Christmas trees?

Carl Emerson · Dec 21, 2020

Some think that this reference in Jeremiah 10 applies to Christmas trees... and frown on those who have them...

What do you think?

1Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel.

2Thus says the LORD,
“Do not learn the way of the nations,
And do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens
Although the nations are terrified by them;

3For the customs of the peoples are delusion;
Because it is wood cut from the forest,
The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool.

4“They decorate it with silver and with gold;
They fasten it with nails and with hammers
So that it will not totter....

By the way - Merry Christmas everyone !!!

Pavel Mosko · Dec 21, 2020

Well I Blogged this a few years ago.....

Introduction (an old post - reposted to answer some other posts on the board)
In the last decade, Christmas, has come under attack. Most westerners are used to have such attacks coming from atheists, Muslims, and liberals, but what is truly, interesting is when CHRISTIANS object to Christmas displays. One of the anti-Christmas movements gaining some traction is the notion among certain Christian fundamentalists is that Christmas is a pagan corruption, and the Christmas tree itself is a form of pagan idolatry.

There are some grains of truth to this claim, but in this series, I will be putting forth some reasons why I believe the Crusade Against Christmas and Christmas trees is itself is a dangerous movement that has a few heretical implications for Christianity. Furthermore, in spite of whatever the origins of decorative trees, Christmas has been a way that Christians have celebrated some of the important truths of their faith for at least 1700 years (roughly speaking).
My Presentation of the case against the Christmas tree comes from a former Facebook Associate. He is a nondenominational Charismatic who claims to be a prophet. I will refer to him with the pseudo name, “Brother X”.

Brother X's Case against the Christmas tree in a Nutshell

1) Brother X, correctly notes the Early Church “used the Old Testament as its Bible” (Because the NT was still being written in the 1st century, and took a couple of centuries for copies to be made by hand to become widely available).

2) He then References Old Testament verses regarding Idolatry. Not only were the Jews of the OT not practice idolatry but they were supposed to avoid having any knowledge of it. They were to remove all traces of it from their land, avoid saying the names of pagan gods etc.

3) The Christmas tree is a practice that descends from paganism. (Not the exact custom, but pagans from various regions from Egypt, Rome, and Germany did decorate their homes during the winter months with greenery, like tree branches, vines, mistletoe etc. )
http://www.whychristmas.com/customs/trees.shtml

4) Brother X then references Jeremiah 10:3-4. Brother X “Doesn’t this sound like a Christmas tree?”
Jeremiah 10:3-4
“For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool. 4"They decorate it with silver and with gold; They fasten it with nails and with hammers So that it will not totter.”

5) Brother X notes Old Testament passages regarding contamination (i.e. leprosy, mold, other disease) says this is a prevalent theme in the Pentateuch because “of the spiritual implications from contamination”. People can be corrupted by coming into contact with things that are impure, corrupt and evil.
6) Therefore, according to Brother X, all Christians should stay away from all customs and practices that descend from paganism, even Christmas trees... 

PS – or point 7) Brother X, believes the reluctance of other Christians to see things the way he does is a result of “Their conscience being seared” (1 Timothy 4:2) and is further proof of their idolatry!

My Rebuttal point 1) Brother X view is contradicted by Jesus and the NT.
Mark 7:17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
Our corruption is not a result of being exposed to things the Mosaic Law forbids but the sins we actually practice. I guarantee that 99.999% of people buy and decorate a Christmas tree not to worship it, or to celebrate pagan gods but because they think it is pretty and want to make their home a bit more festive and bright for the holidays.

Point 2) Bishop Elect Stan Smith reaction
My BFF is too busy to be blogging these days, but figured I would give his reaction which is very apt and on target. He cites: Colossians 2:21-23New International Version (NIV)
21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
“This is a way of being special without having to actually do anything, Like help someone.”
(This is actually jumping the gun a bit, but he actually is on to something here. One of my later points, I was going to make Brother X seem to be on the road to becoming a cult leader. He never seems to be able to be at a church for any length of time. He seems driven to nitpick and fault find with everyone around him. He has his own little group that he is happy with, but he pretty much sets the rules and expels anybody that contradicts him).

Point 3) Inconsistencies and Myths about Culture
1) People who make these overly strict rules are usually not entirely consistent in their application of such principles (and thank God for that). What I’m saying is we have some aspects of the pagan heritage that are embedded deep in our society that are hard to escape from. A few examples: The Months of the Year come from Roman pagan society, while the names of the days of the week come directly from Norse pagan society. Do such people protest these bits of paganism by refusing to use such terminology? Another example is our money, it is no secret that many of the Founding Fathers were Masons and used the symbols taken from Egyptian paganism. Do such people refuse to use US dollar bills because “The All-Seeing Eye of Ra” is printed on one side? I suspect the answer in most cases would be “No”, since that would extremely inconvenient (and in some cases financially costly).

2) A) Besides this there are some myths about culture. Many Charismatics have almost a Gnostic conception of a pure “Spiritual” belief or practice that is free of culture. The first time I recognized this was reading a Ken Hagin book, “Plans, Purposes, and Pursuits” when he spoke about “worship in the Spirit”. He chastised people who did “Square Dancing” during the Church service (dancing in the Spirit), and said “that was fleshly”. He however approved of the “Pentecostal hop”, which I guess seems more visceral and therefore more spiritual. This sort of reasoning is nonsense. Almost everything we do is culture related. The Pentecostal hop is just a product of a special sub culture. It is not something that is purely spiritual. Maybe the first people who did it, reacted that way, but once others see others do it. You get into “monkey see, monkey do”. And yes, even if you are against “the teaching of men”, you do end up develop your own unique cultural tradition.

B) One thing should also be said of Hebrew Culture before ending the post. Because Hebrew culture is the culture of the Bible, and the Jews are “God’s Chosen people” many people see Hebrew culture as something that is pure and Holy, spiritual etc. To those kinds of notions, I have to remind people that every culture beyond The Garden of Eden comes from somewhere else! Before Abraham left UR of the Chaldees he resided in a pagan land and had the culture of that land. You can see that in the Old Testament itself. Why do you think God is always appearing in the Pentateuch as a form of fire? That was a vestige of the Sumerian culture and religion that was part of the early Hebrew way of seeing the divine. Similarly, during the Captivity in Egypt the Hebrew culture adopted a number of things from the Egyptians: like the practice of stoning, they adopted their forms of poetry and wisdom literature (psalms, proverbs etc. is based on similar things the Egyptians did). Anyway, if paganism infects true religion and culture the Hebrews were infected 4 or 5 thousand years before the Christmas tree.

Point 4) Some Positive Preaching From aspects of the pagan heritage
Philippians 1:15-18New International Version (NIV)
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
It's interesting that saint Paul only cares about one thing, that Christ is preached! He doesn’t sweat the details or motivations. So based on that I will make a few points.

A) The Christmas tree has been a means of celebrating one of “the essential truths” of Christianity the Incarnation of Christ. The Christmas tree does not corrupt true religion but utilizes and engages contemporary culture for the message of the Gospel much like Paul preaching at Mars Hill in the book of Acts.

B) On the subject, of the pagan heritage It should be noted that the pagan heritage has given us a few good things. Without evangelism of the Germanic tribes their might not be any military chaplains. One of the conditions for evangelizing the Germanic tribes was they demanded clergy that would go into battle with them (to replace their priests of Odin and Thor that went with them into battle to have the favor of the gods). And from these we got the warrior priests of the crusades, that is the early ancestor of the modern military chaplain. Can anyone truly say that this is not a benefit? (Given how vulnerable young people are during peace time, let alone when fighting an actual war.)

Not to beat a dead horse
There are many other points that could be made and scriptures that could be quoted.
Overall I see the Crusade against the Christmas tree as a divisive issue that goes against the basic spirit of the original "Counsel of Jerusalem" in Acts 15, and flies in the face of much of the ministry of saint Paul.

PS - One of the points I meant to better describe in the post is the Crusade against Christmas and "Paganism" in general mirrors the problems with the NT Judaizers. Both groups believed there was something intrinsically wrong with things associated with the outsiders (beyond questions of the Occult that is) Namely, were talking about how things like non-koshur meats, literally materially evil in themselves). This also end up being the reason behind some of the Rabbinic fences around associating with gentiles etc. which was why the Judaizers were afraid to associate with gentile believers. (Their non-koshurness would rub off on them). Obviously xenophobic attitudes like this are problematic when it comes to evangelizing the whole world.

Sketcher · Dec 21, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Some think that this reference in Jeremiah 10 applies to Christmas trees... and frown on those who have them...

What do you think?

1Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel.

2Thus says the LORD,
“Do not learn the way of the nations,
And do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens
Although the nations are terrified by them;

3For the customs of the peoples are delusion;
Because it is wood cut from the forest,
The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool.

4“They decorate it with silver and with gold;
They fasten it with nails and with hammers
So that it will not totter....

By the way - Merry Christmas everyone !!!

It's clearly talking about an idol carved out of wood, and decorated - perhaps laid over - with silver and/or gold. It's not a Christmas tree in any sense, nor is a Christmas tree an idol in any sense unless someone chooses to make one into an idol. It reminds me of Isaiah 40:18-20.

Lost4words · Dec 21, 2020

Christmas trees are lovely and extremely useful if in a good sized pot.

It means i dont have to go looking for a tree or post when it is raining or snowing outside.

Palmfever · Dec 21, 2020

Got an artificial one, 6ft. with lights, $35.00. Does that count? Should I take it back? Is the devil in the details, or the tree itself?

Pavel Mosko · Dec 21, 2020

Lost4words said:
Christmas trees are lovely and extremely useful if in a good sized pot.

It means i dont have to go looking for a tree or post when it is raining or snowing outside.

oooh ohhh! Bad Dog!

ralliann · Dec 21, 2020

Sketcher said:
It's clearly talking about an idol carved out of wood, and decorated - perhaps laid over - with silver and/or gold. It's not a Christmas tree in any sense, nor is a Christmas tree an idol in any sense unless someone chooses to make one into an idol. It reminds me of Isaiah 40:18-20.

Yes, the temple had furniture of wood overlayed with gold

1Ki 6:32 The two doors also were of olive tree; and he carved upon them carvings of cherubims and palm trees and open flowers, and overlaid them with gold, and spread gold upon the cherubims, and upon the palm trees. {two … : or, leaves of the doors } {open flowers: Heb. openings of flowers }
1Ki 6:35 And he carved thereon cherubims and palm trees and open flowers: and covered them with gold fitted upon the carved work.

many many things of the tabernacle and the temple were wood overlaid with gold. the carved Cherubim were of such.

Der Alte · Dec 21, 2020

I have been a Christian since LBJ was president and I have never seen a Christmas tree involved in any observance of the birth of the savior.
The only Christmas trees I have seen in a church was in the foyer and it was called an "Angel Tree." There were little cards on the tree, with the name, age, gender of a needy person and a present they would like to receive. Whoever wishes to can take a card and buy a present.
To add to the two counter scriptures above both mention a craftsman. Cutting down a tree and decorating it does not require a craftsman anybody can do it.
I do not know of any reference, anywhere where some ancient society worshiped a decorated tree.
Lets us look at the Jeremiah passage.

Jeremiah 10:3-6
3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good."

Vs. 5 pagans quote their idols speaking, giving commands etc. Decorated trees do not and are not expected to speak.
Pagan deities are spoken of as moving about. Decorated trees do not and are not expected to move.
Pagan deities are spoken of as rewarding/punishing their followers. Decorated trees do not and are not expected to reward/punish people.

timothyu · Dec 21, 2020

A Christmas tree is hardly representative of the ways of man. The passages could have easily said we build of sand, the world made in our own image.

NBB · Dec 22, 2020

I like the pretty lights...
Something wrong with the tree? i don't know for sure, people can have trouble with everything if they do something for the wrong reasons i guess.

Carl Emerson · Dec 22, 2020

Great responses thanks.

Frankly I think the enemy of our souls is trying to bind up folks in false judgement and in so doing bring division into the body.

We have just started to decorate our tree for the 36th time during our marriage.

We have quite some family tradition doing this - fruit mince pies, grape juice, celebrating the love come down to earth together.

RickardoHolmes · Dec 22, 2020

I have several. Last count, 5 different 9nes all with lights. Two are themed, one has lights only, and two are traditional, one real, one fake.

Vanellus · Dec 22, 2020

I recently watched an interesting programme about how Charles Dickens was the man who invented what we now know as the traditional Christmas, mostly through his famous novella: A Christmas Carol.
In that story shops are open on Christmas Day. Newspapers were sold on Christmas Day. The programme's narrator observed that the London Times had no mention of the word "Christmas" on Christmas Day in 1843, nor had it done for the last 25 years.

Now that doesn't make Christmas pagan or anti-Christian but it does show that Christians and non-Christians alike managed to live without the idea of a traditional Christmas for many centuries.

ViaCrucis · Dec 23, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Some think that this reference in Jeremiah 10 applies to Christmas trees... and frown on those who have them...

What do you think?

1Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel.

2Thus says the LORD,
“Do not learn the way of the nations,
And do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens
Although the nations are terrified by them;

3For the customs of the peoples are delusion;
Because it is wood cut from the forest,
The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool.

4“They decorate it with silver and with gold;
They fasten it with nails and with hammers
So that it will not totter....

By the way - Merry Christmas everyone !!!

This is a reference to asherahs, also called Asherah poles. The cultic worship of Asherah involved the fashioning of a wooden pole with carvings and various decorations precious metals. This cult of Asherah is highly condemned.

A Christmas tree, on the other hand, has nothing to do with this. A Christmas tree is a custom that originated in the late middle ages in the Holy Roman Empire. The custom is sometimes attributed to Martin Luther; but more likely Luther and other Reformers simply helped popularize the custom. The use of an evergreen tree representing eternal life in Christ by His death on the cross (the "tree"), and decorating it with candles to represent the light of Christ, He is after all the Light of the world. And so as a symbol of Christ's precious Advent, it not only highlights the beautiful wonder of the coming of the Lord in His Incarnation, but for what reason He came (see also John 12:32-36).

There's simply no comparing these things. They are as different from one another as can possibly be.

-CryptoLutheran

pescador · Dec 23, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Great responses thanks.

Frankly I think the enemy of our souls is trying to bind up folks in false judgement and in so doing bring division into the body.

We have just started to decorate our tree for the 36th time during our marriage.

We have quite some family tradition doing this - fruit mince pies, grape juice, celebrating the love come down to earth together.

Sounds nice Carl! Merry Christmas to you and yours, my brother in Christ!

Hazelelponi · Dec 23, 2020

Vanellus said:
I recently watched an interesting programme about how Charles Dickens was the man who invented what we now know as the traditional Christmas, mostly through his famous novella: A Christmas Carol.
In that story shops are open on Christmas Day. Newspapers were sold on Christmas Day. The programme's narrator observed that the London Times had no mention of the word "Christmas" on Christmas Day in 1843, nor had it done for the last 25 years.

Now that doesn't make Christmas pagan or anti-Christian but it does show that Christians and non-Christians alike managed to live without the idea of a traditional Christmas for many centuries.

Christmas literally means Christ's mass and was a mass Catholics held on December 25, which was the day they determined was Christ's birth (though without much evidence of it). People back when Catholics held power though, used the day off to drink in excess etc., and socially there was little to no Christ about it.

When the protestants split away from the Catholic church, first of all they didn't hold "mass", and second they saw the celebration of Christ's birth to be a thing not commanded (unlike the Lords supper which was) in Scripture, as well as holding the belief that, that date for Christs birth was likely incorrect to begin with.

When coupling all that with decidedly worldly behavior, and Protestants downright made the celebration illegal in areas they held government seats of power. (England as well as America)

It wasn't until recently that protestants have began celebrating it, and it's still largely a very worldly celebration (even atheists can't resist the celebration of modern capitalism)

My husband and I don't celebrate the holiday, as a result. I dont see much Christian about it even now. But I do wish others well... I'll stick to remembering Christ the way Christ asked us to... and offer warm kindness up to those who do celebrate the day.

Carl Emerson · Dec 23, 2020

Pescador...

Thanks for your greetings - I like your quote from Luther...

Have a great Christmas.

ViaCrucis · Dec 24, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
Christmas literally means Christ's mass and was a mass Catholics held on December 25, which was the day they determined was Christ's birth (though without much evidence of it). People back when Catholics held power though, used the day off to drink in excess etc., and socially there was little to no Christ about it.

When the protestants split away from the Catholic church, first of all they didn't hold "mass", and second they saw the celebration of Christ's birth to be a thing not commanded (unlike the Lords supper which was) in Scripture, as well as holding the belief that, that date for Christs birth was likely incorrect to begin with.

When coupling all that with decidedly worldly behavior, and Protestants downright made the celebration illegal in areas they held government seats of power. (England as well as America)

It wasn't until recently that protestants have began celebrating it, and it's still largely a very worldly celebration (even atheists can't resist the celebration of modern capitalism)

My husband and I don't celebrate the holiday, as a result. I dont see much Christian about it even now. But I do wish others well... I'll stick to remembering Christ the way Christ asked us to... and offer warm kindness up to those who do celebrate the day.

This is really only true of a segment of Protestants. Lutherans have never done away with the Mass, and we have always celebrated the Liturgical year with full solemnity.

-CryptoLutheran

mama2one · Dec 24, 2020

we have 3 trees up, lol
my fav is decorated with angels & musical ornaments

around here, there's more outside decorations than usual
many Nativity scenes, also

1watchman · Dec 24, 2020

It is never good to try to apply OT verses to the NT, except ref. to our God. Jer. 10 speaks of heathen worships in general. Today one who is not a "born again" believer in Jesus Christ often worships many things in the world.

The tree use at Christmas time has the tradition from many years back by farm people who brought in a tree and placed a Star on top, with colored lights (sometimes even candles which was dangerous); and used many streamers hanging down to show the light shining down on the baby type as was in the Manger in Bethlehem. My grandparents did!
I don't think that is so bad, unless a bunch of trinkets replace the streamers and especially the Star.

Christmas trees?

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