United Airlines to fire 593 unvaccinated employees

rjs330 said:

It's now creeping into the general sector. Sports, retail, airlines etc. I guess it's the world we are living in. If you don't like it, work somewhere else.

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Vaccine mandates have already been a thing for a long while. The main difference is they're usually done during childhood so by the time one is an adult, they are already fully vaccinated.

For example, this is page has a list of Florida's public school/daycare vaccine requirements: School Immunization Requirements | Florida Department of Health

Here's another one for Texas: Texas Minimum Vaccine Requirements for Students Grades K-12

These have been in place for a lot longer than the pandemic. That people are acting like vaccine mandates are a new thing boggles my mind.

bèlla said:

In all fairness, most people determined not to take the vaccine were aware of their stance long ago. Employees should be making provisions for mandates and exploring alternatives—remote work—before they’re threatened with unemployment.

You need to eat, have a place to live, etc. This shouldn’t catch anyone off-guard.

~bella

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of course, but many jobs can't :> Retail, resteraunts, hospitals, transportation of people, since while some parts, a majority of won't work :> Kinda hard to work the Mcdonalds drive through at home :>

Only thing I can MAYBE see with hospitals is they can work with covid patients, as they be catching if from them and spreading it to those already sick, but still probably a danger.

rjs330 said:

Not true. The vaccine does NOT keep you from spreading COVID. It can help you from getting it and also can help you with the symptoms if you do. The mask is what is supposed to help the spread because you don't spew out the amount of droplets.

I don't why you guys keep saying that the vaccine stops you from spreading it. That's not how it works.

NEW STUDIES: Covid vaccines do not prevent infection spread, they simply do not work – Vegas Triumph

CDC Director: Vaccines No Longer Prevent You From Spreading COVID!

Now before you go off all half cocked, I'm vaccinated. I wanted to have a lesser chance of getting it and wanted to having a better chance of recovery if I did.

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CDC"s own page says your wrong, so maybe you should update your claims.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

From the page:
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Current evidence indicates that fully vaccinated people without immunocompromising conditions are able to engage in most activities with low risk of acquiring or transmitting SARS-CoV-2, with additional prevention measures (e.g. masking) where transmission is substantial or high.
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hint if your going to repeat lies from other sites that are easily fact checked might want to fact check it yourself.

rjs330 said:

I thought masking was the preventative. Now we're are saying vaccines are? Even when the science says those that are vaccinated can still carry the virus. And now we know they can still get the virus.

I'm all for freedom of businesses to do what they want to do with their business and safety. But I. This case they are forcing their employees to undergo a medical treatment. I'm not so sure about that.

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So does washing my hands or covering my face when I sneeze help prevent the spread of a cold? WHICH IS IT?!

LOL

RaymondG said:

Yes, it would seem that way. But like I said, the reaping will not necessarily be done openingly or in a way we can say "That happened because they did this!"

And they continue as they were because, like most of us, we do not link what is happening to us now, to something we sown in the past.....so they are being mistreated for no reason or having everyone be against them for no reason, being left out because others are jealous, being persecuted for righteousness sake.....etc.... Never because they mistreated employees.

And the cycle continues until truth is revealed and the cycle is broken....and we are set free....

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Hmmm, doesn’t sound like a very effective system if the goal is getting people to do better.

rjs330 said:

The vaccine does not keep you from spr adding the virus.

CDC Director: Vaccines No Longer Prevent You From Spreading COVID!

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At this point you’re just being intentionally obtuse.

loveofourlord said:

of course, but many jobs can't :> Retail, resteraunts, hospitals, transportation of people, since while some parts, a majority of won't work :> Kinda hard to work the Mcdonalds drive through at home :>

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If that’s your stance you have to be practical and willing to face the consequences of your position. Which probably means new employment.

pitabread said:

70% isn't good enough. We need to start getting into the 90%+ range.

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More recently, we're being told it's in the 97-98% range.

If we get there, we'll be told it needs to be 100% range, or that there's a variant and we're back to effectively 0. It's been a moving target, and leading epidemiologists are indicating (and have been for a while) that herd immunity for Covid with the current vaccines is a fantasy.

whatbogsends said:

More recently, we're being told it's in the 97-98% range. It's been a moving target, and leading epidemiologists are indicating (and have been for a while) that herd immunity for Covid with the current vaccines is a fantasy.

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This is picking nits. It's been long known that for vaccines to be effective in populations, you need to have the vast majority of them vaccinated. This is not new and it hasn't been a "moving target".

Even if we never achieve true herd immunity (insofar as the virus basically being non-existant), a massively vaccinated population would still go a long way in reducing the spread of the virus and the relative burden it inflicts.

There is still every reason to get vaccinated.

cow451 said:

Remote piloting.... that could work.....

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...no doubt the airlines are working on that and android flight attendants.

RestoreTheJoy said:

Did the right thing for society? Well, if the jab actually prevented transmission or contraction of the disease, you would have a valid point. But it does not.

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Nobody says it does. But it significantly reduces the chances of transmission. I'm astonished you didn't know that. And here's some more accurate info for you:

'A recent study of more than 44,000 people in Los Angeles found unvaccinated people were 29 times more likely than vaccinated people to end up hospitalised from COVID-19. The rate of hospitalisation among vaccinated people was 1 per 100,000 people.' I'm vaccinated. What's my risk of catching COVID and passing it on?

Unfortunatey, my brother was one of the tiny proportion who needed hospitalisation after contracting it (in the UK) Thankfully he had received two vaccines but he was still sick enough to spend a week in hospital. If he hadn't been vaccinated I think there would have been a significant chance that he'd no longer be with us. But the hospitals are so overun with those who haven't been vaccinated (see the figures above) that he had to spend 30 hours lying in the ambulance in the hospital car park until a bed became available.

Again, I have zero sympathy for anyone who can't get into a restaurant or a theatre or a bar or who loses their job because they consider their rights to be more important than the health of others. Absolutely zero.

whatbogsends said:

It's the all-or-nothing mentality that is driving the vaccine mandates. They are focusing all of their attention to vaccination when it is only one factor in transmission.

"substantially" reduces risk of infection is debatable.

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Whether the earth is flat or not is also debatable. Those that insist it is aren't too keen on any facts that disprove their position. Not that I'm drawing any comparisons...

pitabread said:

This is picking nits. It's been long known that for vaccines to be effective in populations, you need to have the vast majority of them vaccinated. This is not new and it hasn't been a "moving target".

Even if we never achieve true herd immunity (insofar as the virus basically being non-existant), a massively vaccinated population would still go a long way in reducing the spread of the virus and the relative burden it inflicts.

There is still every reason to get vaccinated.

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well it TECHNICALLY it's a moving target, since delta has a higher R you need higher % vaccinated.

It looks like they won’t be eligible for unemployment. Numerous sources say the same:

In most states, employees are not eligible for unemployment benefits if they are fired for violating a company policy, because it is considered misconduct.

So if a company has a vaccination policy and the consequences for violating that policy are clear, Self said, the employee may be ineligible for such benefits unless the worker was exempt from the policy for medical or religious reasons.

The unvaccinated employees deserve to be fired.

bèlla said:

If that’s your stance you have to be practical and willing to face the consequences of your position. Which probably means new employment.

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Landscaping and roofing are options.

wing2000 said:

...no doubt the airlines are working on that and android flight attendants.

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The pandemic will speed automation of more jobs.

bèlla said:

It looks like they won’t be eligible for unemployment. Numerous sources say the same:

In most states, employees are not eligible for unemployment benefits if they are fired for violating a company policy, because it is considered misconduct.

So if a company has a vaccination policy and the consequences for violating that policy are clear, Self said, the employee may be ineligible for such benefits unless the worker was exempt from the policy for medical or religious reasons.

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If one quits or is terminated for cause, it can prevent eligibility for unemployment compensation.

cow451 said:

If one quits or is terminated for cause, it can prevent eligibility for unemployment compensation.

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Bradskii said:

I'm personally up to the back teeth with those refusing to get vaccinated and actually protesting about lockdowns when they are the ones that are perpetuating the situation.

Zero sympathy. And well done to the vast majority of emplyees who did the right thing for themselves, their company, their customers, their families, their friends and colleagues and society as a whole.

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On a personal level, I'd agree 100%.

On a pragmatic level (with regards to how it impacts industries), the waters are kind of muddy.

Same way I feel about healthcare workers (specifically LPNs and CNAs) that refuse to get vaccinated...

On one hand, anyone believing in pseudoscientific quackery demeans the term "healthcare professional". But on the other hand, you fire half of the CNAs and LPNs in a hospital, that means you're in a situation where you've got surgeons and specialists changing bedpans and administering Tylenol (which isn't a good use of their time either).

It's a double-edged sword, unfortunately.

Everyone should want to get vaccinated, but on the other hand, when so many industries are short staffed and desperate to get workers, limiting their eligible employee pool so drastically puts them in a tough spot too.


It's a shame this whole thing had to get so political in the US. I was up in Canada on a little vacation last week, and it was quite refreshing to be in an area where both liberals and conservatives had solid agreement that vaccination was a good thing.