Florida continues to kill it!

GOD Shines Forth! said:

There is potentially much more at stake than cruise ships in all this. Desantis, being in the conservative cause, is attempting to throw a wrench in the left's plans to consolidate power over everyone via "vaccine passports". I side with him totally, as the language of the left has become coercive and anti-freedom.

They are now working with the globalists to subvert our Founders' warnings against centralized power. They play around the letter, then violate the spirit, of their writings. (IMO, of course.)

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As the federal government is in charge of this covid vaccine program it is basically a step to having a federal ID and denying people services and such without a Federal ID which in effect trumps state issued ID cards as the next step it to require a federal Gun ID and make it convenient to "attach" the info in your vaccine ID card and ironically make it a form of ID to vote with and because of "safety" a regular ID won't be accepted at voting stations also.
The old saying give them an inch applies as much of what we are "stuck" with today is based upon a slow creep of things that are like an insect bite that swells up not treated into an infection that has now people needing to amputate limbs to save their lives. This is an attempt to make a national federal ID to usurp state IDs and states rights disguised as caring. If one considers the "mark of the beast" in the Bible you cannot buy/sell/etc without this ID you are essentially BANNED from doing business without the ID..... sounds familiar doesn't it? I'm not saying it is the mark but acceptance of such things is akin to slowly boiling a frog.

Kentonio said:

I have no problem whatsoever with people refusing the vaccine, but don't expect everyone else to risk their lives and their families lives because of your irrational choices. If you refuse a vaccine and give Covid to someone else you should be charged with assault or murder depending on the outcome.

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Firstly, getting the vaccine doesn't prevent you from giving Covid to someone else.

Additionally:

If the person the unvaccinated person "gave Covid to" was vaccinated, that would show that the vaccine didn't work.

If the person the unvaccinated person "gave Covid to" was unvaccinated, that would be a person who decided the risk of Covid wasn't worth getting the vaccine.

Your argument for charging someone with assault or murder would only apply if they intentionally sneezed or coughed on another person.

If an average cruise ship holds 3000 people and less than 0.2% people on it die from C19 that is 6 people. But IF.... IF the vaccine is effective as it is said to be and if what I say is true that cases were dropping greatly before C19 vaccines started to kick in on the statistics then that number could be 1-2 people.. or none at all.
Now people die on cruise ships all the time, some estimates put it at 3-4 people a week from all sorts of causes so a death or two from C19 likely isn't going to change the statistics enough to warrant things and if they are to follow distancing guidelines perhaps which could reduce the amount of people aboard to maybe half that much then the numbers could drop to nearly none for C19, likely as many or more for heart attacks or strokes or whatever.

whatbogsends said:

Firstly, getting the vaccine doesn't prevent you from giving Covid to someone else.

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That's true. I got the Moderna so I still have approx. a 5% chance of the vaccination not protecting me from contracting the virus.
All the more reason to take a cruise with other people who have approx. the same slim chance and on a cruise with a company that has prepared for any outcomes such as Regent's Sail Safe plan.
Sail Safe Health and Safety Program | Safe Cruises with Regent Seven Seas Cruises

Sophrosyne said:

Mitigate a 0.2% chance of death...... not that huge of a risk to go to all the trouble to alienate a lot of people who aren't vaccinated and don't intend to be any time soon.

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As I've said before, you'd think the unvaccinated were being asked to donate a kidney with all the commotion they make whining about their rights.

Hank77 said:

That's never been the case.
A store owner can say they don't want you in their store and you can't go there, they can trespass you.
If a cruise company doesn't want unvaccinated people on their property that's their right.

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Most businesses (so far as I know) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish for any reason they wish other than an immutable trait (protected class).

Fantine said:

You don't make money by exposing yourself to liability.

You don't make money if people refuse to take cruises unless they know everyone is vaccinated.

You don't make money if an outbreak occurs and destroys your cruise line's reputation.

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Not to mention being stuck, fully loaded, offshore for weeks on end because your cruise ship became a petri dish on a warmer.

How many passengers lost their jobs during those escapades last year? We are supposed to be able to learn from history, not just keep repeating ad nauseum.

cruise ships stuck at sea due to covid 19 - Google Search

TLK Valentine said:

Wow... you actually believe this... why?

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Why would I write something I don't believe? Why do I need to defend it?

Fantine said:

As I've said before, you'd think the unvaccinated were being asked to donate a kidney with all the commotion they make whining about their rights.

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Let's face it, for the most part Covid 19 is on the way out as most of those at risk from it have either already had it or vaccinated and that may reduce their chance of death down to what the average chance is or lower.
I think that demanding compliance that isn't required by professional health experts on a state and federal level on a cruise ship is overreach and discrimination based upon faulty medical data. In other words a business wants not allow people who aren't vaccinated based upon an unrealistic threat of Covid 19. We could have businesses that ask you to prove you don't have HIV or AIDS before allowing you to socialize for fear of death by the disease as if they had it and had contact with one person on a week cruise or was having contact with someone different every night and didn't know they were HIV positive they could possibly kill everyone of them thuse HIV tests required.
If someone were to go to a store with HIV and accidentally cut themselves and bled on a customer they could give them the disease and they could die from it. Now the chances of it happening are real but miniscule. Logically speaking where do you draw the line on "safety" Do people on cruise ships have to wear safety harnesses on deck to prevent them from falling overboard? Do we require proof of mental ability before we allow someone to drive their car on the highway? This type of "banning" can lead to ANY idea of a threat of death or even harm to have everyone prove they aren't this or that before they can compete.
If the chance of death of Covid was even 1% on a cruise now maybe I would be concerned but about 0.185% calculated which is a result of adding in a lot of older more prone to death from Covid into the numbers of deaths which IMO inflates the rates compared to average healthy people now that most of those at risk are vaccinated we may be looking at 0.05% chance of death from Covid so because of FEAR lets force people who really don't need the vaccine to get it, lest harass them with text messages, ads on TV, peer pressure and online to get vaccinated so we can save a few more people while some are actually dying from a vaccine most don't really need now.

GOD Shines Forth! said:

Why would I write something I don't believe? Why do I need to defend it?

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I'm curious why you believe it.

Fantine said:

As I've said before, you'd think the unvaccinated were being asked to donate a kidney with all the commotion they make whining about their rights.

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It's sad, isn't it?

GOD Shines Forth! said:

There is potentially much more at stake than cruise ships in all this. Desantis, being in the conservative cause, is attempting to throw a wrench in the left's plans to consolidate power over everyone via "vaccine passports". I side with him totally, as the language of the left has become coercive and anti-freedom.

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Is the CEO of Norwegian Cruise Lines the "Left"?
He is on record as stating that this policy is, in his opinion, in the best interest of his business.
Or is he a part of this grand scheme to "consolidate power over everyone via "vaccine passports"?

whatbogsends said:

Firstly, getting the vaccine doesn't prevent you from giving Covid to someone else.

Additionally:

If the person the unvaccinated person "gave Covid to" was vaccinated, that would show that the vaccine didn't work.

If the person the unvaccinated person "gave Covid to" was unvaccinated, that would be a person who decided the risk of Covid wasn't worth getting the vaccine.

Your argument for charging someone with assault or murder would only apply if they intentionally sneezed or coughed on another person.

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The vaccines have never been advertised as perfect. The small percentage of people who still get Covid do not mean that the vaccines don't work.

They tend to work for good when a certain percentage of the population gets them (70-80%) so that the disease burns itself out looking for hosts.

Anti vax folks are making sure that doesn't happen.

So, we have a solution, that will not work as well as it could because some of us don't want it to.

Please stop spreading the stupid.

Isilwen said:

It's sad, isn't it?

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Very. It just goes to show you how much people will complain when asked to do anything.

Mayzoo said:

Most businesses (so far as I know) have the right to refuse service to anyone they wish for any reason they wish other than an immutable trait (protected class).

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Yes, it's weird that we're trying to make "refuses to take vaccine in the middle of a pandemic" as a protected class.

Sophrosyne said:

Let's face it, for the most part Covid 19 is on the way out as most of those at risk from it have either already had it or vaccinated and that may reduce their chance of death down to what the average chance is or lower.
I think that demanding compliance that isn't required by professional health experts on a state and federal level on a cruise ship is overreach and discrimination based upon faulty medical data. In other words a business wants not allow people who aren't vaccinated based upon an unrealistic threat of Covid 19. We could have businesses that ask you to prove you don't have HIV or AIDS before allowing you to socialize for fear of death by the disease as if they had it and had contact with one person on a week cruise or was having contact with someone different every night and didn't know they were HIV positive they could possibly kill everyone of them thuse HIV tests required.
If someone were to go to a store with HIV and accidentally cut themselves and bled on a customer they could give them the disease and they could die from it. Now the chances of it happening are real but miniscule. Logically speaking where do you draw the line on "safety" Do people on cruise ships have to wear safety harnesses on deck to prevent them from falling overboard? Do we require proof of mental ability before we allow someone to drive their car on the highway? This type of "banning" can lead to ANY idea of a threat of death or even harm to have everyone prove they aren't this or that before they can compete.
If the chance of death of Covid was even 1% on a cruise now maybe I would be concerned but about 0.185% calculated which is a result of adding in a lot of older more prone to death from Covid into the numbers of deaths which IMO inflates the rates compared to average healthy people now that most of those at risk are vaccinated we may be looking at 0.05% chance of death from Covid so because of FEAR lets force people who really don't need the vaccine to get it, lest harass them with text messages, ads on TV, peer pressure and online to get vaccinated so we can save a few more people while some are actually dying from a vaccine most don't really need now.

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Cruise ships are tiny crowded environments filled with and depending on the patronage of older people.

What Florida is doing is saying that they can't make those people feel safer by refusing service to the unvaccinated people who might sneeze in their food.

wing2000 said:

Is the CEO of Norwegian Cruise Lines the "Left"?
He is on record as stating that this policy is, in his opinion, in the best interest of his business.
Or is he a part of this grand scheme to "consolidate power over everyone via "vaccine passports"?

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I thought my paragraph was clear. It went beyond the cruise lines to an underlying issue that conservatives (Desantis et. al) are, I believe, rightly concerned about.

Sophrosyne said:

If it is non existent then investigating it shouldn't be a problem...

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It isn't a problem, it has been investigated when it happens, which is rare :

North Carolina GOP Operative Faces New Felony Charges That Allege Ballot Fraud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/05/04/pennsylvania-bruce-bartman-voter-fraud/

and so on.

Now, want to get back to the actual subject of the thread?

Sophrosyne said:

A agree as Covid restrictions are shaming people with the notion they don't care to submit to them.

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People treating public health initiatives designed to combat a global pandemic as something they can simply choose to ignore on a whim without consequences don't need others to bring shame to them.

Sophrosyne said:

Now people die on cruise ships all the time

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The important thing to remember is that the GOP is the pro-life party.