during the last days. Obviously, that verse was not completely fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. There were 3000 people saved that day and people have been calling on the Lord and getting saved ever since. So, I'm saying the last days began back then and have continued until today and will continue until the second coming of Christ. Do you understand what I'm saying?

As to verse 19, do you not see that it mentions blood? What does blood have to do with any of the miracles the Apostles were performing at the time?

It's probably a figurative reference, but I wouldn't expect you to understand something like that. You probably think that verse 20 is saying that the moon will literally be turned to blood, which is ridiculous. You just are unable to recognize figurative language unless the scripture spells it all out to you.

Also the text says that the Lord Himself will shew these wonders, not someone doing them for Him instead.

Goodness gracious, David. Where is your discernment? Do you think the apostles did the wonders and signs with their own power or did God do the wonders and signs through them?

In verse 19, one keyword is blood, the other is fire. I first did a search in the book of Acts for blood. I could not find one single passage involving the Apostles performing miracles, where it involved blood. I next did a search for fire in the book of Acts. It was the same result. Zero passages involving Apostles performing miracles involved fire. Maybe I overlooked something, and if so, you're welcome to bring that to light if there is something I overlooked in that chapter and that you can show what it was.

If you want to take all of it literally then I can't help you. I showed you a passage in Acts 2 that said the apostles did wonders and signs. If you want to think that has nothing to do with what Acts 2:19 is about, so be it. I can't force you to have spiritual discernment about these things.

BTW, I don't have a dispute with your entire post. Some of it I tend to agree with you about.

Naturally, you wouldn't bother even mentioning what those things are and would only mention what you disagree with me about.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 20, 2021

DavidPT said:
Of course that is what the context is involving. Are you then suggesting that post the 2nd coming nothing any longer involves the kingdom of God? Per your view of things, are there any nations outside of new Jerusalem during the NHNE? If Christ is physically present on earth during the NHNE, where do you envision Him to be physically present at? Every single place on earth at the same time, or in a specific region in the earth? Christ is never depicted as being physically everywhere at the same time. Even after He had resurrected, He was still being depicted as being physically present in one place at a time. Christ is physically present in heaven now. He is not also physically present on earth as well. Keep in mind, I'm meaning physically, not spiritually. One point being, the text in Isaiah 2 says this--And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Since He has to have a place to dwell once He returns, why can't this passage apply after He has returned?

Where do you get this idea that the last days extend beyond the day He returns? Scripture indicates that the last days refer to the days leading up to His return, so they occur BEFORE His return with the last of the last days being the day He returns. Why can't you acknowledge this?

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

The scoffers scoff at His second coming in the last days, right? Would you agree that His second coming will put an end to their scoffing? That's obvious, right? So, why would you not see His second coming as bringing an end to the last days as well? Which would mean He will return on the last day of the last days. That is clearly what 2 Peter 3:3-13 implies, so what basis is there for extending the last days to go beyond the day He returns? Do you have any answer for that?

Douggg · Oct 20, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Again, the time of the end is the same as the last days, so it extends from the first coming of Christ to the second coming of Christ.

The time of the end does not extend from the first coming of Christ to the second coming of Christ. The time of the end is the finality of the last days. We are living in the finality of the last days.

The time of the end is characterized in Daniel 12:4 as when people would be running to and fro, and knowledge increased - obviously talking about our day and age, when looking back at history with 20/20 hindsight.

The parable of the fig tree verifies it, because it is readily observable that Jerusalem is back in the hands of the Jews, 1967, so that they while being in Jerusalem will say to Jesus, blessed as He who comes in the name of the Lord (Matthew 23:39) - after the their brief time of thinking the Antichrist is the promised King of Israel messiah.

___________________________________________________________

The 4000 years from Adam to Jesus + 2000 years (the last days) is 6000 years.

The 1000 years millennium beginning when Jesus returns is God's day of rest for humanity.

TribulationSigns · Oct 20, 2021

DavidPT said:
What does blood have to do with any of the miracles the Apostles were performing at the time? Also the text says that the Lord Himself will shew these wonders, not someone doing them for Him instead.

This only proves that your literal approach has failed the test of Scripture since you do not understand what the Lord means by the moon into blood signifies. I dare you to explain to me biblically what it means to have the moon turn into blood.

I could not find one single passage involving the Apostles performing miracles, where it involved blood.

Duh!

I next did a search for fire in the book of Acts. It was the same result. Zero passages involving Apostles performing miracles involved fire.

Duh again. So you assumed that it did not occur at Pentecost, so these signs must take place in the future in a literal fashion, humm??

Maybe I overlooked something,

Since when? I have explained thousands of times here what the Sun, Moon, Stars, Vapor of Smoke, Air, Fire, Moon, etc., all means in Scripture. You were not overlooking something, you have refused to hear or receive the truthful testimony on the matter.

Douggg · Oct 20, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Scripture does not speak of such a thing as "God's day of rest for humanity. You're making that up. It's sad that you have to resort to making things up that aren't in scripture in order to try to keep your doctrine afloat.

Men will learn war no more during God's day of rest for humanity. Men will live longer lifes, and the wolf will lie down with the Lamb,

TribulationSigns · Oct 20, 2021

Douggg said:
The time of the end is characterized in Daniel 12:4 as when people would be running to and fro, and knowledge increased - obviously talking about our day and age, when looking back at history with 20/20 hindsight.

This is a problem you are having here. The "knowledge" has nothing to do with technological advances or advanced modern science or anything like that. This has to do with the understanding of the secret or mystery of the Kingdom of God.

See.. The book of Daniel is the revelation of God, the prophecy of God that was kept from being understood in the Old Testament until after Christ came to the Cross. It is the time of the end when the seal would be loosed and the servants of God in the New Testament period with the power of the Holy Spirit would then understand the mystery of the Kingdom of God.

In your type of interpretation, it doesn't agree with Scripture. These are the last days, Christ did put away sin in the last days. This is the end of the age and has been since Christ went to the cross. This is the last dispensation and has been since Christ went to the cross. All these things agree perfectly with Scripture.

You got the knowledge part wrong.

The parable of the fig tree verifies it, because it is readily observable that Jerusalem is back in the hands of the Jews, 1967, so that they while being in Jerusalem will say to Jesus, blessed as He who comes in the name of the Lord (Matthew 23:39) - after the their brief time of thinking the Antichrist is the promised King of Israel messiah.

Wrong Israel. Wrong Jersualem. Wrong Antichrist.

Douggg · Oct 20, 2021

TribulationSigns said:
I dare you to explain to me biblically what it means to have the moon turn into blood.

God had Aaron with his rod touch the waters of the Nile, it turned to blood.

Exodus 7:19 And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and that there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood, and in vessels of stone.

Regarding the moon, is God not able?

DavidPT · Oct 20, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Where do you get this idea that the last days extend beyond the day He returns? Scripture indicates that the last days refer to the days leading up to His return, so they occur BEFORE His return with the last of the last days being the day He returns. Why can't you acknowledge this?

2 Peter 3:3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

The scoffers scoff at His second coming in the last days, right? Would you agree that His second coming will put an end to their scoffing? That's obvious, right? So, why would you not see His second coming as bringing an end to the last days as well? Which would mean He will return on the last day of the last days. That is clearly what 2 Peter 3:3-13 implies, so what basis is there for extending the last days to go beyond the day He returns? Do you have any answer for that?

Since there are two advents, some of what is recorded in those verses might apply to the 2nd advent, not the first. Therefore, these things begin in the last days, yet some of these things extend beyond the last days.

What about verse 4 in Micah 4 that I brought up in an earlier post? How is any of that applicable to the here and now? Maybe you already addressed that? I still haven't read all of the latest posts in this thread. I'm working on that, it's just that I tend to get sidetracked at times with other things, such as things around the house, then end up getting behind on some of my reading of posts. I no longer have the kind of focus I did when I was younger. Plus, as much as I would like to address every single post addressed to me, that is an impossible task for me, unfortunately. For one, I type with only one finger, literally. I have issues with joints in my fingers at times since arthritis runs in my family. My mother ended up literally crippled by it, and that she died in that miserable state. Imagine only typing with one finger? Do you think you could still address as many posts as you do if that's what you basically had to do as well? It's embarrassing even admitting I only type with one finger. Yet, it's a fact, so why hide it from anyone I guess.

TribulationSigns · Oct 20, 2021

Douggg said:
Men will learn war no more during God's day of rest for humanity. Men will live longer lifes, and the wolf will lie down with the Lamb,

This is typical Flawed Premillennial doctrine. The Bible does not say this. Not even close! Read the Scripture again, carefully...

Isaiah 56:7

"Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."

Isaiah 65:25

"The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."

Do you realize that the mountain is symbolically the kingdom, right? God is talking about his HOLY MOUNTAIN, HIS HOLY KINGDOM. Not national Israel or some valley somewhere in Israel where wolves and lambs are lying together. That's absurd.

Listen, in the Lord's Kingdom we are symbolical as sheep among wolves (professed Christians), we are symbolical as bullocks among the roaring lions (professed Christians), we are as children playing on the holes of the serpents, and yet they cannot at all hurt us. Do you know how they won't be able to hurt us? What hurt is this? Read Isaiah 11:8; Mark 16:18; Psalms 58:3-4; Luke 10:18-19, etc.! We won't be spiritually hurt (in other words, deceived by the false doctrines by wolves, lions, and serpents) because we are in Lord's Holy Mountain! This is Mount Zion, the Kingdom of God. We understand all these things by comparing the spiritual with the Spiritual which you failed to do so! To those who it is not given to understand, this is foolishness and they dream of Christian powers over-literal snakes, mountains in AD 70, or of living with physical wolves in the valley of Jordan. Come on! These truths are only discerned, as scripture states, by comparing the Spiritual with the spiritual.

He who hath ears to hear let him hear! Selah!

Spiritual Jew · Oct 20, 2021

Douggg said:
The time of the end does not extend from the first coming of Christ to the second coming of Christ. The time of the end is the finality of the last days. We are living in the finality of the last days.

The time of the end is characterized in Daniel 12:4 as when people would be running to and fro, and knowledge increased - obviously talking about our day and age, when looking back at history with 20/20 hindsight.

The parable of the fig tree verifies it, because it is readily observable that Jerusalem is back in the hands of the Jews, 1967, so that they while being in Jerusalem will say to Jesus, blessed as He who comes in the name of the Lord (Matthew 23:39) - after the their brief time of thinking the Antichrist is the promised King of Israel messiah.

___________________________________________________________

The 4000 years from Adam to Jesus + 2000 years (the last days) is 6000 years.

The 1000 years millennium beginning when Jesus returns is God's day of rest for humanity.

Congratulations on ignoring everything I said and not responding directly to any of the points I made. You're good at that.

Do you think no one has understood Daniel's prophecies until our day and age? That must be what you think since it says his book would be sealed up (the meaning of it not revealed) until the time of the end. But, that is not the case. People have understood the meaning of the prophecies in the book of Daniel for a long time now. Jesus certainly did and it would be silly to think that His disciples or none of the early church fathers understood or anyone else until our day and age.

I used to interpret Daniel 12:4 the way you do as if it referred to modern transportation and technology. But, I no longer see it that way. This is scripture, so the verse needs to have scriptural significance. People traveling all over with modern transportation has no significance in relation to Bible prophecy. I believe people going to and fro refers to the spreading of the gospel from Jerusalem and other parts of Israel to the Gentile nations.

The reference to knowledge being increased is not about the increase in knowledge in general as you understand it. Obviously, general knowledge has increased greatly since the arrival of the Internet because of the easy access to almost anything you'd like to learn about. But, this is scripture we're talking about, not some secular book. Daniel 12:4 is talking about the increase in the knowledge of the Word of God and the knowledge of the true meaning of Old Testament prophecies like Daniel's. And, certainly, the knowledge of the Word of God increased greatly when the Holy Spirit started indwelling people and teaching them God's ways and the meaning of scripture. The New Testament also greatly increased people's knowledge of the word of God.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 20, 2021

DavidPT said:
Since there are two advents, some of what is recorded in those verses might apply to the 2nd advent, not the first. Therefore, these things begin in the last days, yet some of these things extend beyond the last days.

This is not a convincing argument at all. Give me some evidence to show that anything written in Isaiah 2 or Micah 4 does not pertain to the last days. In the beginning of both Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 it says "in the last days..." and proceeds to describe things relating to the last days. So, show me where it changes the subject and starts talking about things that don't pertain to the last days.

What about verse 4 in Micah 4 that I brought up in an earlier post? How is any of that applicable to the here and now? Maybe you already addressed that? I still haven't read all of the latest posts in this thread.

Yes, I have addressed that already. Until you stop thinking that everything is literal unless it smacks you across the face and says otherwise (except for 2 Peter 3 somehow), you just aren't going to get it.

I'm working on that, it's just that I tend to get sidetracked at times with other things, such as things around the house, then end up getting behind on some of my reading of posts. I no longer have the kind of focus I did when I was younger. Plus, as much as I would like to address every single post addressed to me, that is an impossible task for me, unfortunately. For one, I type with only one finger, literally. I have issues with joints in my fingers at times since arthritis runs in my family. My mother ended up literally crippled by it, and that she died in that miserable state. Imagine only typing with one finger? Do you think you could still address as many posts as you do if that's what you basically had to do as well? It's embarrassing even admitting I only type with one finger. Yet, it's a fact, so why hide it from anyone I guess.

Don't be embarrassed. You can only do what you can do and that's all. As I said in another post to you yesterday, I don't have any certain expectations for how long it should take you to respond to me. You don't even have to respond at all. So, please remember that and don't think that I'm impatiently waiting for you to respond to every single one of my posts.

Douggg · Oct 20, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Do you think no one has understood Daniel's prophecies until our day and age? That must be what you think since it says his book would be sealed up (the meaning of it not revealed) until the time of the end.

The fulfillment of the prophecies in Daniel 12 will not happen until the time of the end.

keras · Oct 20, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Your ad-hoc mode of interpretation is breathtaking. No Scripture is safe.

You mean the way AMills change Revelation 20 to suit their beliefs?

TribulationSigns · Oct 20, 2021

Douggg said:
God, had Aaron with his rod touch the waters of the Nile, it turned to blood.

Exodus 7:19 And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and that there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood, and in vessels of stone.

Regarding the moon, is God not able?

Sigh!....

Okay...the "plagues" of Egypt back in Moses' days did take place literally for our understanding because these do have spiritual signification since we see the same thing in the Book of Revelation. It does NOT mean that the similar plagues in the book of Revelation will be fulfilled literally as well.

For example, look in the Book of Revelation 11...

Rev 11:7-8
(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

THIS is the spiritual Egypt where she will receive the plagues of Revelation. But what great city is this? It is New Testament Congregation that the Lord judges prior to Second Coming. Remember His house must be judged first before the world.

Think about it. In Exdous, the waters of Egypt support the city where Pharoah is that Egyptians serve. God is painting a spiritual picture here. Their water has turned to blood for the Egyptians so they can't drink it but the Jews standing afar can drink their water. Do you understand the spiritual signification of this? In Revelation, Satan becomes a Pharoah (king) through the false prophets and christs in the New Testament Congregation where she has spiritually become like Egypt. Her water is the Gospel that supported the once faithful city. Consider wisely:

Rev 16:3-6
(3) And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
(4) And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
(5) And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
(6) For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

Is it that God is avenging the blood of His Saints and struck it upon the waters so that the unfaithful of the congregation will no longer be able to drink the living waters through the testimony of Two Witnesses? They have rejected or silenced the truthful testimony of Two Witnesses so God caused their water to be polluted with wormwood which is a poison. IN other words, they drink blood as they believe the lies of the devils RIGHT IN THE CONGREGATION. That is why God told His Elect to come out of her so they will not partake of the plagues!

Do you honestly think God will pollute the Atlantic Ocean (sea) with Saints' blood to drink? What every living soul in the sea did God talk about here that will die? Come on, think again and read carefully what Scripture says. Only those with spirit will understand what God is really talking about here.

Spiritual Jew · Oct 20, 2021

Douggg said:
The fulfillment of the prophecies in Daniel 12 will not happen until the time of the end.

I agree, but we disagree on what time period that "the time of the end" includes.

Do you understand that it's not just the prophecies of Daniel 12 that were supposed to be sealed up until the time of the end, but the entire book of Daniel?

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

So, it's not just talking about the prophecies in Daniel 12 being sealed up until the time of the end, but the entire book. Surely, even you can acknowledge that at least some of the things Daniel prophesied about have already been fulfilled, right? Such as the coming of the Messiah and the Messiah being cut off in Daniel 9. What does that tell you about what time period "the time of the end" includes? It's the same time period as "the last days" which you said earlier started with the death of Christ on the cross.

When was Satan bound?

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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