One Reason to Reject Amill Doctrine

sovereigngrace

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What you are ignoring is what he said in Barnabas 15:4----saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years.

And since he took the thousand years as literal, he is meaning the DOTL will involve a literal thousand years.

If common sense counts for anything, it is common sense that after 6 comes 7, and after 7 comes 8, and that 7 and 8 are not the same number. It is not common sense that after 6 comes 8 instead. If Barnabas concluded that Jesus rose on the 8th day, and that the Jews take Saturday to be meaning the 7th day, did Barnabas then think Jesus rose on Saturday the 7th day? Or did he actually know how to add correctly, thus he knew 8 comes after 7 and that 7 and 8 are not the same number, thus he was meaning Sunday being the day Jesus rose? In the same way, if there are 6000 years in this age according to Barnabas, and that there is then a 7th day and an 8th day, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Barnabas took the 7th day to be meaning the thousand years in Revelation 20, and that he took the 8th day to be meaning after the great white throne judgment.

Many of the early church theologians on either side of the millennial debate considered the Hexaemeron (Greek for ‘six days’) of the creation account in Genesis as predictive of world history and as representing 6 thousand years of history. They believed human history will continue for six divine days, each equal to a thousand literal years, followed by a sabbatical rest for the redeemed. Because of this, they supposed that Jesus would return at the end of the six thousand years. While there was notable agreement across the eschatological divide amongst some of the main early Church fathers in regard to the first six days representing 6 thousand literal years of history, they were split on how they interpreted the 7th day. Early Chiliasts viewed the 7th day as a literal 1000 after the second coming. They took Revelation 20 as their main support for this. Early Amils viewed the Sabbath as the eternal rest of the saints after the perfection of the earth when Jesus returns. They took support for this from the fact there was no evening mentioned in the Genesis account of the 7th day.

As Robert M. Johnston explained: “In the period centering around the first century C.E., the Sabbath rest (meaning principally the seventh day of the week) came in for a great deal of spiritualization and metaphorization … This cosmic Sabbath at the end of time was variously conceived either as being itself timeless or as being the prelude to timeless eternity” (The Eschatological Sabbath In John's Apocalypse: A Reconsideration).

Because it is largely only modern-day Premils that promote the ‘6 days = 6,000 years theory’, we can get confused when trying to understand the eschatological position of some of the ancient writers. We automatically assume that holding that position inevitably equates to the early fathers assuming a millennialist end-time position. But nothing could be further from the truth. This is another case of how we need to first determine the prevailing thinking of the day before coming to a definitive position on an early writer. That of course is if we want to be accurate in our conclusions. It is naïve and foolish to impose our modern-day thinking on the same.

The fact is, this theory was widely held by many believers of differing eschatological views in the early days of the New Testament Church.

Barnabas is not the only consummationist to hold to the ‘6 days = 6,000 years theory’. Several other leading figures also held to it. Cyprian, Aphrahat, Hilary, Tyconius, Jerome, Sulpicius, Severus and Augustine join Barnabas on the Amillennialist side (8 in total). Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Commodianus, Lactantius, Victorinus and Gaudentius hold it on the Chiliast side (6 in total). We may of course have overlooked others, but this alone shows us that this ‘6 days = 6,000 years theory’ was a common belief in the infant Church. If it wasn’t for explicit anti-Chiliast statements from some of these early church Amils, modern Premils would have lumped them all in the Chiliast camp on the grounds of their belief in this 6,000 years world-view.

Many of the early Church writers, irrespective of their end-time views, embraced the natural weekly cycle of six working days and one for rest and worship. This made it a lot easier for them to accept the idea of 6 days of history representing six thousand years followed by a sabbath rest, whether a literal thousand years (advocated by the early Chiliasts) or an eternal rest (held by the early Amillennialists).

Robert M. Johnston outlines a weakness with the Premil reasoning on Revelation 20: “we have a final millennium without any mention of six earlier ones. We find a Cosmic Sabbath without a Cosmic Week. One gains the impression that this Apocalypse utilizes themes from the common store selectively, without accepting the whole” (The Eschatological Sabbath In John's Apocalypse: A Reconsideration).
 
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TribulationSigns

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Barnabas 15:2...

Like with why 20 other books aren't part of the Bible. Because the Holy Bible is GOD-INSPIRED, and the Epistle of Barnabas wasn't!
 
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DavidPT

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Like with why 20 other books aren't part of the Bible. Because the Holy Bible is GOD-INSPIRED, and the Epistle of Barnabas wasn't!


I'm not claiming it is inspired. I don't think anyone is. The argument is whether Barnabas fit Premil or fit Amil. And since Barnabas obviously held to some Premil positions I can't believe any Amil would want to claim him as Amil to begin with, yet some do for some strange reason.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I'm not claiming it is inspired. I don't think anyone is. The argument is whether Barnabas fit Premil or fit Amil. And since Barnabas obviously held to some Premil positions I can't believe any Amil would want to claim him as Amil to begin with, yet some do for some strange reason.

Of....course...not...but whatever you THINK. :)
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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What you are ignoring is what he said in Barnabas 15:4----saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years.

And since he took the thousand years as literal, he is meaning the DOTL will involve a literal thousand years.

If common sense counts for anything, it is common sense that after 6 comes 7, and after 7 comes 8, and that 7 and 8 are not the same number. It is not common sense that after 6 comes 8 instead. If Barnabas concluded that Jesus rose on the 8th day, and that the Jews take Saturday to be meaning the 7th day, did Barnabas then think Jesus rose on Saturday the 7th day? Or did he actually know how to add correctly, thus he knew 8 comes after 7 and that 7 and 8 are not the same number, thus he was meaning Sunday being the day Jesus rose? In the same way, if there are 6000 years in this age according to Barnabas, and that there is then a 7th day and an 8th day, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Barnabas took the 7th day to be meaning the thousand years in Revelation 20, and that he took the 8th day to be meaning after the great white throne judgment.
The thousand years is the current church age. A thousand years just means a very long time. The number of a thousand was used to represent a very large number.
It is symbolism as with a lot of the rest of the book of revelation. It’s meant to explain events using symbolism but it is closed up and sealed until the appropriate time. We aren’t supposed to have full understanding yet.
 
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DavidPT

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Of....course...not...but whatever you THINK. :)


Just so we're on the same page, since your response here seems somewhat confusing, you do know I was meaning that Barnabas' writings were not God inspired, and that I wasn't meaning the Holy Bible instead, right?
 
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sovereigngrace

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I'm not claiming it is inspired. I don't think anyone is. The argument is whether Barnabas fit Premil or fit Amil. And since Barnabas obviously held to some Premil positions I can't believe any Amil would want to claim him as Amil to begin with, yet some do for some strange reason.

Many modern scholars and historians get confused when studying the statements of some of the early fathers; none more so than their view of the writings of Barnabas. While this type of thinking is foreign to us living today, it was common among the early Church. To reinforce this unique custom, the early Christian writers used many unique, extravagant and varying scriptural arguments to support this innovative ancient practice.

Bible-believing Christians have always believed that the only grounds for truly justifying any practice or belief is the solid territory of Scripture. In their teaching on this matter, the early writers went out of their way to make the sacred text the preeminent source of their argument. They rightly empathized the importance of the number 8 in the Bible, and showed the scriptural pattern that 8 was the number of new beginnings. However, some of their biblical arguments used to justify calling Sunday the 8th day were stretched at best and gerrymandered at worse to support their own partial theological purposes.

Of course, the resurrection of Christ on a Sunday more than anything else was the pivotal factor in their rational. It was the ultimate and decisive new beginning in Christendom. This saw the introduction of the new (eternal) covenant era. This saw the abolition of the old covenant arrangement. This was a seismic change in religious practice for believers.

Whilst the unregenerate Jews continued to zealously celebrate their Sabbath on a Saturday (their 7th day), early Christians considered their Sabbath day Sunday as the 8th, because it embodied the idea of new beginnings revealed in the supernatural resurrection of Christ. But the mainly Jewish early Church, in its infant state, saw Sunday starting at sun-down on the Roman Saturday. Therefore, uniquely, the 7th Roman day also saw the appearance of the 8th Jewish day.

The introduction of Sunday-keeping was a notable mark of differentiation between Christianity and Judaism. While most orthodox Christians did not observe the Sabbath in the Jewish sense, many Jewish believers did attend the synagogue on the Jewish Sabbath because it was the only way many had of accessing the Old Testament Scriptures. In the synagogue, they had the benefit of hearing the public reading of the inspired pages. As a result, Christian gatherings often took place on a Saturday evening after the Jewish Sabbath had ended. This replaced the traditional Havdallah service, a Jewish religious ceremony that marks the symbolic end of Sabbath and the ushering in of a new week.

It was here that they would discuss what they had earlier heard in the synagogue, give a Christian sense of the inspired text and examine the messianic significance of these readings. As the Gospel spread to the major Christian communities in Antioch, Alexandria, Rome, Asia Minor and throughout the Roman Empire this custom was widely observed. These post-Sabbath meetings became the norm.

So, having Church on Saturday evening after sun-set constituted Sunday worship from a Jewish perspective or Saturday worship within the regular Roman system. It was easy for Christians to view this overlap as both the 7th and the 8th day of the week, and therefore fit their theological paradigm.

The early Church were obviously treated with everything from suspicious and to open aggression and persecution by existing well-established Christ-rejecting Judaism. Samuele Bacchiocchi writes: “The Jewish hostilities toward the Christians seem to have known intense degrees of manifestation at certain times” (From Sabbath to Sunday, p. 224).

The Jewish antagonism toward the Church created strong anti-Judaic feelings amongst the patriarchs. The early writers went out of their way to distance themselves from apostate Judaism and used Sunday observance as an effective tool of distinction and separation between the two. Because Sunday worship was a major bone of contention, biblical grounds were required and used to justify their new and distinct practices.

As Christians got more access to the Old Testament Scriptures and were blessed with better access to the New Testament revelation they became less dependent upon the synagogue for their scriptural education. The process of separation became inevitable for both sides and led to the majority of the Christians abandoning the Jewish Sabbath and adopting Sunday as their unique day of worship.

Bacchiocchi sums up the thinking of the early fathers, saying: “The Sabbath and circumcision are not to be observed since they are the signs of the unfaithfulness of the Jews, imposed on them by God to distinguish and separate them from other nations” (From Sabbath to Sunday, p. 223).

The early fathers of the Church used various clever arguments from the Old Testament to support their idea that the Sunday Sabbath should be considered the 8th day on the religious calendar. The most popular and compelling Old Testament argument was derived from Leviticus 23:39. There, the last day of the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles – which was a Sunday – was considered a Sabbath. But instead of Sunday being the 1st day of week during the festival it was known as the 8th day. With its typical foreshadowing of the resurrection of Christ, it is not hard to see how the early Christian writers used this to support their theory and how the view of the eighth-day-Sabbath got formulated and became accepted.

Other supplementary arguments were added to reinforce this popular belief. Of course, the 8th day was also the old covenant day for circumcising a Jewish man-child. This was spiritualized by the early fathers to support the-Sunday-Lord’s-Day-concept and also reinforce their theological views on how the second coming would fit in with the framework of time. The putting away of the flesh in circumcision prefigured putting away of sin on the cross, and its defeat in the resurrection. This in turn pointed toward the glorification of the believer’s flesh when Jesus comes, on the Christian Sabbath (the 8th day).

The Ogdoad was used by some early writers to reinforce their belief about Sunday worship. The Ogdoad was a poplar first century term that meant “the eighth.’ Another argument related to a phrase in the title of the introduction to the 6th Psalm which is said to be “upon Sheminith” or “upon the eighth.” This is believed to relate to an instrument relating to the 8th key. The fixation with the number 8 was prominent in the early writings.

Those early writers that believed in a climactic coming of Christ made much of the fact that the 7th day of creation (the Sabbath) in the book of Genesis was never said to have an evening. This reinforced their belief that after 6 days of time (which many said represented 6,000 years) the 7th day would be an eternal day. This reasoning was intended to rebut the Chiliast expectation that the 7th day was a thousand years long earthly kingdom.

Some of the other reasoning was decidedly questionable and seemingly prejudiced. For example, Origen sets forth his justification for Sunday being the 8th day in his Seventh Homily on Exodus, (paragraph 5):

It is plain from Holy Writ that manna was first given on earth on the Lord’s day … But if it be clear from the Holy Scriptures that God rained manna from heaven on the Lord’s day, and rained none on the Sabbath day, let the Jews understand that from that time our Lord’s day was set above the true Sabbath … For on our Lord’s day God always rains down manna from heaven … for the discourses which are delivered to us are from heaven; and the words which are preached to us have come down from God and hence we are blessed in receiving manna.​

There is no doubt Origen’s logic here is overextended and bias. With this type of hermeneutics, one could literally make the Bible say anything one wished.

Another example can be found in Justin’s thesis in the Dialogue with Trypho (138:1-2). There, he palpably twists Scripture to make it say what he wants it to say:

“You know, then, sirs,” I said, “that God has said in Isaiah to Jerusalem: ‘I saved thee in the deluge of Noah’. By this which God said was meant that the mystery of saved men appeared in the deluge. For righteous Noah, along with the other mortals at the deluge, i.e., with his own wife, his three sons and their wives, being eight in number, were a symbol of the eighth day, wherein Christ appeared when He rose from the dead, for ever the first in power (Chapter CXXXVIII - Noah is a figure of Christ, who has regenerated us by water, and faith, and wood).​

Using the eight survivors on the ark as proof that Sunday is the 8th day of the week is another huge stretch, to put it mildly. It is blatantly manipulating the Word of God in order to justify (at best) a religious theory.

Let’s be under no illusion, this practice was simply a man-made religious tradition. There is no New Testament direction or custom to call Sunday the 8th day. It was clearly used as a means to distance the early Church from Judaism. Whilst the motive and meaning may have been understandable and wholesome, no one could conclusively present clear biblical grounds for the same. But the early writers definitely gave it their best. It might have been wise for Cyprian to take his own advice in Epistle 73, chapter 9:

Nor ought custom, which had crept in among some, to prevent the truth from prevailing and conquering; for custom without truth is the antiquity of error. On which account, let us forsake the error and follow the truth.​
 
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DavidPT

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The thousand years is the current church age. A thousand years just means a very long time. The number of a thousand was used to represent a very large number.
It is symbolism as with a lot of the rest of the book of revelation. It’s meant to explain events using symbolism but it is closed up and sealed until the appropriate time. We aren’t supposed to have full understanding yet.


I fully understand that since I know that is how Amils today take it to mean. But since Barnabas is being claimed as Amil, did he too take the thousand years to mean that? One can't be Amil unless they think the thousand years precede the 2nd coming. One can't be Amil if they instead think the thousand years are post the 2nd coming. Amil means before the 2nd coming, in regards to the thousand years. Premil means after the 2nd coming. As far as I can tell since Barnabas mentioned 8 days and that he took the thousand years in the literal sense, and to him the 8th day was obviously meaning the eternal age after the great white throne judgment, well what about the 7th day, what did that mean to him? We just skip that day? We just make that the same day as the 8th day, though common sense alone already debunks that possibility?
 
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sovereigngrace

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I fully understand that since I know that is how Amils today take it to mean. But since Barnabas is being claimed as Amil, did he too take the thousand years to mean that? One can't be Amil unless they think the thousand years precede the 2nd coming. One can't be Amil if they instead think the thousand years are post the 2nd coming. Amil means before the 2nd coming, in regards to the thousand years. Premil means after the 2nd coming. As far as I can tell since Barnabas mentioned 8 days and that he took the thousand years in the literal sense, and to him the 8th day was obviously meaning the eternal age after the great white throne judgment, well what about the 7th day, what did that mean to him? We just skip that day? We just make that the same day as the 8th day, though common sense alone already debunks that possibility?

Please read my post above and it should dispel the confusion.
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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I fully understand that since I know that is how Amils today take it to mean. But since Barnabas is being claimed as Amil, did he too take the thousand years to mean that? One can't be Amil unless they think the thousand years precede the 2nd coming. One can't be Amil if they instead think the thousand years are post the 2nd coming. Amil means before the 2nd coming, in regards to the thousand years. Premil means after the 2nd coming. As far as I can tell since Barnabas mentioned 8 days and that he took the thousand years in the literal sense, and to him the 8th day was obviously meaning the eternal age after the great white throne judgment, well what about the 7th day, what did that mean to him? We just skip that day? We just make that the same day as the 8th day, though common sense alone already debunks that possibility?
Archimandrite Cleopa (Ilie). On the Thousand Year Reign (Chiliasm)
The Error of Chiliasm. Fr. Michael Pomazansky
Fr. John Whiteford. If Satan is Alive, Why Not Millennialism?
:bye:
 
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grafted branch

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One thing I can’t understand about the 6 days of creation = 6,000 years and the 7th day = the millennium is that Jesus was there when the first 6 days of creation occurred and he could’ve count it out to know the day and hour of his second coming. Also 2 Peter 3:8 is referring to Psalms 90:4, so if 1 day = 1,000 years should we assume Jesus didn’t understand Psalms 90:4 when he says only the Father knows the day and hour in Matthew 24:36?

Am I missing something here or does this all boil down to the idea that only the Father knows the “rapture” date and all the other dates can be known?
 
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Timtofly

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Jesus and the Apostles taught Amillennialism. But only the born again can see the Kingdom. The Pharisees created Premillennialism and still look for the Kingdom they altogether missed. Please consider the gospel of the Kingdom.
Jesus told people to change and deny God's Word?

Jesus taught that He would return and set up a kingdom. Jesus never said when, because He taught no one would know.

Jesus taught the kingdom was not going to happen in that generation. That is not amil. That teaching refutes preterism. Jesus was telling them that Paradise was not a kingdom at all. That is not the same thing as amil, no matter how much amil spin God's Word.

Even when Augustine came along, humans still had not settled the issue. And some equated a return as a means to fix society. Constantine had just made Christianity an official kingdom of the world. Augustine pointed out, "No, the kingdom was in heaven and eternal". He taught many had already entered, and this earth was of no eternal consequence. Thus any Christian kingdom on earth was only by God's grace.

Stating that there has always been a heavenly kingdom is not Amillennialism. Jesus claiming no earthly Kingdom and that it was heavenly is not Amillennialism. They were talking about Paradise, the place where Adam and his family were always supposed to inhabit. Paradise has nothing to do with the Millennium at all.

The Pharisees were not wrong on their teachings of a coming heavenly kingdom. They were wrong on how they currently lived in the world. Paul was a Pharisee and taught the same coming kingdom. Jesus taught the same kingdom as the Pharisees taught. That is because, they all viewed the OT prophecy as Paradise restored. The Pharisees taught a bodily resurrection even before Jesus was the official Resurrection and the Life, as some put it.

The only thing they hated Jesus for, was he was a current threat to their only means of survival in this world. It really had nothing to do with their doctrine and teachings that held to the OT Word of God. They just rejected that Jesus was that Word of God. No one was amill, post mill, nor pre mill. They were not even talking about the Second Coming and the rule of Christ on earth. They all taught that Paradise existed in the heavenlies with God. Actually the Jews were still looking for the first coming.

When Constantine made the church the state, Augustine came along and had to point out that it would not work, because the church on earth was temporary, and the true kingdom was Paradise. If anything at all, Augustine pointed out that no Christian earthly Kingdom would last, unless Christ were present to rule over it. The wickedness of humanity, even as Christians, hindered a perfect kingdom on earth.

Augustine never taught that Jesus Christ would never return. The "coming" kingdom is not that it is "coming", but already here. Paradise existed since creation. In the end Augustine was convinced by another voice, that Paradise is a "coming" kingdom that replaced the notion of Christ on earth.

Doctrine has always been the clash between opposing opinions and interpretations of humans. It is not what naturally comes out of God's Word. If it where natural, there would be no opposition period. So any one proud of the fact their doctrine is a majority of public opinion are basing their beliefs on popularity and not God's Word.

The issue is that still today many equate Paradise with a Millennial Kingdom. It is not. Nor could any be right in saying the return is just around the corner, as history defiantly rejects that notion. Even Augustine knew the Second Coming had not happened in the third century, so any proof to the contrary is not historically validated, no matter how coincidental historical record appears. History can be more symbolized than even Scripture, especially when scriptural symbolism is involved.

Augustine did not teach Amillennialism. He was just convinced by others that what he had taught was Amillennialism. It was not, and remains that way, no matter how hard people persist in that notion. Amill are just as wrong as the people whom they think they are in opposition to. In fact as pointed out, some accepted the truth, but later changed their minds. Now a false notion is their new truth.

The imminent return is a fact given as a comforting promise. It should not be a means after hundreds of generations to make God out to be a liar. Many thought in 500AD, that there had already been 6 Millenniums. That was the birth of one form of pre-mill thought. Evidently the Pharisees were looking for the Second Coming before the first, if some claim they taught pre-mill. Obviously Jesus was pre-the last 2 mill. Now many claim the Jesuits started pre-mill. That was hundreds of years ago. Now that we face a new Millennium many declare this surely cannot be the time of the second coming. They are not technically amill in theology, any more than denying Christ will come soon.

Sure there is a pre-mill today that are certain the return is soon, but that was never the point of how John put a pre-mill fact in Revelation 20. John never even directly claims Christ stays on the earth, yet Christ promised at His return He would set up His glorious throne. So the naysayers, will declare too much symbolism and not enough literal proof to refute their false doctrine, which only works when symbolism just means more symbolism to infinity.
 
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Timtofly

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They were all Amil, except Irenaeus.
How could they be amil when no one even taught about the mil.

Are you saying they all went around accusing future humans of the heresy of reading Revelation 20 as written?
 
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Jamdoc

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As an individual studier of the Bible and as one who has never been exposed to mans teachings and doctrines, I had never heard of the AMill theory until recently, on this forum.
I simply cannot see how the idea that we are in the Millennium now has any substance or support whatsoever. It directly contradicts many scriptures.
Events to unfold will soon show how wrong AMill and many other theories, like the 'rapture to heaven', are. I just pray that those Christians who have been deceived with such false teachings, will still be able to stand firm thru all that must happen.

Well except rapture is something taught in a few places in scripture 1 Thessalonians 4, John 14, Isaiah 26, 1 Corinthians 15, as it's all connected to the Resurrection.

But yes, Amillennialism primarily comes out of unbelief that God can or will fulfill prophecy literally.
It probably got its start after the Jewish diaspora. A lot of prophecies then seemed like they could not be fulfilled literally, so people started trying to spiritualize scripture because well, Israel's gone, how could these prophecies about Israel come true? Oh, spiritual Israel, all those prophecies involve the Church. It was also largely tied to preterism, believing that Revelation was about Rome. Many early Amillennialists actually did see a literal 1000 year kingdom just placing it in Heaven rather than on Earth, but after it'd been more than 1000 years.. they kind of had to make the length of time abstract too.
 
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Timtofly

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Premillennialism is the doctrine of the Pharisees. They rejected the Gospel of the Kingdom because you have to be born-again to see it.
So for 70 years prior to the birth of Jesus, the Pharisees rejected the future teachings of Jesus?
 
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Timtofly

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Barnabas taught:

Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. “And He rested on the seventh day.” This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day … when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves.

This is the opposite to Premil where sin, death, Satan, evil and the wicked continue to operate on their alleged millennial earth.

For he who keepeth these shall be glorified in the kingdom of God; but he who chooseth other things shall be destroyed with his works. On this account there will be a resurrection, on this account a retribution … For the day is at hand on which all things shall perish with the evil [one]. The Lord is near, and His reward … be ye taught of God, inquiring diligently what the Lord asks from you; and do it that ye maybe safe in the day of judgment.

This couldn't be clearer! What day is at hand? His Second Advent! This proves that he believed Satan and all wickedness will come to an end when Jesus comes. Barnabas was Amil!

Wickedness not only survives the second coming in Premil but it prospers to the degree that sin, death, war, the wicked, corruption and Satan overwhelm your new earth. Wickedness swamps the Premil millennium, perpetrated by billions of stiff-necked rebels (as the sand of the sea) who become instant Satan worshippers after suffering 1000 years of Christ's righteous rule. This is the opposite to Amil, that believes the wicked and wickedness cease to exist at the return of Christ. Barnabas and most of the early writers believed that.
You misinterpret Barnabas about as bad as you you misinterpret John in Revelation 20. Did you intentionally miss this part?

then shall He truly rest on the seventh day … when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves.

This is Revelation 20, and the 1000 year reign of Christ. You cannot place your rejection of God's Word on other people's bad opinion. Barnabas is saying the same thing I have been posting for the last year, and you claim I made it up.

The 7th Trumpet is the end of Daniel's 70th week, and then will be the Day of the Lord, the Lord's Day, a Sabbath, set apart as Holy unto the Lord. I guess Barnabas was just making it all up and it was "his opinion". Barnabas could read Exodus 20 like all other humans could if they accept the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Should we ask Barnabas to quote Scripture to prove his point?
 
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Timtofly

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Where in Barnabas 15:4 did he say (and I quote you): "Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years"?

You obviously have a false translation - one that fits your theology. Here is how it really reads:

It is written concerning the Sabbath in the Decalogue which [the Lord] spoke, face to face, to Moses on Mount Sinai, "And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart. And He says in another place, "If my sons keep the Sabbath, then will I cause my mercy to rest upon them. The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: "And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it.” Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, He finished in six days.This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years.” Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished.And He rested on the seventh day.” This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Moreover, He says, Thou shalt sanctify it with pure hands and a pure heart.If, therefore, any one can now sanctify the day which God hath sanctified, except he is pure in heart in all things, we are deceived. Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure." Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.
This proves Barnabas is pre-mil. At the Second Coming, at the end of 6000 years, there will be a Sabbath of 1000 years.

He even claims 8 days, 8000 years. Is that not what I posted, and you claimed I was just making it up.
 
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Timtofly

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One thing I can’t understand about the 6 days of creation = 6,000 years and the 7th day = the millennium is that Jesus was there when the first 6 days of creation occurred and he could’ve count it out to know the day and hour of his second coming. Also 2 Peter 3:8 is referring to Psalms 90:4, so if 1 day = 1,000 years should we assume Jesus didn’t understand Psalms 90:4 when he says only the Father knows the day and hour in Matthew 24:36?

Am I missing something here or does this all boil down to the idea that only the Father knows the “rapture” date and all the other dates can be known?
1000 years is the lowest common denominator.

How can you even get a year and a month of precision if 1000 is as precise as given? Then a week, day and hour. While seconds and minutes are more precise than day or hour, the point is not the exact year, day, or hour at the end of one Millennium and the next. This is not a Y2K issue. Even the birth of Jesus and a life of 33.5 years is not precise that Jesus was born on the first day of 0, and killed in April of 33AD. It was more like some time in 4BC and April of 30AD. To put that on scale of a precise 1000, then Adam was placed in the Garden around 4000BC. Adam sinned 3970BC 30 years later. Adam's placement was 4000 years before Christ lived. Adam sinned 4000 years from when Christ was on the Cross.

The placement of Adam, the life of Adam in the Garden, and the time of Adam's disobedience, has to be taken into consideration.

I was taught Adam sinned within 12 or 17 hours from the 6th day. Adam sinned on the Sabbath. As I grew older that never made sense. God did not even plant the Garden, until that day of rest came to an end. The Garden was not on the 6th day. Eve was not even on the 6th day. The Garden and Eve came way, way, way after the 6th day.

You would have to know the exact day and hour Adam sinned. 4000 years later was the Cross. But 2000 years after the Cross, or 6000 years after Adam sinned, if it was the exact same hour and day, just gives us the last day and hour it could be. God could declare the sentence over at any time before the exact end. The probability of it going past that time is slim.

"Indeed, if the length of this time had not been limited, no one would survive; but for the sake of those who have been chosen, its length will be limited."

Jesus says it is going to get worse, way worse than ever before, even Noah's Flood, even 70AD, before it can get better. So, the Second Coming happens in the midst of all this trouble at the end, but even the trouble itself will not pinpoint the day or hour of the Second Coming. It could happen in really bad trouble, but the worse part could still happen after the Second Coming, because no one knows, even if they think they do. No one can even agree on the GT. The GT is not even the last known 42 month period. The Second Coming is not the last second, minute, or even hour, because, sure, one could pinpoint the exact end of 2000 years from April of 30AD. Although many claim 33AD. So even then there is a margin of opinion error of 3 years itself. Not even enough time equal to the 42 months Satan is allowed control over the earth.
 
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jgr

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But yes, Amillennialism primarily comes out of unbelief that God can or will fulfill prophecy literally.

Scripture's first prophecy:

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Was it fulfilled literally?
 
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Just The Facts

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Hello Samantha

I’m sorry but that’s not true.
Mathetes (The Epistle of Mathetes), Hermas (The Shepherd of Hermas), Clement of Rome, The Didache, Barnabas, Irenaeus, and Hegesippus were all Amillennial.

Wow really not one of these is amill unless you ignore what they wrote and select a single line out of context. Some one else showed Barnabas, I will show Clement.

1Clem 42:3
Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully assured
through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in
the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went
forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come.

Notice they went forth teaching the Kingdom SHOULD COME not has come.

Now onto Dave L

you quote many verses but you are so lost when it comes to their understanding. The kingdom is come because once you have accepted the truth you are Guaranteed to be a sheep not a goat. YOUR REWARD FOLLOWS YOU. Jesus tells Peter why do you worry about those who will kill you this life means nothing they can not take your reward because it follows you.

[13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth." "Blessed indeed," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!"

Or this for example.

[27] Then Peter said in reply, "Lo, we have left everything and followed you. What then shall we have?"[28] Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.[29] And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Your deeds follow you and when Jesus returns you INHERIT the Kingdom

Jesus tells in very plain language when the kingdom comes and when we enter it.

[31] "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. [32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,[33] and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. [34] Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

You are mistaking Scripture saying that you shall have the Kingdom or you have entered it with when you actually get it. Do what is right love your neighbor do good to others and be assured you have entered the Kingdom because your reward follows you and you shall INHERIT the kingdom at Jesus' return.
 
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