64% of COVID Delta Variant Deaths Had Received 1 or 2 Vaccination Doses

GOD Shines Forth! · Jul 11, 2021

GreatLakes4Ever said:
Outside Christianity, people are seeing Christians exactly how @Taodeching is describing and are deciding Christianity isn’t for them. If you don’t mind more people being tortured for all eternity, continue doing what you’re doing. If you want more people in heaven, take @Taodeching’s words to heart and consider how your words and actions are coming off to people who aren’t Christians.

I enjoyed that, thanks.

Whyayeman · Jul 11, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
The pro-vaxxers really do need to get a grip. They're not doing due diligence on anything, or performing even the most cursory checks to ensure that they're not being misled. The belief in these vaccines has become ideological, and akin to a religious cult for them.

This is precisely the opposite of the truth. It is the anti-vaccination crowd that have not done their homework properly. They are the ones ideologically opposed and akin to a cult. The anti-vaccination campaign has already done much harm and is responsible for unnecessary illness and death by dissuading people from having the vaccination.

This is a case for wielding Hanlon's Razor.

(Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.)

cow451 · Jul 11, 2021

Whyayeman said:
This is precisely the opposite of the truth. It is the anti-vaccination crowd that have not done their homework properly. They are the ones ideologically opposed and akin to a cult. The anti-vaccination campaign has already done much harm and is responsible for unnecessary illness and death by dissuading people from having the vaccination.

This is a case for wielding Hanlon's Razor.

(Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.)

NM

whatbogsends · Jul 11, 2021

essentialsaltes said:
If we look at hospitalizations, the situation is far different.

Two vaccinations 173 (19%)
Unvaccinated 733 (81%)
Total 906

And for cases requiring emergency care:

Two vaccinations 437 (14%)
Unvaccinated 2687 (86%)
Total 3124

Since these data are cumulative from Feb21 to Jun21, I suspect the death data is skewed somewhat as the only people getting vaccines at the start of Phase 1 were the very old, the very sick, and frontline workers. As you'll note, all but 2 (98%) of the dead-but-vaccinated pool were over 50. The dead-but-unvaccinated pool is also skewed toward older people, but not by so much (77%).

(So if we look just at the under 50 set, ten times as many unvaccinated people died as fully vaccinated ones.)

In February, 90+% of the population would be unvaccinated. Even in March, i would wager that fully vaccinated would be less than 20% of the population. This skews the results widely into the claim that the unvaccinated were more at risk. Even now, only 51% of the UK population is vaccinated.

COVID-19 Vaccination Tracker: Daily Rates, Statistics & Updates (pharmaceutical-technology.com)

The data presented on both sides of the argument isn't significant enough to make a valid assessment.

tall73 · Jul 23, 2021

New Jersey officials say nearly 50 fully vaccinated residents have died from COVID-19

New Jersey health officials say that almost 50 fully vaccinated people have died from COVID-19, according to data through July 12, NJ Advance Media reported on Wednesday.

Donna Leusner, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Health, told the news outlet that all 49 people who died were over 50 years old. Thirty were over 80 years old, 13 people were between 65 and 79 years old, and six were between 50 and 64 years old.

Leusner also said many of the people who died had preexisting conditions.

As COVID cases surge in Louisiana, the inevitable is happening: more breakthrough infections

And since February, there have been 2,175 breakthrough cases, accounting for about 0.1% of all vaccinated people in the state, according to the Louisiana Department of Health. Of the 1,479 people who have died since that time, 28 were vaccinated, or about 2%.

One state has had 5,000 infections, 80 deaths of vaccinated people

Breakthrough COVID-19 infections in Massachusetts have led to 80 deaths and account for more than 5,000 reported cases, according to public health data.

Breakthrough infections have led to 329 hospitalizations in the state despite representing 0.1 percent of new cases.

“COVID-19 vaccines are effective and are a critical tool to bring the pandemic under control. However, no vaccines are 100% effective at preventing illness in vaccinated people,” according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). “There will be a small percentage of fully vaccinated people who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19.”

Hawaii sees 2nd ‘breakthrough’ death of fully vaccinated resident and 243 new infections

Hawaii today recorded the second COVID-19 “breakthrough” death of an individual who was fully vaccinated, while also marking the eighth day in a row that new case counts have reached triple digits.

159 Dead, 593 Hospitalized in Illinois Breakthrough COVID Cases

More than 150 people have died and nearly 600 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in "breakthrough" cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials.

According to data updated Wednesday by the Illinois Department of Public Health, 159 people in Illinois have died due to COVID-19 or complications after being fully vaccinated. That figure equates to 2.3% of COVID-19 deaths in the state since Jan. 1, officials said.

FireDragon76 · Jul 23, 2021

I find it amazing that a group of people put so much trust in a 2,000 year old book written by anonymous authors with poorly-cited or non-existant sources, yet this same group of people don't trust medical experts that can clearly document their sources.

It proves in my mind that this whole thing is just political.

Whyayeman · Jul 23, 2021

I think I will continue to follow the advice of respected authorities on the subject and continue to ignore letters written in green ink.

tall73 · Jul 23, 2021

Whyayeman said:
I think I will continue to follow the advice of respected authorities on the subject and continue to ignore letters written in green ink.

The "green ink":

a. Did not contain advice, nor contradict advice of health officials.

b. Contained data regarding breakthrough cases, which seemed on topic to the thread.

c. Quoted information from the New Jersey State Department of Health, Louisiana Department of Health, the Illinois Department of Public Health, Massachusetts Public Health Data, and the CDC, as reported by national and local news sources.

essentialsaltes · Jul 23, 2021

tall73 said:
New Jersey health officials say that almost 50 fully vaccinated people have died from COVID-19, according to data through July 12, NJ Advance Media reported on Wednesday.

As opposed to 26,000 deaths among unvaccinated people.

Of the 1,479 people [in LA] who have died since that time, 28 were vaccinated, or about 2%.

Louisiana isn't doing great on vaccination, but about 36% of the population is fully vaccinated, but they make up only 2% of COVID deaths.

Breakthrough COVID-19 infections in Massachusetts have led to 80 deaths and account for more than 5,000 reported cases, according to public health data.

Compared to 18,000 deaths among unvaccinated people.

“COVID-19 vaccines are effective and are a critical tool to bring the pandemic under control. However, no vaccines are 100% effective at preventing illness in vaccinated people,” according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). “There will be a small percentage of fully vaccinated people who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19.”

Roughly half the US population is vaccinated. If vaccination was ineffective, you would expect half of COVID deaths to be among the vaccinated. This is not the case. The data above show that vaccines are doing their job, reducing risk of death by an enormous amount.

whatbogsends · Jul 23, 2021

essentialsaltes said:
As opposed to 26,000 deaths among unvaccinated people.

Louisiana isn't doing great on vaccination, but about 36% of the population is fully vaccinated, but they make up only 2% of COVID deaths.

Compared to 18,000 deaths among unvaccinated people.

Roughly half the US population is vaccinated. If vaccination was ineffective, you would expect half of COVID deaths to be among the vaccinated. This is not the case. The data above show that vaccines are doing their job, reducing risk of death by an enormous amount.

Essentialsaltes, you seem to be able to provide data for many topics of discussion, especially Covid-related.

Do you have data on overall mortality rates between the vaccinated and unvaccinated? Not as it relates to Covid, but overall?

What about hospitalization rates for the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations?

All of the data we get about the utility of vaccines is framed within a slice of the overall health picture (i.e. that specifically relates to Covid), and not a broader picture encompassing all health outcomes. While we certainly can't ignore the impact of Covid on public health, it is not the only factor in public health, nor should it be treated as such.

Fr. Appletree · Jul 23, 2021

durangodawood said:
Thats exactly what I was thinking.

If only a small percentage of the population is unvaccinated, then sure we might expect more deaths among the much larger vaxxed population, even if efficacy remains high. OR the highest percentage of vaxxed may occur among the most naturally vulnerable with very very few of them in the unvaxxed group (as you note).

Its important for the OP to report the current efficacy rates of the vaccines and vulnerability status of the affected alongside this other data. Absent that, we've got ignorance at best, or a despicable attempt to misinform at worst. Apples to apples, people.

Yeah, but we aren't allowed to do proportional math when it comes to child sex offenses and homosexuality, which shows that the homosexual population disproportionately sexually abuses children compared to heterosexual by as much as 24x.

If that isn't acceptable, then why should proportional analysis of Covid deaths be acceptable.

durangodawood · Jul 23, 2021

Fr. Appletree said:
Yeah, but we aren't allowed to do proportional math when it comes to child sex offenses and homosexuality, which shows that the homosexual population disproportionately sexually abuses children compared to heterosexual by as much as 24x.

If that isn't acceptable, then why should proportional analysis of Covid deaths be acceptable.

My analysis of the covid situation is either correct or not without regard to how we should interpret purported data from unrelated topics.

Fr. Appletree · Jul 23, 2021

durangodawood said:
My analysis of the covid situation is either correct or not without regard to how we should interpret purported data from unrelated topics.

I don't know. Proportions seem... homophobic.

variant · Jul 23, 2021

Fr. Appletree said:
If that isn't acceptable, then why should proportional analysis of Covid deaths be acceptable.

Because comparing groups of people based on negative traits isn't the same thing as treating viruses.

So go find somewhere else to grind that particular axe.

essentialsaltes · Jul 23, 2021

whatbogsends said:
Essentialsaltes, you seem to be able to provide data for many topics of discussion, especially Covid-related.

Do you have data on overall mortality rates between the vaccinated and unvaccinated? Not as it relates to Covid, but overall?

No, but I know the clinical trials for the vaccines demonstrate both safety and efficacy. From what I understand, published studies showed that COVID vaccine safety was similar to that of other viral vaccines.

Fr. Appletree · Jul 23, 2021

variant said:
Because comparing groups of people based on negative traits isn't the same thing as treating virus.

So go find somewhere else to grind that particular axe.

You assume that vaccination status isn't compared based on negative traits, like death.

Fr. Appletree · Jul 23, 2021

essentialsaltes said:
No, but I know the clinical trials for the vaccines demonstrate both safety and efficacy. From what I understand, published studies showed that COVID vaccine safety was similar to that of other viral vaccines.

Like the 82% chance of miscarriage during the first trimester. Yeah, super safe.

variant · Jul 23, 2021

Fr. Appletree said:
You assume that vaccination status isn't compared based on negative traits, like death.

It's useful for something other than preaching ones hate.

essentialsaltes · Jul 23, 2021

Fr. Appletree said:
Like the 82% chance of miscarriage during the first trimester. Yeah, super safe.

Like what 82% chance of miscarriage?

Online blogs and social media posts claim...

Fr. Appletree · Jul 23, 2021

variant said:
It's useful for something other than preaching ones hate.

How date you assume science is hate.

64% of COVID Delta Variant Deaths Had Received 1 or 2 Vaccination Doses

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