Hebrews says that God's new covenant nullified the old

Original Happy Camper · Aug 25, 2021

Guojing said:
James 2:10 would be a good verse for you to use. =)

Yes we are all sinners and need to repent

I really like these also as they refer to those who claim to love JESUS not those that do not claim JESUS

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

(Sounds like judgement to me)

Remember the first sin, in the garden of Eden, was disobedience

A_Thinker · Aug 25, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
Do you obey GOD?

As a child of God, I certainly obey my Father ... although imperfectly ...

A_Thinker · Aug 25, 2021

Guojing said:
James 2:10 would be a good verse for you to use. =)

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is become guilty of all.

A point to realize ... is that I am not trying to follow any set of laws.

I am attempting to maintain good and loving fellowship with my Father.

The (second) Covenant of Grace does not depend upon my not stumbling. It depends upon my Father's willingness to forgive my stumbling ...

A_Thinker · Aug 25, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Original Happy Camper said:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 6

26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me, not because you saw the miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labor not for the meat which perishes, but for that meat which endures unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him has God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he has sent.
...

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger; and he that believes on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That you also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and him that comes to me, I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which has sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which sees the Son, and believes on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Guojing · Aug 25, 2021

A_Thinker said:
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is become guilty of all.

A point to realize ... is that I am not trying to follow any set of laws.

I am attempting to maintain good and loving fellowship with my Father.

The (second) Covenant of Grace does not depend upon my not stumbling. It depends upon my Father's willingness to forgive my stumbling ...

I was referring to what you replied to him

↑
So you are a Seventh day Sabbath keeper as the will of GOD says because you obey him?
I observe the principle of Sabbath day rest ...

You cannot observe the principle without keeping the Sabbath law itself

A_Thinker · Aug 25, 2021

Guojing said:
You cannot observe the principle without keeping the Sabbath law itself

Mark 2

23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

25 He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26 In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”

27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

Guojing · Aug 25, 2021

A_Thinker said:
Mark 2

23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

25 He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26 In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”

27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

Anyway, the Body of Christ is not under the Law (Romans 6:14), so all these don't matter, including our previous discussion about the New Covenant.

Original Happy Camper · Aug 26, 2021

A_Thinker said:
John 6

26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me, not because you saw the miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labor not for the meat which perishes, but for that meat which endures unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him has God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he has sent.
...

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger; and he that believes on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That you also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and him that comes to me, I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which has sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which sees the Son, and believes on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 2:23
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

this article will provide clarity on Faith and Works

Faith at Work | Christian life, faith and works

Original Happy Camper · Aug 26, 2021

Guojing said:
Anyway, the Body of Christ is not under the Law (Romans 6:14), so all these don't matter, including our previous discussion about the New Covenant.

The Body of Christ (true believers) are not under the condemnation of the law because Jesus paid that price, but they will be judged by the law.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Jude 1:15
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Why do you think the ten commandments (his testimony) are in the ark under the mercy seat.

Exodus 25:16
And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Guojing · Aug 26, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
The Body of Christ (true believers) are not under the condemnation of the law because Jesus paid that price, but they will be judged by the law.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Jude 1:15
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Why do you think the ten commandments (his testimony) are in the ark under the mercy seat.

Exodus 25:16
And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Are you talking about rewards when you state "judged by the law"?

A_Thinker · Aug 26, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 2:23
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

this article will provide clarity on Faith and Works

Faith at Work | Christian life, faith and works

Our works are the basis for reward in the new life, ... but not that life itself ...

1 Corinthians 3

9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.

14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved — even though only as one escaping through the flames.

ralliann · Aug 27, 2021

Soyeong said:
Romans 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

This verse specifically states that it was even speaking about those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, so Paul did not limit what he was speaking about to only the sin of Adam. In Romans 3:20, God's law was given to give us knowledge of sin, so that is relevant context to any verse that speaks about the law being given, and the fact that Paul was speaking about death reigning from Adam to Moses, does not mean that what I said isn't also true

Rather, what I said was in accordance with Paul's statement.

God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), so the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness is therefore also eternal (Psalms 119:160), so the Mosaic Law simply revealed what has always been eternally true, while if the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness were to change when the Mosaic Law was given, then God's righteousness would not be eternal. The curse of death has always been based on what is against God's eternal righteousness, and sinning against God's righteousness before the Mosaic Law was given was the same as it was after it was given.

I can agree that sin was in the world before the law of Moses. But Moses law was Additional law. Law prior to Moses was retained, which law is the law of faith. Moses law increased sin, because law was increased in the Sinai covenant. Therefore grace was increased because God would keep his oath to their fathers. That is God is faithful to keep the oath.

Soyeong said:
That's basic common sense. If there is nothing that defines what sin is, then saying "sin was in the world before the law was given" is gibberish that communicates nothing, so you are making what Paul said out to be gibberish, while I think that there is sense to what Paul was trying to communicate.

Anything not of faith is sin.....God is faithful, he keeps his oath made to Abraham. He is also the judge of all the earth, the revenger of blood.

Who do you think were crying to God in Sodom? It is said it was a great cry, meaning many. God was going to go down and see if the great cry that came to him was indeed true.
Ge 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Yet we know that not even 5 were left in the city that were righteous. Who were all these making a great cry to God?
Ge 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.

The righteous slain, their blood was crying out to God?

Original Happy Camper · Aug 28, 2021

Guojing said:
Are you talking about rewards when you state "judged by the law"?

YES
Either eternal life or consumed by the lake of fire

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Guojing · Aug 28, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
YES
Either eternal life or consumed by the lake of fire

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Eternal life is given to us by faith apart from works romans 4:5

A_Thinker · Aug 28, 2021

Guojing said:
Are you talking about rewards when you state "judged by the law"?

Original Happy Camper said:
Either eternal life or consumed by the lake of fire

Neither eternal life or the lake of fire is a reward.

Eternal life is a GIFT conferred upon those who have reconciled with God ... and become a part of His family

John 10

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Christ Jesus, our Lord.

The lake of fire ... is a CONDEMNATION ... reserved for those who remain outside of God's family.

John 3

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Original Happy Camper · Aug 28, 2021

Guojing said:
Eternal life is given to us by faith apart from works romans 4:5

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Original Happy Camper · Aug 28, 2021

A_Thinker said:
Neither is a reward.

Eternal life is a GIFT conferred upon those who have reconciled with God ... and become a part of His family

The lake of fire ... is a CONDEMNATION ... reserved for those who remain outside of God's family.

Think about this,

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

The first resurrection is the righteous in Christ raised (those who have been judged to receive eternal life.

1000 years later those judged not fit for Heaven will be raised and consumed

Thus their rewords for their works

A_Thinker · Aug 28, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

True faith ... will produce works. No works, ... no faith.

But consider ... giving witness to the truth of the gospel is, in itself, a work.

Luke 23

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.”

42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

A_Thinker · Aug 28, 2021

Original Happy Camper said:
1000 years later those judged not fit for Heaven will be raised and consumed

In the context of the New Covenant, ... what does "not fit for heaven" mean ?

Danthemailman · Aug 28, 2021

Guojing said:
Eternal life is given to us by faith apart from works romans 4:5

Original Happy Camper said:
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Hebrews says that God's new covenant nullified the old

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