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Joe Biden proposals for banning some firearms, high capacity magazines, immunity changes

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by tall73, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Statement by the President Three Years After the Parkland Shooting | The White House

    This Administration will not wait for the next mass shooting to heed that call. We will take action to end our epidemic of gun violence and make our schools and communities safer. Today, I am calling on Congress to enact commonsense gun law reforms, including requiring background checks on all gun sales, banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, and eliminating immunity for gun manufacturers who knowingly put weapons of war on our streets. We owe it to all those we’ve lost and to all those left behind to grieve to make a change. The time to act is now.


     
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  2. Arcangl86

    Arcangl86 Newbie

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    Yeah, I doubt he will get anything but the universal background checks, which are broadly popular among the general public.
     
  3. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    While I appreciate his desire to limit mass shootings, I am not sure banning high-capacity magazines will do that. And I have come to the opinion that there is no good definition of an assault rifle.

    But the rest of it is a good start.
     
  4. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    These seem primarily aimed at mass shooting reduction.

    Some states already require private sales to go through a firearms dealer for private sales. I don't think this will impose too much of a burden on legal gun owners, and may give some peace of mind that the person buying the weapon does not have a history of firearm violence, etc.

    Rifles are used in relatively few shootings, and even a number of mass shootings have used handguns. So I don't know how effective this will be. The reduction in magazine capacity may be more key for that purpose, if only to limit the damage before reloading. I don't think it will necessarily dissuade someone from a shooting altogether.

    The immunity measures I think would be challenged in court.
     
  5. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    lol.

    Much of this already exists. Some of it is terribly difficult to define (assault weapons). And the rest of it is politically impossible.
     
  6. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    The partisan divide is there, but...it's not as much as people think:
    [​IMG]
    Share of Americans who favor stricter gun laws has increased since 2017


    As you can see, both parties have majorities in favor of several key measures.


     
  7. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    2019 Homicide data:
    Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

    Handguns
    6,368
    Rifles 364
    Shotguns 200
    Other guns 45
    Firearms, type not stated 3,281
    Non-firearm homicides 3,669
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  8. Celticroots

    Celticroots Newbie

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    Good. It's about time. Citizens do not need assault rifles.
     
  9. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    I agree the assault weapons designation is difficult to define.

    And we will have to see if the bill grandfathers in existing equipment, similar to the 1994 bill:

    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42957.pdf

    The act contained several exceptions, including a “grandfather clause” allowing for the possession of such items that were otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of enactment.
     
  10. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    The usual definition of assault rifle includes selective fire. That is not available currently on civilian models.

    But as to what people need, that depends. An AR15, as a long gun, is easier to aim intuitively, has less kick than a shotgun or many large bore pistols, and is better at going through body armor. It is capable of quick follow-up shots. For a woman defending her home from a home invasion it may be preferred.

    The drawback is rifle rounds can carry through walls quite a distance. So angles matter. And you don't have the spread effect of some shotgun loads.

    I knew a federal officer who trained his wife to use an AR as they were in an area with high drug gang activity, and at higher risk of possible reprisals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  11. stevil

    stevil Godless and without morals

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    An assault rifle is a rifle that has a switching mechanism so it can be in a semi-automatic mode where you need to press the trigger each time or fully-automatic where you just hold down the trigger for a duration of time and many bullet are fired off.

    Obviously having the automatic mode makes it more dangerous to a crowd than a semi-automatic.
    From a danger/risk perspective it should be in the same category as other automatics, e.g. machine guns.

    Hunters don't need automatics, neither do competitive shooters, and neither do people for self protection. I fail to see the utility of this function in the consumer market.


    high-capacity magazines allow an attacker to keep aiming and shooting without the hassle of taking time to reload. Hunter's don't need lots of bullets at the ready, neither do competitive shooters, and neither do people for self defence. I fail to see the utility of large magazines in the consumer market.
     
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  12. Paulos23

    Paulos23 Never tell me the odds!

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    That is better than the definitions I have seen. Thanks.
     
  13. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    The confusion comes in when you realize that assault rifle and assault weapon are different terms. Assault rifles are those with selective or automatic fire. Full auto has been illegal for some time, with the exception of now aging grandfathered equipment.

    The assault weapons ban was a bill that included civilian weapons that do not include the selective fire option.

    The "assault weapon" designation that the 1994 bill prohibited is usually the one that you see people taking exception to the designation because it seems to be based on appearances more than function.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  14. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My state has this law and I think it's a good idea especially for the owner selling the gun.
    agree
    I don't agree with this one.
     
  15. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    It depends on what the language looks like. However, if you are indicating you think the company liability provision would be good, how do you envision it working?

    Product liability is usually for malfunctions that causes harm.

    Products liability

    Products containing inherent defects that cause harm to a consumer (or someone to whom the product was loaned, given, etc.) of the product would be the subjects of products liability suits.


    In the case of mass shootings, etc. the issue is not product failure or defects, but illegal use of the product.

    What would you hold the companies liable for?
     
  16. stevil

    stevil Godless and without morals

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    "Assault weapons" or "assault styled weapons" aren't actually a gun industry term, they are a political term invented by politicians for the use in gun restriction laws.

    Another often confused thing is the popular AR-15. It looks like an M16 which is used in military combat, but the AR-15 is instead targeted at the consumer market. The M16 is an Assault Rifle and has automatic mode or perhaps a burst mode. The consumer AR-15 is not an assault rifle. (many non gun people assume AR denotes Assault Rifle).
    The call to ban "Assault weapons" includes the AR-15 which is a very popular consumer gun and so gets much push back.
    The AR-15 can be equipped with very large magazines and can have a Bump Stock attached which makes this behave like an automatic.

    Anyway, this is my quick take on this, I think it is a bit more complex, maybe the M16 is a type of AR-15.
     
  17. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Agreed.

    Yes, here is a rundown on the AR-15.

    The AR in “AR-15” rifle stands for ArmaLite rifle, after the company that developed it in the 1950s.

    AR-15-style rifles look like military rifles, such as the M-16, but function like other semi-automatic civilian sporting firearms, firing only one round with each pull of the trigger.


    Since the 19th century, civilian sporting rifles have evolved from their military predecessors. The modern sporting rifle simply follows that tradition.

    These rifles’ accuracy, reliability, ruggedness and versatility serve target shooters and hunters well. They are true all-weather firearms.

    Chamberings include .22, .223 (5.56 x 45mm), 6.8 SPC, .308, .450 Bushmaster and about a dozen others. Upper receivers for pistol calibers such as 9 mm, .40, and .45 are available. There are even .410 shotgun versions.

    These rifles are used for many different types of hunting, from varmint to big game. And they’re used for target shooting in the national matches.


    Modern Sporting Rifle - AR-15 platform-based rifles


    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't like the idea of holding manufacturers liable for the illegal use of their products.
     
  19. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Oh ok, then we agree on that point. That is why I thought it would be challenged.
     
  20. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Baltimore Police Are Recovering More Guns Loaded With High-Capacity Magazines, Despite Ban on Sales

    This in-depth article looks at a ban on high capacity magazines in Baltimore over its first several years. It discusses grandfathering in equipment, the 1994 assault weapons ban, how out of state equipment impacts the area, and more.


    Experts say that laws that include grandfathered provisions can take several years to produce significant declines in the circulation of such guns. That’s because new firearms rarely surface in connection to crimes. The majority of guns that Maryland law enforcement agencies submitted for traces in 2015 were first purchased an average of 12 years ago, according to ATF data.

    [​IMG]

     
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