Joe Biden proposals for banning some firearms, high capacity magazines, immunity changes
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stevil
Godless and without morals
The article, the studies do consider this.
They take note of the overall percentage of women murdered out of the group that have a gun at home and the overall percentage of woman murdered out of the group that don't have a gun at home.
Overall, the women with a gun at home are more likely to be murdered.
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I saw a very relevant meme yesterday that went something like this.
Whenever there is a school shooting, gun owners worry about having their guns taken--while parents worry about their children's lives being taken.
But since these school shootings occurred, not a single gun has been taken away from gun owners--but over 3000 children's lives have been taken from parents.
Whenever there is a school shooting, gun owners worry about having their guns taken--while parents worry about their children's lives being taken.
But since these school shootings occurred, not a single gun has been taken away from gun owners--but over 3000 children's lives have been taken from parents.
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stevil
Godless and without morals
I've gone back over my post of references that you were responding to here.
Probably the most direct statement was
"- having a gun in the home increased the overall risk of someone in the household being murdered by 41 per cent; but for women in particular the risk was nearly tripled (an increase of 272 per cent)."
So here it was linking the presence of a gun at home to the overall murder rate.
This dispels the idea that a murderer will just use an alternative weapon and hence having a gun makes no difference.
The two things that I'm not sure about with these statistics that show a very large and significant increase in homicide rates for women when a gun is present at the home is:
1. Causality - Is it because the woman is in an abusive relationship that she gets the gun? So she is already at higher risk (whether she has the gun or not)
2. How many times is it that the attacker uses her gun against her. - The stats might be a bit blurred by the man having his own gun in her house.
In terms of item 1. I'm pretty sure there are studies that show out of women in abusive relationships - those that have a gun at home are more likely to be murdered. But I don't have time right now to look up references for this.
Item 2 would be interesting to delve further into. I can't recall ever seeing this detail.
You might be able to mitigate this by having fancy lockers which only allow her to have access to her gun.
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- Aug 11, 2017
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Which post was that? Because I remember that statement and if I’m not mistaken that’s when I asked for your source and you provided the link pertaining to intimate violence relationships. I don’t recall seeing a link that supported that statement which is why I quoted that statement.
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- Aug 11, 2017
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I think it’s interesting how some people, not accusing you, but some people try to put all these restrictions and stipulations into their statistics in order to create something that appears to indicate that guns don’t actually save lives when almost every single police officer carries a gun everyday saving lives. That’s why I don’t pay too much attention to statistics because they’re so often catered to support a specific agenda and they often omit circumstances in their study that would jeopardize that agenda. They don’t want to look at the overall picture because they would lose. So I honestly couldn’t care less about what these statistics say. I know that my family is safer with a gun in the house than without because only my wife and I can access it and I’ve never hit a woman in my life. So I don’t care what other people may have experienced because it doesn’t pertain to me. I could easily do a study on what color cars have been in the most car accidents and make a statistic saying your more likely to get into a car accident if you have this colored car because statistics show that this color car has more accidents than any other color when no matter what there will always be one colored car that has more accidents than the others because they’re not all going to have the same number of accidents per color. There will always be one color that has more accidents than the rest. Doesn’t mean that this particular color had anything to do with it.
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stevil
Godless and without morals
Which is why I brought this very point up in a previous post to you.
If you don't get angry and don't lash out then your wife is probably fine having the gun at home.
Probably won't save her life, but probably won't be used against her either. So all is good.
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- Aug 11, 2017
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I pray that it doesn’t save our life and that we never need it. Man I’m a husband and a father and my family is depending on me to protect them. I don’t want to let them down. If a threat was to present itself and I had plenty of time to get a gun but I didn’t have one I’d feel like a complete moron for not being prepared. On the other hand if a threat did present itself and I got my gun and was killed defending my family I’d be fine with that because I did everything I could. I don’t think I could live with the agony of losing a loved one because I didn’t do everything in my power to keep them safe. I’d never overcome that guilt. There’s no second chances in that situation.
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stevil
Godless and without morals
There are lots of ifs and buts. Difficult choices to be made for sure.
If you got a gun and the kids got to it and accidently shot each other, if one of your kids got depressed and shot themselves with it, if a boyfriend of your daughter got angry at her and shot her with your gun, if your wife was confronted by a burgler and pulled a gun but the burgler took it off her and shot her...
It can work both ways.
Stats bear out that women are killed by familiars, by husbands and boyfriends. They are unlikley to be murdered, but even more unlikely to save themselves with a gun.
But of course those are overall stats. You might be able to improve the odds in your favour if:
You don't get angry and lash out on your wife
Your wife hasn't had past boyfriends that are still hanging out for her
Your wife doesn't have affairs
Your lockup the gun so that only specific people can get to it
Anyway, you are the best person to judge if your family is safer or not with the gun.
I am a man, a husband, a father. I don't live in a country where guns are used for self protection. I recognise that my family is safer in my country than they would be in countries where guns are used for self protection. My wife and myself, we educate our children about dangers, teach them to be safe on the internet and not give away their identities, teach them to be very careful of being alone with males especially familiar males (as most rapes etc are done by familiars). Teach them not to walk alone at night, teach them that drinking makes them vulnerable and prone to poor decision making. Above all else, teach them to think, to think about dangers and to think about what they can do to make themselves more safe.
I have never and will never advise them to carry weapons.
But that is my choice. I hope neither you nor I come into any situation where we or our families are in this kind of danger.
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You attest you are a "good guy with a gun" and I will take your word for it. But the official position of the NRA is that everyone is...until he's caught. Including alcoholics, the clinically depressed or mentally ill, people with PTSD, anger management problems, misogynist, sociopaths--all good until they're caught. People of color don't seem to be confident about that blanket immunity, and I think they are very wise.
That is why the red flag law is so important. The people who know gun owners best will see the warnings first.
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- Nov 15, 2006
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I searched this quote and found it on CBS news, which also stated:
The authors of the survey also found with a lesser degree of certainty that people with guns in their home are more likely to be the victims of a homicide.
“Bringing a gun into the home substantially increases the risk for suicide for all family members and the risk for women being murdered in the home,” Hemenway wrote. “Evidence not included in their review also indicates that a gun in the home increases the risk for homicide victimization for others in society. This increased risk may be due to someone in the family shooting others (for example, the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting) or the gun being stolen and used by criminals.
“Bringing a gun into the home substantially increases the risk for suicide for all family members and the risk for women being murdered in the home,” Hemenway wrote. “Evidence not included in their review also indicates that a gun in the home increases the risk for homicide victimization for others in society. This increased risk may be due to someone in the family shooting others (for example, the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting) or the gun being stolen and used by criminals.
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To be "caught" implies that the person was doing something wrong in the first place.
A good guy with a gun is someone who doesn't have a gun to do wrong with. If he's carrying for self defense, and comes across someone using a gun to commit a robbery and manages to hold the robber at gunpoint until police arrive, then a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy.
And those who are anti-gun then have a way to use the police to impose their own opinions on those they don't agree with.
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That's nice.
Do you disagree that having a standing professional army makes a militia obsolete?
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What I am saying is that NRA supporters believe there should be a "presumption of goodness" for everyone who owns a gun, even if a mildly perceptive person could see that there are numerous warning signs that might make owning a gun inadvisable.
I always think about a coworker, now deceased. Her son had been in the military and had several physical and emotional scars. Before his discharge he told her he wanted to study to be a nurse, like her, but when he actually got home he decided to become a police officer "because he liked guns too much." Now, as a mildly perceptive person, I realize that the very last person who should become a police officer is someone who "likes guns too much," and that our society has seen too many police officers who used guns inappropriately and too quickly. After he became a police officer he wanted to join a SWAT team.
That's just one person who should have a whole lot of therapy before getting a gun.
Every single person in U.S. history who committed gun violence against others and suicide, barring prior felons, is described by the NRA as a "good guy with a gun," until he commits the violent act. Most mass shooters have no criminal records, and the NRA would defend their rights to own a gun until they fired their very first shots.
There has to be a better screening methods than "Oops." Not everyone is a good guy with a gun. Maybe they are "emotionally scarred" guys with guns. "Crying for help" guys with guns. "Addicts" with guns. "Alcoholics" with guns. "Abusers" with guns. And more.
A minister told me her adopted parents never go anywhere without carrying two guns each. So yes, there are "scared" guys with guns, and sometimes "paranoid" guys with guns. All her faith can't heal their frightened hearts, but they are people who need healing, not weapons.
Does that mean that no one should own guns? No, although for the life of me I can't understand why they would want to and think that they would be happier and more emotionally free without one.
My church keeps every other pew empty, and during the "Our Father" last week I was horrified to see what appeared to be a gun handle hanging out of a former altar server's pocket. It completely disrupted my prayers as I stood, fixated and horrified, unable to keep my eyes off his pocket. While I didn't know anything specific about him that would cause me to think he wasn't a "good" guy, I wondered why he brought it into God's house.
And yes, I will be watchful and wary whenever I am in contact with him in the future.
I always think about a coworker, now deceased. Her son had been in the military and had several physical and emotional scars. Before his discharge he told her he wanted to study to be a nurse, like her, but when he actually got home he decided to become a police officer "because he liked guns too much." Now, as a mildly perceptive person, I realize that the very last person who should become a police officer is someone who "likes guns too much," and that our society has seen too many police officers who used guns inappropriately and too quickly. After he became a police officer he wanted to join a SWAT team.
That's just one person who should have a whole lot of therapy before getting a gun.
Every single person in U.S. history who committed gun violence against others and suicide, barring prior felons, is described by the NRA as a "good guy with a gun," until he commits the violent act. Most mass shooters have no criminal records, and the NRA would defend their rights to own a gun until they fired their very first shots.
There has to be a better screening methods than "Oops." Not everyone is a good guy with a gun. Maybe they are "emotionally scarred" guys with guns. "Crying for help" guys with guns. "Addicts" with guns. "Alcoholics" with guns. "Abusers" with guns. And more.
A minister told me her adopted parents never go anywhere without carrying two guns each. So yes, there are "scared" guys with guns, and sometimes "paranoid" guys with guns. All her faith can't heal their frightened hearts, but they are people who need healing, not weapons.
Does that mean that no one should own guns? No, although for the life of me I can't understand why they would want to and think that they would be happier and more emotionally free without one.
My church keeps every other pew empty, and during the "Our Father" last week I was horrified to see what appeared to be a gun handle hanging out of a former altar server's pocket. It completely disrupted my prayers as I stood, fixated and horrified, unable to keep my eyes off his pocket. While I didn't know anything specific about him that would cause me to think he wasn't a "good" guy, I wondered why he brought it into God's house.
And yes, I will be watchful and wary whenever I am in contact with him in the future.
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There have been church shootings where people walk in and start firing. There was one in Texas where a guy with a shotgun opened fire on the congregation. Fortunately, there were at least 2 parishioners who had a gun of their own and stopped the bad guy. If they hadn't been armed, more people would have died. So, this is a case where good guys with guns stopped a bad guy with a gun--in a church. Here's a news story about it.
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