Vaccine hesitancy, and how to reach hesitant groups...

Bradskii said:

Maybe you've heard of this system that was invented to prevent governments doing what they will with the nations citizens. It's called democracy. It's not perfect. But a shame you don't use it.

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It's called democracy? It's not perfect?

What incredible excuses you propose for humans that claim to have your best interest at heart. As I said, I am not arguing your sovereign right to trust other humans over your own discernment or intellect.

Taisho said:

It's called democracy? It's not perfect?

What incredible excuses you propose for humans that claim to have your best interest at heart. As I said, I am not arguing your sovereign right to trust other humans over your own discernment or intellect.

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That's not an excuse for what governments might or might not do. It's a means to remove the government if the majority of the population feel that it doesn't have their best interests at heart.

And my expertise is is in Building Services. So I have to trust that the pilots, bridge builders, doctors etc are doing what they are supposed to be doing and doing it well. I'm not inclined to learn how to fly or do an engineering degree or a medical degree to trust them.

My guess is that last time you flew, drove over a bridge or had an injection you had to 'trust other humans over your own discernment or intellect'. Or maybe you live in the woods and are totally self sufficient.

Bradskii said:

That's not an excuse for what governments might or might not do. It's a means to remove the government if the majority of the population feel that it doesn't have their best interests at heart.

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When, in the entirety of history, have the people had the intelligence and wherewithal to know what is best for them?

We have, for many centuries, abdicated our sense to government and admonished anyone who protests. All it takes is to observe history - while we have the luxury - to know governments do not have the citizen's best interest at heart. It has always been about gain at the expense of others; citizens are just comfortable with the creature comforts they exchange for their sense, discernment, trust and intellect.

And my expertise is is in Building Services. So I have to trust that the pilots, bridge builders, doctors etc are doing what they are supposed to be doing and doing it well. I'm not inclined to learn how to fly or do an engineering degree or a medical degree to trust them.

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GOOD. As I said, I am not arguing your sovereignty as a human to trust other humans over your own intellect and discernment. You have made a choice, which is your right.

My guess is that last time you flew, drove over a bridge or had an injection you had to 'trust other humans over your own discernment or intellect'. Or maybe you live in the woods and are totally self sufficient.

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It's good you said it is your guess.

Taisho said:

It's good you said it is your guess.

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So you've never flown, driven over a bridge or had a medical procedure? How do you get to the south side of Chicago? Never driven over Des Plaines river?

Bradskii said:

So you've never flown, driven over a bridge or had a medical procedure? How do you get to the south side of Chicago? Never driven over Des Plaines river?

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Did I say that?

I said I am glad you said, "I guess..." meaning you are not stating fact about what you think I have done, but rather you are speculating (which is your right).

Bradskii, I am not arguing your choice to abdicate your sense and intellect to other humans who die just like you.

Taisho said:

Did I say that?

I said I am glad you said, "I guess..." meaning you are not stating fact about what you think I have done, but rather you are speculating (which is your right).

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So you trusted professionals. Who work for companies who do their best to make a profit.

I thought you argued against that. My bad.

Bradskii said:

So you trusted professionals. Who work for companies who do their best to make a profit.

I thought you argued against that. My bad.

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Did I say I trusted professionals?

You are free to abdicate your sense, discernment and understanding to other humans - I am not arguing that for anyone. That is human right to abdicate one's own mind for someone else's alleged expertise.

sandman said:

The more the push the more resistant I become ….I don't know if the resistant ones feel the same but ......I am #1

You want me to trust a government that is telling me it’s safe …when those same people were willing to kill people and (probably many people) because they resisted the truth that hydroxychloroquine was extremely effective…all because of their hatred for Trump.

I don’t care what other people do or think …People want to get the vax that is fine… if they don’t that’s fine

Maybe in a year of two if it is proven to be safe, I will …maybe not. But with social and regular media smothering the side effects and deaths related to this …no thanks it all seems nefarious to me.

I have zero confidence in government, media, and those political puppets who speak for science…..and in turn are responsible for the development of this virus.

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The rejection of hydroxychloroquine wasn't because people hated Trump, but because it's an ineffective and unsafe drug. HCQ has a string of serious side effects.

Taisho said:

Did I say I trusted professionals?

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The professionals who built the bridge. The one who performed your last medical procedure. The guy who flew the plane you were in.

Are you saying you didn't trust any of them?

Bradskii said:

The professionals who built the bridge. The one who performed your last medical procedure. The guy who flew the plane you were in.

Are you saying you didn't trust any of them?

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Of course not. I don't trust any human. I have never been to a hospital besides when I was born, I have never had a medical procedure, and I would die before I ever went to a hospital or took a vaccine - I have no problem with it.

Not everyone has my same mindset and that is perfectly fine. I am perfectly within my right as a sovereign human to seem and be "crazy" by layperson standards.

Taisho said:

Of course not. I don't trust any human. I have never been to a hospital besides when I was born, I have never had a medical procedure, and I would die before I ever went to a hospital...

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Quite possibly.

'No sir, just leave me in the wreck to die in my own time. I don't trust them 'doctors'. And anyway, you have to drive over a bridge to get there!'

So you've never flown in a plane? Or driven over bridge? Or used a lift? Or been in a boat? You do live a sheltered life!

Bradskii said:

Are all governments and all medical organisations in every country on the planet involved in this 'cultish behaviour'? 'Cos, honestly, it comes across a tad like paranoia to me.

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"Paranoia?" For not taking the vaccine? How deliciously ironic.


But paranoid about government, or governments, let alone ALL governments? Pfft, who in their right mind would ever be paranoid about that?

Crwth said:

But paranoid about government, or governments, let alone ALL governments? Pfft, who in their right mind would ever be paranoid about that?

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You're omitting the point that was being made. That ALL governments, be they right wing, left wing, centre right, centre left, Western, Asian, Far Eastern, Middle Eastern etc and ALL medical experts and ALL experts in the field of immunology, indeed anyone with some expertise in this matter are ALL in this together, working to make sure that...what exactly?

What's the common cause that has united all these people across vast differences in outlook, politics, way of life and belief systems to ensure that you should get vaccinated?

This has to be the globalist of all global conspiracies. You have included all countries and all governments in some sort of plan to make sure that you get a covid jab.

Paranoid? There isn't a word to describe the degree of paranoia that you're exhibiting. There's no scale capable of measuring it.

sandman said:

The more the push the more resistant I become ….I don't know if the resistant ones feel the same but ......I am #1

You want me to trust a government that is telling me it’s safe …when those same people were willing to kill people and (probably many people) because they resisted the truth that hydroxychloroquine was extremely effective…all because of their hatred for Trump.

I don’t care what other people do or think …People want to get the vax that is fine… if they don’t that’s fine

Maybe in a year of two if it is proven to be safe, I will …maybe not. But with social and regular media smothering the side effects and deaths related to this …no thanks it all seems nefarious to me.

I have zero confidence in government, media, and those political puppets who speak for science…..and in turn are responsible for the development of this virus.

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Do you have a doctor you trust? Instead of relying on politicians, the media and tv personalities, have you asked an actual doctor about the vaccine?

Bradskii said:

You're omitting the point that was being made. That ALL governments, be they right wing, left wing, centre right, centre left, Western, Asian, Far Eastern, Middle Eastern etc and ALL medical experts and ALL experts in the field of immunology, indeed anyone with some expertise in this matter are ALL in this together, working to make sure that...what exactly?

What's the common cause that has united all these people across vast differences in outlook, politics, way of life and belief systems to ensure that you should get vaccinated?

This has to be the globalist of all global conspiracies. You have included all countries and all governments in some sort of plan to make sure that you get a covid jab.

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Did I call it a conspiracy? Did I? No, you did.

I'm omitting nothing. But what I'm seeing here is one massive assumption regarding something I NEVER SAID.

I presume you took the vaccine - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. And if you did, I presume you did it for measured, well thought out reasons. And I might make some assumptions as to what those reasons were - in part probably out of self preservation - for you, family, friends, etc., not wanting to contract the virus, and in part probably a little bit of altruism too, not wanting to harm your fellow man - contribute to the herd immunity and all.

Nothing wrong with any of that.

But, what are the actual RISKs involved here? We've been over all the stats numerous times. In the US, for example, the number of people that have died from Covid is less than 0.2% of the entire population. Some 600k out of 330m (give or take). 1 in 550 people. And the number of people who have contracted the disease is about 6x that, about 35m. Call it 10%. So the risk of dying IF you catch the virus is less than 2%.

Reverse those stats now. Nearly 90% of the American population hasn't even contracted the virus. And roughly 99.8% have not died from it.

Paranoid? Seriously, given those stats, who is the more likely to be paranoid here?

Bradskii said:

Paranoid? There isn't a word to describe the degree of paranoia that you're exhibiting. There's no scale capable of measuring it.

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Unlike the scale used to measure, oh-I-don't-know... whether a comment is defammatory or not?

Crwth said:

Did I call it a conspiracy? Did I? No, you did.

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Yep.

So what you have here is some people are more concerned about the virus than they are about the vaccines. And some are more concerned about the vaccines then they are the virus.

Keep in mind it doesn't mean those more concerned about the vaccines that doesn't mean they don't believe the virus exists. They believe and think it's more safe to risk getting covid especially when they believe they have a 95-99 % chance of survival anyway...if they get it.

Things I wonder about. Do people that are for the vaccines appreciate that many not willing to take one they may be just absolutely terrified or traumatized to do so and maybe the stress of taking one might just be more than they can bear? Not founded on good science? Maybe, maybe not but that's not the issue. The reality may be they feel they just can't. Does that make them bad, evil people ones who are to be hated and despised?

If someone was suffering and any number of phobias, like the fear of flying, fear of heights, or their claustrophobia and the list can go on and on.....do you believe culture, government and powers which be should force them into those things regardless? Make them out to be bad, evil people not worthy of any respect? Just bringing this up for this seems to me the way of thinking of some. Those hesitant are just not good people. Are there others things to consider?

Bradskii said:

Yep.

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LOL. Nope. Never did. You're certainly free to point out where you think I did though.

I *did* say that the push to vaccinate resembled numerous cultic pressures (I was in a cult once) and that that was making me very uncomfortable. But I never called it that, nor did I call it a conspiracy - which seems another delicious irony here... but I digress.