Universal Resurrection

Timtofly

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Rubbish.

Matt 4
And the news about Him spread throughout Syria; and they brought to Him all who were ill, those suffering with various diseases and severe pain, demon-possessed, people with epilepsy, and people who were paralyzed; and He healed them.

Matt 8
Now when evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.

Matt 12
Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and unable to speak was brought to Jesus, and He healed him so that the man who was unable to speak talked and could see.

Mark 5
And as He was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-possessed was begging Him that he might accompany Him.


Grace of God is sufficient , even for the repentant demon possessed who desire to follow him.
So Jesus gave a demon back their original bodies and let them physically live on earth? We are talking about the demon, not the people possessed who are healed. It was not their spirit that was a demon living in their body. The spirit is a robe of white light.

The Second Death is not until the demon is cast into the lake of fire. Jesus did not even send the demon to the lake of fire in those verses.
 
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Timtofly

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You seem to be getting hung up on semantics. Call it "spiritual", call it "incorruptible", "immortal", whatever you want. The question is, do you think that those who were resurrected when Jesus died, and also Lazarus, do you think these people were resurrected in the body that can enter into heaven? Yes, or no?
It is not semantics, although most use the terms that way. It is physical and spiritual. It is being born of the flesh and the spirit.

No one will be born of the spirit until the Second Coming. That is why it is semantics to many. They want the spirit now. Only the Holy Spirit is given now. We have no access or control of our spirit until the Second Coming. Most do not want to hear that. Guess what? Those before the cross did not have an incorruptible body, but a soul in Abraham's bosom. Those born before Christ were not even allowed in Paradise upon death. The spirit is not restored until the Second Coming.

David said he had to sleep in the ground, and that was the closest thing to eternal life. The Cross changed that because Jesus Christ provided a physical resurrection. Not one that was future. It was the second Jesus said, "It is finished". They all received physical incorruptible bodies. All souls in Christ at physical death were immediately given a physical incorruptible body. No more physical resurrection was needed for those souls who used to sleep in Abraham's bosom. That was the physical victory over death, the removal of the sting of death. No one teaches that or accepts that, so we get semantics. We call the physical resurrection "spiritual". It is not spiritual, ethereal, or figurative. It is literally physical. Done and over with for those in Christ. God is the God of the living incorruptible physical body humans. Not the God of the dead corruptible flesh and blood bodies from Adam.

Our souls are given the Holy Spirit as credit, because even those in incorruptible physical bodies in Paradise have to wait for the Second Coming to be joined with the Second Life, our robe of white, glorified bodies of light, known physically as our spirit. Spirit is not a life force like a ghost or ethereal body. That would be the breath of God making us living souls. Some would say a fetus cannot be a soul, until the breath of God enters the physical body. Some say that happens at conception. The Holy Spirit seals every single descendant of Adam at conception. All have a right to reject that Grace of God and choose to seal their own souls with their own "right"ness.

Our spirit at conception because of sin remains with God, and the Holy Spirit seals us, until the day we physically die. Those in sheol are not sealed by the Holy Spirit. Those in Christ are redeemed and given an incorruptible body that is permanent in Paradise. The Holy Spirit does not have to seal once a soul is in their permanent home.

Now there is a day when a soul makes a choice to accept God and with that choice another choice to be led by God and allow the Holy Spirit to work. That changes the mind which is the soul. That does not give you access to your spirit. That does not give you an incorruptible sin free body. Salvation is not a physical nor spiritual change. It is the soul changing from heading to destruction to heading to eternal life.

Is salvation what the verse is talking about when Jesus calls us out of death into either eternal life or eternal damnation? Because most claim that does not happen until the last day of physical time, not the last day of a personal choice to accept God's Atonement. Yet I would go with the former instead of the later. Do you think we have a choice in the matter? Some would say, no, only God decides our fate. What is the point to spread the Gospel or good news, if on the very last Day, God still gets to decide? Why even die on the Cross, if it only covers a few any ways?

No, the Atonement covered all of Adam's descendants. All have a free will choice to accept or reject. The Day of Redemption was on the Cross. The day the Holy Spirit stops sealing is when the Cross takes affect, or when one physically dies. The Cross covers those who physically die in Christ, because the soul immediately enters a permanent incorruptible body in Paradise. Those who reject the Cross will only have a chance at the GWT.

If their original body is given back to them, what is the point? To be eternally reminded of their flesh? Every one quotes verses yet never is dogmatic about either an incorruptible body that can die again, or a corruptible body that can die again. There is nothing about either that can save one from dying again. To just claim to have a body of flesh would mean taking care of a body of flesh in the Lake of Fire. Do they have bodies now? Abraham was said to talk to souls on the other side. People claim to talk with dead bodies all the time. Is it a body or a soul that looks like a body? Sorry but one can stand before God with a soul that looks like a body.

That is the claim (of many) of those souls under the alter, although my claim is they already have an incorruptible body. Many claim the dead in the first resurrection are still dead physically. What was raised then? SG claims it is us living in the first resurrection. We have dead corruptible bodies but some sort of "spiritual" activity going on now. What about the church in Paradise, same spiritual activity but no physical activity at all? How can we have the same spiritual activity, and we are blind to evidence while those in Paradise do not seem to physically control those on earth?

That would be demon possession. Is there a battle going on between souls in Paradise and those in sheol? It is only semantics to those who refuse to define their terms like Paul does about the physical and spiritual aspects of the soul. The physical deals with the body. The spiritual deals with the spirit. It is still one physically created being in the image of God. How many people walk around like Jesus with a transfiguration physical body of one's spirit on them like a robe of white (light)? It is certainly not hanging up in a closet in their home.

Jesus did say you have to have a physical body first. Not a dead physical body. Then after that you can be born with a spiritual body. No, Nicodemus, you cannot be born the second time in your mother's womb. You have to physically die, so the soul can enter the incorruptible living permanent body. That is the first resurrection. Jesus did not even have to die to get His incorruptible body. Unless you accept His corruptible one went back to dust in the tomb within 72 hours.

Then all souls have to wait, even those in Paradise, until the second coming to be glorified and reunited with one's spirit. Then the church will be complete and fully restored sons of God in the complete image of God. The image that the dead soul of Adam lost when Adam disobeyed God. Dead because Adam was changed physically and spiritually at that second. Incorruptible body to a corruptible body, and his spirit was taken away to be with God. Immortality to mortality. The same change in reverse order to those alive at the time of the Second Coming. It cannot be called death. It can only be called coming to life. It was called death and was literally death for Adam who was now a dead soul. Yes Adam lived hundreds of years in a corruptible dead body, physically. An incorruptible body is without sin. An immortal body is one's spirit, the robe of white (light). The term used by Paul was Greek. But the Greeks use Satan's definitions, and the church taught Satan's definitions. Immortal meaning divine unable to die, yet all Greek gods are dead or never existed. Mortal meaning human capable of death. God's definition is being glorified like God, because God is a Spirit and God is Light. Both equally physical attributes associated with God in the form of God's image of being on earth. Humans were literally being God Himself on earth enjoying His creation, yet mere beings created by God in God's creation. Letting the Holy Spirit control one's life is as close to being spiritually saved as one can get. We are not with our spirit, because this corruptible carnal flesh cannot take on our robe of white. And those in Paradise in incorruptible bodies also have to wait.

Now some claim they cannot even have incorruptible bodies. Yet they had to have had bodies when they came out of their graves at the time of the Cross. They could not have them prior, because God Himself had to come to earth to take care of sin. Jesus told the thief on the Cross, today, that day, Paradise and incorruptible bodies were made possible on the Cross. The soul has to first have a physical body. In the future at the Second Coming the soul will have a spirit. We have a spirit that is constantly in God's presence. It testifies to all we are. If it cannot and becomes a demon, that is when a spirit is sent out into the world. We are not told the how and why, because the occult is forbidden to humans. We just know that demonic spirits can possess living humans who mess with the occult. The only physical being ever created with a spirit are humans on the 6th day. Jesus was telling Nicodemus how the dead soul could be restored in an incorruptible body, and at the Second Coming be born of the Second Life, our spirit, robe of white.

The first resurrection and the Cross restored the physical incorruptible body. The Second Coming will restore the spirit the Second birth and Second Life. The soul is dead, until quickened with accepting the Atonement. Physical death restores the incorruptible body. The soon Second Coming will restore our spirit to our incorruptible body.

The Second Coming is over and completed by the 7th Trumpet. The resurrection after Satan's 42 months only applies to those beheaded during those 42 months. John does not say, however, the restoration of the sheep, the Nation of Israel, and the restoration of the Nations, the harvest of the wheat is also tied into that resurrection, as all those humans will populate earth in incorruptible bodies for 1000 years. The rest of Adam's dead souls remain dead souls until the dead souls stand before the GWT.

Many have taught a second chance "gospel" here at the GWT. Are there names still found in the Lamb's book of life, which was opened just after the Second Coming in the 7th Seal. Many had been in sheol for thousands of years before any names could even be removed. Names were not removed while the book was sealed. If that were possible, Moses claimed he would have his removed so all of his people could be saved instead. Perhaps that was just a figure of speech? It was impossible either way. The first time we see names not there is when people take the mark and now their name is not in the book. Do those in sheol take the mark? Are they prevented from an economy in sheol if they do not?

At that day (GWT) God will say, depart from me, I never knew you. How can God be omniscient now and currently never know someone? The act of removing their name from the Lamb's book of life, at that moment, would make it permanent that God never knew them as if they never existed in the Lamb's book of life. Will many at that point choose to remain in the Lamb's book of life? I think that is why many imply there is a "second" first resurrection at that point for some if not many. Just to have a dead physical body is not the same thing.

I would add another point. Those during the 1000 years are born in sin free incorruptible bodies that cannot be touched by the Second death. What about rebellion or braking the Law? Are those born from resurrected bodies even in the Lamb's book of life or covered by the Atonement as they are not from Adam's flesh and blood. Were the original sons of God under the Atonement who were not part of Adam's flesh and blood? These are unknowns and speculations. Part of Noah's Flood was the result off the mixing of genetic lines between humans who were sons of God and Adam's descendants. It is plausible that those living who were resurrected can never die again. Their offspring though are not in the Lamb's book of life. Are not even a part of the church period. The church cannot even have offspring with those born on earth during the 1000 years. For one, the church remains closed up in Paradise until it comes down as the New Jerusalem. Those sitting on the thrones in Paradise cannot come down and intermingle with those on earth. So the obvious point is rebellion or braking the Law is instant Death. Those souls never even get a choice. Their choice was the physical act of rebellion. They were never covered by the Atonement and never will be. They are judged at the GWT on the single act of rebellion and cast into the Lake of Fire. That is why Death is introduced in the 4th Seal just prior to glorification in the 5th Seal. Not being in the Lamb's book of life while physically alive, there is only one choice and it is not based on the Atonement of the Cross at all. It is follow Satan or physically die. Those who take the mark make that choice physically and irreversibly. That is instant Death upon physical death. The same single choice remains for 1000 years under the iron rod. Obey or instant Death. The Second death is guaranteed along with the physical death. Death with a capital D is irreversible. In fact those who are beheaded by that one single choice are the one's resurrected to have future offspring who have that one choice of Obeying the Word of God Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. Satan will not be around, but it seems the second he is loosed, he will instantly have a following of those who after hundreds of years easily reject God and God's plan on the earth. Some even reject the 1000 year plan of God today.
 
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Timtofly

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You say any body can enter heaven, but Paul disagrees.

1 Corinthians 15:50

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Therefore, it's my opinion that if these people were not raised with their heavenly bodies, then they would've still had to die again on earth before being changed into their heavenly bodies. And that's why I was asking you, which type of body do you think they were raised with?
The point of physical death for those in Christ is the soul entering a permanent body. 2 Corinthians 5. Lazarus heard the voice of Jesus and came forth in an incorruptible sin free body. It is physical on earth, and physical in Paradise. Enoch was translated, his physical body changed. Not just a type, but the original human to actually change without dying (the sting of death). The physical change is not life to death. It is death to life. This physical temporal body is one of death. It will decay and die. This body gives the world's economy fits, because to maintain it cost a lot of work.

It is not a physical body that prevents us from Paradise. It is a body of sin and death. Sin is not allowed in Paradise. That is why Adam and his offspring were banned from the Garden while Paradise was on earth before the Flood changed the geography of earth.

There is no such thing as a heavenly body. It is an incorruptible sin free body. It is the body humans were given as sons of God in the image of God on the 6th day.

If you go by Genesis 6, that body was larger, but also had a spirit that was a bright light surrounding the inner physical body. To us they would be giant physical bodies entirely surrounded by bright light. When the spirit of Adam and Eve left, only after Adam ate, of course they saw their naked bodies. They no longer had on the robe of white (light) surrounding their physical bodies.
 
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Timtofly

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Acts 24:15 says there will be a resurrection for everyone both just and unjust.

So if I understand you correctly the dead in Revelation 20:5 are resurrected (see Acts 24:15), stand before the GWT, are judged and not found in the book of life, are thrown into the lake of fire, and then they live again.

Do I have your interpretation correct? If this is true shouldn’t the lake of fire be called the second life instead of the second death?
You are hung up on resurrection. Do you call eternal damnation, eternal life?

Do they have a civilization with everything like now, but just elementally based on fire?

Or is Lake of Fire just a name and not a condition?

Do you think it is a code name for all these people being placed on Mars? Are they resurrected into Martian bodies?
 
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Timtofly

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No one of the second resurrection escapes the LOF.



This is incorrect, they are all alive.



They take part of the resurrection of damnation not the resurrection of life:

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
The dead are revived to Death.
 
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DavidPT

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The dead are revived to Death.


I don't disagree with this since that is the chronology of events involved, because the 2nd death occurs after they are revived and not prior to them being revived instead. For the dead to be revived means to live again, be bodily resurrected. It is impossible to be revived, resurrected, without it involving living again. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are raised in an immortal body though. Only the saved inherit immortal bodies.
 
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DavidPT

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So why would John call them dead in Revelation 20:12 when they are before the GWTJ? Would you say they are spiritually dead but physically resurrected in Revelation 20:12?

IMO, compared to those that have part in the first resurrection, those that have part in the 2nd resurrection are always going to be considered the dead, even when they are bodily raised, the fact they don't live forever like those who have part in the first resurrection do. My Bible says that only the saved are granted immortal life, and not the unsaved as well.
 
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grafted branch

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IMO, compared to those that have part in the first resurrection, those that have part in the 2nd resurrection are always going to be considered the dead, even when they are bodily raised, the fact they don't live forever like those who have part in the first resurrection do. My Bible says that only the saved are granted immortal life, and not the unsaved as well.
What are your thoughts on Revelation 14:13 where it says blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth.

This verse seems to be calling believers “dead”. Where would you place them in regards to the 1st and 2nd resurrection? If they die prior to the 2nd resurrection then couldn’t the dead in Revelation 20:5 be referring to believers also?
 
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Freedm

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It is not semantics, although most use the terms that way. It is physical and spiritual. It is being born of the flesh and the spirit.

No one will be born of the spirit until the Second Coming. That is why it is semantics to many. They want the spirit now. Only the Holy Spirit is given now. We have no access or control of our spirit until the Second Coming. Most do not want to hear that. Guess what? Those before the cross did not have an incorruptible body, but a soul in Abraham's bosom. Those born before Christ were not even allowed in Paradise upon death. The spirit is not restored until the Second Coming.

David said he had to sleep in the ground, and that was the closest thing to eternal life. The Cross changed that because Jesus Christ provided a physical resurrection. Not one that was future. It was the second Jesus said, "It is finished". They all received physical incorruptible bodies. All souls in Christ at physical death were immediately given a physical incorruptible body. No more physical resurrection was needed for those souls who used to sleep in Abraham's bosom. That was the physical victory over death, the removal of the sting of death. No one teaches that or accepts that, so we get semantics. We call the physical resurrection "spiritual". It is not spiritual, ethereal, or figurative. It is literally physical. Done and over with for those in Christ. God is the God of the living incorruptible physical body humans. Not the God of the dead corruptible flesh and blood bodies from Adam.

Our souls are given the Holy Spirit as credit, because even those in incorruptible physical bodies in Paradise have to wait for the Second Coming to be joined with the Second Life, our robe of white, glorified bodies of light, known physically as our spirit. Spirit is not a life force like a ghost or ethereal body. That would be the breath of God making us living souls. Some would say a fetus cannot be a soul, until the breath of God enters the physical body. Some say that happens at conception. The Holy Spirit seals every single descendant of Adam at conception. All have a right to reject that Grace of God and choose to seal their own souls with their own "right"ness.

Our spirit at conception because of sin remains with God, and the Holy Spirit seals us, until the day we physically die. Those in sheol are not sealed by the Holy Spirit. Those in Christ are redeemed and given an incorruptible body that is permanent in Paradise. The Holy Spirit does not have to seal once a soul is in their permanent home.

Now there is a day when a soul makes a choice to accept God and with that choice another choice to be led by God and allow the Holy Spirit to work. That changes the mind which is the soul. That does not give you access to your spirit. That does not give you an incorruptible sin free body. Salvation is not a physical nor spiritual change. It is the soul changing from heading to destruction to heading to eternal life.

Is salvation what the verse is talking about when Jesus calls us out of death into either eternal life or eternal damnation? Because most claim that does not happen until the last day of physical time, not the last day of a personal choice to accept God's Atonement. Yet I would go with the former instead of the later. Do you think we have a choice in the matter? Some would say, no, only God decides our fate. What is the point to spread the Gospel or good news, if on the very last Day, God still gets to decide? Why even die on the Cross, if it only covers a few any ways?

No, the Atonement covered all of Adam's descendants. All have a free will choice to accept or reject. The Day of Redemption was on the Cross. The day the Holy Spirit stops sealing is when the Cross takes affect, or when one physically dies. The Cross covers those who physically die in Christ, because the soul immediately enters a permanent incorruptible body in Paradise. Those who reject the Cross will only have a chance at the GWT.

If their original body is given back to them, what is the point? To be eternally reminded of their flesh? Every one quotes verses yet never is dogmatic about either an incorruptible body that can die again, or a corruptible body that can die again. There is nothing about either that can save one from dying again. To just claim to have a body of flesh would mean taking care of a body of flesh in the Lake of Fire. Do they have bodies now? Abraham was said to talk to souls on the other side. People claim to talk with dead bodies all the time. Is it a body or a soul that looks like a body? Sorry but one can stand before God with a soul that looks like a body.

That is the claim (of many) of those souls under the alter, although my claim is they already have an incorruptible body. Many claim the dead in the first resurrection are still dead physically. What was raised then? SG claims it is us living in the first resurrection. We have dead corruptible bodies but some sort of "spiritual" activity going on now. What about the church in Paradise, same spiritual activity but no physical activity at all? How can we have the same spiritual activity, and we are blind to evidence while those in Paradise do not seem to physically control those on earth?

That would be demon possession. Is there a battle going on between souls in Paradise and those in sheol? It is only semantics to those who refuse to define their terms like Paul does about the physical and spiritual aspects of the soul. The physical deals with the body. The spiritual deals with the spirit. It is still one physically created being in the image of God. How many people walk around like Jesus with a transfiguration physical body of one's spirit on them like a robe of white (light)? It is certainly not hanging up in a closet in their home.

Jesus did say you have to have a physical body first. Not a dead physical body. Then after that you can be born with a spiritual body. No, Nicodemus, you cannot be born the second time in your mother's womb. You have to physically die, so the soul can enter the incorruptible living permanent body. That is the first resurrection. Jesus did not even have to die to get His incorruptible body. Unless you accept His corruptible one went back to dust in the tomb within 72 hours.

Then all souls have to wait, even those in Paradise, until the second coming to be glorified and reunited with one's spirit. Then the church will be complete and fully restored sons of God in the complete image of God. The image that the dead soul of Adam lost when Adam disobeyed God. Dead because Adam was changed physically and spiritually at that second. Incorruptible body to a corruptible body, and his spirit was taken away to be with God. Immortality to mortality. The same change in reverse order to those alive at the time of the Second Coming. It cannot be called death. It can only be called coming to life. It was called death and was literally death for Adam who was now a dead soul. Yes Adam lived hundreds of years in a corruptible dead body, physically. An incorruptible body is without sin. An immortal body is one's spirit, the robe of white (light). The term used by Paul was Greek. But the Greeks use Satan's definitions, and the church taught Satan's definitions. Immortal meaning divine unable to die, yet all Greek gods are dead or never existed. Mortal meaning human capable of death. God's definition is being glorified like God, because God is a Spirit and God is Light. Both equally physical attributes associated with God in the form of God's image of being on earth. Humans were literally being God Himself on earth enjoying His creation, yet mere beings created by God in God's creation. Letting the Holy Spirit control one's life is as close to being spiritually saved as one can get. We are not with our spirit, because this corruptible carnal flesh cannot take on our robe of white. And those in Paradise in incorruptible bodies also have to wait.

Now some claim they cannot even have incorruptible bodies. Yet they had to have had bodies when they came out of their graves at the time of the Cross. They could not have them prior, because God Himself had to come to earth to take care of sin. Jesus told the thief on the Cross, today, that day, Paradise and incorruptible bodies were made possible on the Cross. The soul has to first have a physical body. In the future at the Second Coming the soul will have a spirit. We have a spirit that is constantly in God's presence. It testifies to all we are. If it cannot and becomes a demon, that is when a spirit is sent out into the world. We are not told the how and why, because the occult is forbidden to humans. We just know that demonic spirits can possess living humans who mess with the occult. The only physical being ever created with a spirit are humans on the 6th day. Jesus was telling Nicodemus how the dead soul could be restored in an incorruptible body, and at the Second Coming be born of the Second Life, our spirit, robe of white.

The first resurrection and the Cross restored the physical incorruptible body. The Second Coming will restore the spirit the Second birth and Second Life. The soul is dead, until quickened with accepting the Atonement. Physical death restores the incorruptible body. The soon Second Coming will restore our spirit to our incorruptible body.

The Second Coming is over and completed by the 7th Trumpet. The resurrection after Satan's 42 months only applies to those beheaded during those 42 months. John does not say, however, the restoration of the sheep, the Nation of Israel, and the restoration of the Nations, the harvest of the wheat is also tied into that resurrection, as all those humans will populate earth in incorruptible bodies for 1000 years. The rest of Adam's dead souls remain dead souls until the dead souls stand before the GWT.

Many have taught a second chance "gospel" here at the GWT. Are there names still found in the Lamb's book of life, which was opened just after the Second Coming in the 7th Seal. Many had been in sheol for thousands of years before any names could even be removed. Names were not removed while the book was sealed. If that were possible, Moses claimed he would have his removed so all of his people could be saved instead. Perhaps that was just a figure of speech? It was impossible either way. The first time we see names not there is when people take the mark and now their name is not in the book. Do those in sheol take the mark? Are they prevented from an economy in sheol if they do not?

At that day (GWT) God will say, depart from me, I never knew you. How can God be omniscient now and currently never know someone? The act of removing their name from the Lamb's book of life, at that moment, would make it permanent that God never knew them as if they never existed in the Lamb's book of life. Will many at that point choose to remain in the Lamb's book of life? I think that is why many imply there is a "second" first resurrection at that point for some if not many. Just to have a dead physical body is not the same thing.

I would add another point. Those during the 1000 years are born in sin free incorruptible bodies that cannot be touched by the Second death. What about rebellion or braking the Law? Are those born from resurrected bodies even in the Lamb's book of life or covered by the Atonement as they are not from Adam's flesh and blood. Were the original sons of God under the Atonement who were not part of Adam's flesh and blood? These are unknowns and speculations. Part of Noah's Flood was the result off the mixing of genetic lines between humans who were sons of God and Adam's descendants. It is plausible that those living who were resurrected can never die again. Their offspring though are not in the Lamb's book of life. Are not even a part of the church period. The church cannot even have offspring with those born on earth during the 1000 years. For one, the church remains closed up in Paradise until it comes down as the New Jerusalem. Those sitting on the thrones in Paradise cannot come down and intermingle with those on earth. So the obvious point is rebellion or braking the Law is instant Death. Those souls never even get a choice. Their choice was the physical act of rebellion. They were never covered by the Atonement and never will be. They are judged at the GWT on the single act of rebellion and cast into the Lake of Fire. That is why Death is introduced in the 4th Seal just prior to glorification in the 5th Seal. Not being in the Lamb's book of life while physically alive, there is only one choice and it is not based on the Atonement of the Cross at all. It is follow Satan or physically die. Those who take the mark make that choice physically and irreversibly. That is instant Death upon physical death. The same single choice remains for 1000 years under the iron rod. Obey or instant Death. The Second death is guaranteed along with the physical death. Death with a capital D is irreversible. In fact those who are beheaded by that one single choice are the one's resurrected to have future offspring who have that one choice of Obeying the Word of God Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. Satan will not be around, but it seems the second he is loosed, he will instantly have a following of those who after hundreds of years easily reject God and God's plan on the earth. Some even reject the 1000 year plan of God today.
No offense, but I asked a simple yes or no question so I will not read the book you gave in response.
 
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Freedm

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The point of physical death for those in Christ is the soul entering a permanent body. 2 Corinthians 5.
You're confusing the word "soul" with "spirit". Not the same thing. When the spirit of God enters the body, the body becomes a soul.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Lazarus heard the voice of Jesus and came forth in an incorruptible sin free body.
Since the Bible does not actually say this, on what do you base this assertion?

Enoch was translated, his physical body changed.
I suppose you're going to make the claim that Enoch went into heaven, even though Jesus told us that no one has gone into heaven.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.

It is not a physical body that prevents us from Paradise. It is a body of sin and death.
On what scriptures do you base this claim?

There is no such thing as a heavenly body.
No heavenly bodies? So then Paul didn't know what he was talking about?

1 Corinthians 15:40
There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies

If you go by Genesis 6, that body was larger, but also had a spirit that was a bright light surrounding the inner physical body. To us they would be giant physical bodies entirely surrounded by bright light. When the spirit of Adam and Eve left, only after Adam ate, of course they saw their naked bodies. They no longer had on the robe of white (light) surrounding their physical bodies.
Seriously, where do you get this stuff? Almost every single thing you said in your post is either made up without scriptural backing, or incorrect, or literally contradicting scripture. Please be more careful with the claims you make.
 
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Timtofly

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You're confusing the word "soul" with "spirit". Not the same thing. When the spirit of God enters the body, the body becomes a soul.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Since the Bible does not actually say this, on what do you base this assertion?


I suppose you're going to make the claim that Enoch went into heaven, even though Jesus told us that no one has gone into heaven.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.


On what scriptures do you base this claim?


No heavenly bodies? So then Paul didn't know what he was talking about?

1 Corinthians 15:40
There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies


Seriously, where do you get this stuff? Almost every single thing you said in your post is either made up without scriptural backing, or incorrect, or literally contradicting scripture. Please be more careful with the claims you make.
Breath and spirit are not always the same thing. Breath, pnuema can mean spirit, but God's breath is not the Holy Spirit.

There are no yes and no answers if you have different definitions.

Jesus says flesh and blood, not "no man".

An angel is a heavenly body.

What I post is against human interpretation or what humans teach. There is a difference.
 
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DavidPT

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What are your thoughts on Revelation 14:13 where it says blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth.

This verse seems to be calling believers “dead”. Where would you place them in regards to the 1st and 2nd resurrection? If they die prior to the 2nd resurrection then couldn’t the dead in Revelation 20:5 be referring to believers also?


Some good questions you raise here. As to the first resurrection and 2nd resurrection, where the latter is meaning when the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years finish first, let's first look at what is said about the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first thing to note is that it says----Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. Let's now look at what is said about, or not said about the 2nd resurrection.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice what it does not say in a single one of these 4 verses. It does not say that anyone taking part in the 2nd resurrection are also blessed and holy. It only says that of those that have part in the first resurrection. This alone tells us that no one who has part in the first resurrection also have part in the 2nd resurrection. If that were true, that should mean some of those in verse 15 also have part in the first resurrection. Yet no one would argue that, at least I wouldn't think so.

Let's look at what else is said about the first resurrection----on such the second death hath no power

If we compare that to verse 15, that verse shows that the 2nd death obviously has power over those at the 2nd resurrection. All of them, or just some of them, that is the question? Since no one needs to be resurrected twice, Jesus for sure didn't, since that would equal being resurrected twice if one partakes in the first resurrection and the 2nd one rather than just one or the other, that should be further proof that anyone who has part in the first resurrection don't also have part in the 2nd resurrection.

The way some try and get around this, especially Amils, they insist that the first resurrection is not even bodily, though Christ's resurrection was obviously bodily. Amils don't deny a bodily resurrection, they simply insist that the first resurrection is not a bodily one, therefore it is the 2nd resurrection that is bodily for both believers and unbelievers. So where in Revelation 20:12-15 does it ever indicate that anyone having part in that resurrection, that some of then are also blessed and holy? I don't see anything like that in those verses.
 
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Timtofly

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No, they are resurrected back to mortal life so they can be judged and then die the second death.
The second death is not physical again, it is of their spirit, a demon. They do not need bodies for their spirit to be cast into the Lake of Fire.
 
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ewq1938

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The second death is not physical again, it is of their spirit, a demon. They do not need bodies for their spirit to be cast into the Lake of Fire.

That contradicts scripture that literally says they will be resurrected. If the resurrection of life is physical, so is the resurrection of damnation.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This proves the unsaved MUST have bodies that are cast into hell/LOF.
 
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DavidPT

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That contradicts scripture that literally says they will be resurrected. If the resurrection of life is physical, so is the resurrection of damnation.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This proves the unsaved MUST have bodies that are cast into hell/LOF.

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

The above also proves your point.

IMO, what is meant by hell here, is the lake of fire, and not meaning what happens to someone upon death. No one when they die, bodily ascends or descends anywhere. It is only the soul that ascends or descends somewhere upon death. Therefore, for one's whole body to be cast into hell, this is meaning after they have been bodily raised, then bodily cast into the LOF at the great white throne judgment.
 
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grafted branch

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Some good questions you raise here. As to the first resurrection and 2nd resurrection, where the latter is meaning when the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years finish first, let's first look at what is said about the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first thing to note is that it says----Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. Let's now look at what is said about, or not said about the 2nd resurrection.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice what it does not say in a single one of these 4 verses. It does not say that anyone taking part in the 2nd resurrection are also blessed and holy. It only says that of those that have part in the first resurrection. This alone tells us that no one who has part in the first resurrection also have part in the 2nd resurrection. If that were true, that should mean some of those in verse 15 also have part in the first resurrection. Yet no one would argue that, at least I wouldn't think so.

Let's look at what else is said about the first resurrection----on such the second death hath no power

If we compare that to verse 15, that verse shows that the 2nd death obviously has power over those at the 2nd resurrection. All of them, or just some of them, that is the question? Since no one needs to be resurrected twice, Jesus for sure didn't, since that would equal being resurrected twice if one partakes in the first resurrection and the 2nd one rather than just one or the other, that should be further proof that anyone who has part in the first resurrection don't also have part in the 2nd resurrection.

The way some try and get around this, especially Amils, they insist that the first resurrection is not even bodily, though Christ's resurrection was obviously bodily. Amils don't deny a bodily resurrection, they simply insist that the first resurrection is not a bodily one, therefore it is the 2nd resurrection that is bodily for both believers and unbelievers. So where in Revelation 20:12-15 does it ever indicate that anyone having part in that resurrection, that some of then are also blessed and holy? I don't see anything like that in those verses.
I agree with you that Revelation 20:12-15 doesn’t show anyone who is saved being judged. But if Revelation 14:13 occurs before the 1st resurrection and no one from the 2nd resurrection is saved then no saved person dies after the 1st resurrection (during the millennium).

Verses such as Isaiah 65:20 show death and Ezekiel 44:22 shows a widow that had a priest before. So certainly there is death in the millennium but would you say that only unbelievers who are in the millennium die?
 
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ewq1938

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Verses such as Isaiah 65:20 show death and Ezekiel 44:22 shows a widow that had a priest before. So certainly there is death in the millennium but would you say that only unbelievers who are in the millennium die?

Priests in the Millennium are immortal so it's impossible any priest will die during that time plus that is post-resurrection which means there are no marriage either. That part of Ezekiel simply isn't the Millennium.
 
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