Salvation vs : service.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

setst777 said:
That same Jesus who

.

So you decided to start a conversation with me?
I thought you said you left it...

Welcome.... back.

Listen,

All your verses are talking to the house of Israel, before Christ died on the Cross.
The one verse you posted that is related to the "time of the gentiles", is when we are given the great commission.

So, as i told you , you can't apply Jesus's verses that he's speaking to the JEWS, as "the house of Israel",
Before He dies.... as doctrine for the body of Christ, in the time of the Gentiles.

Try not to do that 20 more times today.

setst777 · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
So you decided to start a conversation with me?
I thought you said you left it...

Welcome.... back.

Listen,

All your verses are talking to the house of Israel, before Christ died on the Cross.
The one verse you posted that is related to the "time of the gentiles", is when we are given the great commission.

So, as i told you , you can't apply Jesus's verses that he's speaking to the JEWS, as "the house of Israel",
Before He dies.... as doctrine for the body of Christ, in the time of the Gentiles.

Try not to do that 20 more times today.

You are totally wrong. Lord Jesus was teaching the Gospel. Lord Jesus did not distinguish that His message was only only for the Jews, as He taught the same Message in Revelation.

For instance:

Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB)
1 I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent.
If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

And we know your teaching is false because all the Apostles taught the same thing.

Acts 26:19-20 (WEB) 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to them of Damascus, at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

Ephesians 5:3-7 (WEB)
3 But sexual immorality, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be mentioned among you, as becomes saints; 4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not appropriate; but rather giving of thanks.
5 Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

setst777 said:
You are totally wrong. Lord Jesus was teaching the Gospel.

Jesus came not to the gentiles, but to the "house of Israel".

Also, Jesus can't be preaching the Cross to the House of Israel, when He has not died on it yet.

So, the Gospel, is.....Jesus on the Cross.
If He is not there yet, then He can't be talking about it as the "gospel" to the "House of Israel".
Those are all the verses you generally abuse, to try to teach your particular gospel.

setst777 · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Jesus came not to the gentiles, but to the "house of Israel".

Also, Jesus can't be preaching the Cross to the House of Israel, when He has not died on it yet.

So, the Gospel, is.....Jesus on the Cross.
If He is not there yet, then He can't be talking about it as the "gospel" to the "House of Israel".
Those are all the verses you generally abuse, to try to teach your particular gospel.

There is no need for the Four Gospels if it does not pertain to the Church.

The Gospel of Luke was specifically written to the Gentile Church.

Amazing how you are going to whitewash all of Lord Jesus' teachings and parables to hold onto your false doctrine.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

setst777 said:
There is no need for the Four Gospels if it does not pertain to the Church.Amazing how you are going to whitewash all of Lord Jesus' teachings and parables to hold onto your false doctrine.

I teach Pauline Theology, precisely, and clearly.
That you hear this as "whitewash", is a longstanding spiritual problem.

Also, the 4 Gospels, are written to give eyewitness account of the Living Christ.

setst777 · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
I teach Pauline Theology, precisely, and clearly.
That you hear this as "whitewash", is a longstanding spiritual problem.

Also, the 4 Gospels, are not written as Doctrine, they are written to give eyewitness account of the Living Christ.

You whitewash Paul's teaching as well, because Paul taught the same thing.

You are totally wrong in every way. Lord Jesus was teaching the Gospel, just as the Apostle Paul - they both agree.

Lord Jesus did not distinguish that His message was only only for the Jews, as He taught the same Message in Revelation - written to a Gentile Church.

For instance:

Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB)
1 I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent.
If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

And we know your teaching is false because all the Apostles taught the same thing.

Acts 26:19-20 (WEB) 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to them of Damascus, at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

Ephesians 5:3-7 (WEB)
3 But sexual immorality, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be mentioned among you, as becomes saints; 4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not appropriate; but rather giving of thanks.
5 Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

========

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

setst777 said:
You whitewash Paul's teaching as well, because Paul taught the same thing.
Lord Jesus was teaching the Gospel, just as the Apostle Paul - they both agree.

Lord Jesus did not distinguish that His message was only only for the Jews,

Listen carefully...

Jesus didnt teach this.....>"my Gospel" to the House of Israel, .....as that is Paul's Gospel in the "time of the Gentiles".
Research that, and you'll find the three times he says it.
Jesus could not preach "Paul's Gospel.. "the Preaching of the CROSS".....because Jesus was talking to the "House of Israel, and had not died on the Cross yet.

Here is the update for you.. The Cross is the Gospel.

So, Christ was not preaching the Cross to the 'House of Israel", as He had not died on it yet, in all of the verses that have confused you, and continue to confuse you.
See, you can't "rightly divide" and when you talk to someone who does, you are not able to even hear.

Also, Paul was not involved with Jesus's earthly ministry.
Paul was chosen after Jesus was back in Glory.
Jesus called Paul, and created his ministry as the "Apostle to the Gentiles".
You'll note that Jesus did this after he left the earth, as He had finished His earthily ministry to the "house of Israel"

setst777 · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Listen carefully...

Jesus didnt teach this.....>"my Gospel" to the House of Israel, .....as that is Paul's Gospel in the "time of the Gentiles".
Research that, and you'll find the three times he says it.
Jesus could not preach "Paul's Gospel.. "the Preaching of the CROSS".....because Jesus was talking to the "House of Israel, and had not died on the Cross yet.

Here is the update for you.. The Cross is the Gospel.

So, Christ was not preaching the Cross to the 'House of Israel", as He had not died on it yet, in all of the verses that have confused you, and continue to confuse you.
See, you can't "rightly divide" and when you talk to someone who does, you are not able to even hear.

Also, Paul was not involved with Jesus's earthly ministry.
Paul was chosen after Jesus was back in Glory.
Jesus called Paul, and created his ministry as the "Apostle to the Gentiles".
You'll note that Jesus did this after he left the earth, as He had finished His earthily ministry to the "house of Israel"

That is what you believe, but that is not the truth.

You mentioned the Great Commission of Jesus as follows:

Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB) 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Notice, Lord Jesus commanded to make disciples of all nations. Look up and see what a disciple is.

Notice that Lord Jesus commanded the Apostles to teach them to obey ALL THINGS that I commanded you.

What are all those things Lord Jesus commanded them?

John 14:26 (WEB) 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

setst777 said:
You mentioned the Great Commission of Jesus as follows:

yes.
that is the great commission.
given to all the Jews that were a part of Jesus's ministry that he was given when He was under the law, and under the old covenant/old testament.

But that was not the end., was it...
IN COMES the NEW COVENANT.
Here come the next REVELATION.
= Paul was chosen.
The "time of the Gentiles' starts, and we see the transition from Acts 2:38, where Peter is all about the water, as that is a Jewish OT situation, ...that is the "John the Baptist" Gospel, that Peter was using along with his preaching of Jesus as Messiah.

Paul said....>>"Christ sent me not to water baptize".

So, that does not sound like Peter in Acts 2, does it,.... and that is because Paul has the revelation that is the Gospel of the Grace of God, that Peter did not have yet.
Paul's Gospel is "justification by faith" and John also teaches this as John 3:16.
Peter got this revelation, to begin with, in Acts 10, and then Paul gave him the rest in Acts 15.

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Paul, at one time, helped murder Christians.
That is why he defined himself, not as committing sin, but as being the "chief of sinners".
How much worse can you be then to be a murder of Christians?
That a CHIEF of sinners.

So, He ONCE found in that group in your verse. A Christ rejecting, Christ hating, person who was helping to round up believers to be burned and stoned.

That group, is not born again, as all the born again are "made righteous".
The born again are already IN the KOG, and it is in them.
They are not waiting to inherit it, as they are already become a part of it.

"seated in heavenly places , in Christ".

"as Jesus is, so are the born again in this world".

In the verse right before that he just said

“But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So Paul is not talking about “Christ hating sinners” he is talking about the people he is writing to, the Saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ.

“See that” they’re not Christ haters, they’re faithful to Christ. They are “sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption” and yet Paul tells them not to grieve the Holy Spirit by turning back to a sinful way of life. Paul is only referring to one group in this message.

setst777 · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
yes.
that is the great commission.
given to all the Jews that were a part of Jesus's ministry that he was given when He was under the law, and under the old covenant/old testament.

But that was not the end., was it...
IN COMES the NEW COVENANT.
Here come the next REVELATION.
= Paul was chosen.
The "time of the Gentiles' starts, and we see the transition from Acts 2:38, where Peter is all about the water, as that is a Jewish OT situation, ...that is the "John the Baptist" Gospel, that Peter was using along with his preaching of Jesus as Messiah.

Paul said....>>"Christ sent me not to water baptize".

So, that does not sound like Peter in Acts 2, does it,.... and that is because Paul has the revelation that is the Gospel of the Grace of God, that Peter did not have yet.
Paul's Gospel is "justification by faith" and John also teaches this as John 3:16.
Peter got this revelation, to begin with, in Acts 10, and then Paul gave him the rest in Acts 15.

I don't think there is one Christian on earth who would agree with you, that all of Lord Jesus teaching was just for the Jews under the Law, including the Great Commission - except for "GOD Shines Forth!".

How is it that Lord Jesus was teaching the same message to the Gentile Churches in the Book of Revelation?

Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB)
1 I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent.
If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

And we know your teaching is false because all the Apostles taught the same thing.

Acts 26:19-20 (WEB) 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to them of Damascus, at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

Ephesians 5:3-7 (WEB)
3 But sexual immorality, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be mentioned among you, as becomes saints; 4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not appropriate; but rather giving of thanks.
5 Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Judas was one of the 12, but Jesus later defined Him as "a devil".

Now, see it?

So, Paul was called after Jesus ascended.
Jesus called Him personally, for a reason.

See the NT?
That's the reason.

Matthias was elected to replace Judas.

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Judas was one of the 12, but Jesus later defined Him as "a devil".

Now, see it?

So, Paul was called after Jesus ascended.
Jesus called Him personally, for a reason.

See the NT?
That's the reason.

Jesus called each one of the apostles personally.

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Im always clear about this answer..
I always define the Gospel as Paul's.
He teaches it as "my Gospel".
This is the "preaching of the Cross".
Its the teaching that Christ who is God.... came as virgin born, shed his blood, was crucified, died, and rose again for the sin of the world ... John 3:16.... and as God's only Way to heaven.
John 14:6

You just said absolutely nothing about the topic at hand. You called me a liar and I just proved that I wasn’t by quoting you claiming that the word faith in Hebrews 6:1 has a different meaning than the word faith in Colossians 1:23.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
I

So Paul is not talking about “Christ hating sinners” he is talking about the people he is writing to, the Saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ.

Listen carefully..

Paul is talking to the group, about the others he is describing.

That would be like me saying to my group...>"now understand that a dark light is going to try to convince you that you can lose your salvation".
Im not talking about them, im talking to them, about the dark lights.

That is John saying....>>"if we say we have no sin", and he's not talking about himself, he's talking to those he's talking to about that situation.

That is Paul saying......to lost hebrews.....>"if we willfully sin, there remains no more sacrifice for sin".
He's not talking about Himself...>He's talking to THEM who are standing there in front of him, willfully rejecting CHRIST.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

setst777 said:
I don't think there is one Christian on earth who would agree with you,.

Be serious now.

I get lots of "likes" here., from people who understand the CROSS.

My Threads are extremely well read, and there is only the handful that are caught in the net of self saving and self righteousness, who keep yelling about it on my Threads.
This is always the case when im on a new forum giving Jesus all the Credit due Him for Salvation.
See, a legalist takes a painful hit when i dont give their savior = self effort and commandment keeping, the praise they want it to have.....
This makes them angry.

Now to your other issue....

You've not been taught very well, the NT.
That is not your fault, utterly, because you dont yet understand what is not true.
You were taught that if it has a pulpit and its called a Priest, or similar then they are always telling you the truth.
Well, guess what.........
Im the one you finally found who is showing you what you need to believe.

See, here is the thing about truth.

Truth and untruth went swimming
When Truth's back was turned, untruth stole Truth's clothes.
Now, untruth parades about as truth, and TRUTH goes about as the naked Truth.

See that?

Here is what im showing you.
When you find yourself in the endless denominational maze of theology, and in the bottomless confusion pit of "church fathers", and thousands of denominations, and want to know what is RIGHT ..what is TRUE.

Here is how you find that out, setst77.

You go to Paul and stay there, and when you decide to do that, i can help you.

setst777 · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Listen carefully..

Paul is talking to the group, about the others he is describing.

That would be like me saying to my group...>"now understand that a dark light is going to try to convince you that you can lose your salvation".
Im not talking about them, im talking to them, about the dark lights.

That is John saying....>>"if we say we have no sin", and he's not talking about himself, he's talking to those he's talking to about that situation.

That is Paul saying......to lost hebrews.....>"if we willfully sin, there remains no more sacrifice for sin".
He's not talking about Himself...>He's talking to THEM who are standing there in front of him, willfully rejecting CHRIST.

Oh so Paul is not talking to Christians in Hebrews 10:26-31. Really???

Let us review that Scripture, then you tell me if they were still lost.

Hebrews 10:26-32 (WEB) 26 For if WE sin willfully after WE have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which will devour the adversaries. 28 A man who disregards Moses’ law dies without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think he will be judged worthy of who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance belongs to me. I will repay,” says the Lord. [Deuteronomy 32:35] Again, “The Lord will judge HIS people.” [Deuteronomy 32:36; Psalm 135:14] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Paul is warning, admonishing, and teaching the Christians, in the Letter to the Hebrews, that they can absolutely lose their salvation if they continue living in sin.

Notice, Paul includes WE, which means the letter is for Christians.

Notice, that “The Lord will judge HIS people.” Showing that even Christians can fall from grace and be judged unworthy of salvation, and will suffer WORSE punishment then a heathen.

setst777 · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Be serious now.

I get lots of "likes" here., from people who understand the CROSS.

My Threads are extremely well read, and there is only the handful that are caught in the net of self saving and self righteousness, who keep yelling about it on my Threads.
This is always the case when im on a new forum giving Jesus all the Credit due Him for Salvation.
See, a legalist takes a painful hit when i dont give their savior = self effort and commandment keeping, the praise they want it to have.....
This makes them angry.

Now to your other issue....

You've not been taught very well, the NT.
That is not your fault, utterly, because you dont yet understand what is not true.
You were taught that if it has a pulpit and its called a Priest, or similar then they are always telling you the truth.
Well, guess what.........
Im the one you finally found who is showing you what you need to believe.

See, here is the thing about truth.

Truth and untruth went swimming
When Truth's back was turned, untruth stole Truth's clothes.
Now, untruth parades about as truth, and TRUTH goes about as the naked Truth.

See that?

Here is what im showing you.
When you find yourself in the endless denominational maze of theology, and in the bottomless confusion pit of "church fathers", and thousands of denominations, and want to know what is RIGHT ..what is TRUE.

Here is how you find that out, setst77.

You go to Paul and stay there, and when you decide to do that, i can help you.

You got likes from people that did not know you taught that the Four Gospels, and all its teaching, was written only for the Jews under the Law. That is heretical.

As going to Paul... You ignore and reinterpret anything by Paul that disagrees with you.

I went to Paul and found out that I can lose my salvation if I do not remain faithful demonstrated in living a sanctified/holy life before God.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-9 (WEB) 3 For this is the will of God: your sanctification, that you abstain from sexual immorality, 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in sanctification and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who don’t know God, 6 that no one should take advantage of and wrong a brother or sister in this matter; because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as also we forewarned you and testified. 7 For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification. 8 Therefore he who rejects this doesn’t reject man, but God, who has also given his Holy Spirit to you.

Acts 26:19-20 (WEB) 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to them of Damascus, at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

Ephesians 5:3-7 (WEB)
3 But sexual immorality, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be mentioned among you, as becomes saints; 4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not appropriate; but rather giving of thanks.
5 Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Listen carefully..

Paul is talking to the group, about the others he is describing.

That would be like me saying to my group...>"now understand that a dark light is going to try to convince you that you can lose your salvation".
Im not talking about them, im talking to them, about the dark lights.

That is John saying....>>"if we say we have no sin", and he's not talking about himself, he's talking to those he's talking to about that situation.

That is Paul saying......to lost hebrews.....>"if we willfully sin, there remains no more sacrifice for sin".
He's not talking about Himself...>He's talking to THEM who are standing there in front of him, willfully rejecting CHRIST.

Do you understand the definition of the word “you”? I even highlighted it in bold letters for you in my last quote.

“But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Nobody uses the word “you” when they are referring to someone else.

Salvation vs : service.

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