20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

sovereigngrace said:

Your pattern is to dismiss any presence tense Scripture that interferes with what you have been taught. There is no consistency in your hermeneutics.

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Tense is irrelevant, the issue is whether what is prophesied has occurred or not. Revelation 20 has not.
It is the AMil belief that has to resort to flights of fantasy and scriptural semantics, to make their doctrine work.

sovereigngrace said:

The devil overwhelmingly controlled the Gentile nations.

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Look around you - Satan still does. He is restrained for now, but we are told that this restraint will be removed for a time during the end times.
2 Thessalonians 2:5-8

sovereigngrace said:

... but you admitted that the first resurrection has already occurred. We must therefore be in the millennium/Satan's little season.

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No I did not. The first resurrection is not a when. It is a type. Two births, two deaths. Bodily and spirit form. First death and first resurrection is bodily. Second birth and second death is of the spirit. Those at the cross had a bodily resurrection, and ever since. The second birth of the spirit is glorification or eternal damnation. You do not even know your own proof text.....

Revelation 20:4 is a first type: bodily. No spirit and no glorification. Just a body and free of sin, so incorruptible. They will not die, not even by the second death. We are not told if they will ever be glorified. So we do not even need to know that one way or the other. If we did need to know, John would have told us in Revelation 20.

sovereigngrace said:

Satan had to be dominated, overcome and then restricted in order that the darkened nations could be enlightened and consequently liberated.

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You really put Satan above sin? Sin is what blinds us from the truth. Are you not Calvinist Reformed?

keras said:

A lot of Bible prophecy is Written in the present tense. That is because of the surety of it's fulfillment.
So that is no reason to say it has happened, or is happening now. In fact, that idea; the AMIL theory, is so far out and beyond reality, that belief in Amillinarisim is in the realms of comic book fantasy.

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When someone is unable to support their own doctrine clearly, which you have proven repeatedly that you can't, then they resort to insults because that's all they have left.

Please tell me in detail how you interpret the following passage. I'm sure you can show clearly how it supports your doctrine since you are such a smart guy.

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

sovereigngrace said:

Please address Scripture above that proves the Amil position in regard to the binding of Satan 2000 years ago.

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The Bible is clear: Satan is restrained now, not bound, until Jesus Returns.
1 Peter 5:8-9 proves it.

Spiritual Jew said:

When someone is unable to support their own doctrine clearly, which you have proven repeatedly that you can't, then they resort to insults because that's all they have left.

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Because the idea of AMill relies on the virtual rejection of the 20th chapter of Revelation, it is you who is on the back foot and who seems unable to prove your belief.
Insults? Just like the idea of being 'raptured to heaven; Amill is a fantasy, an unbiblical notion made up to avoid having to face the prospect of future prophesied disasters.

Spiritual Jew said:

Please tell me in detail how you interpret the following passage. I'm sure you can show clearly how it supports your doctrine since you are such a smart guy.

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2 Peter 3:1-13 is, in a nutshell, the sequence of events from now until the end of the Millennium.
It isn't me who is smart; it is the Bible Prophets. I just promote their truths.

keras said:

The Bible is clear: Satan is restrained now, not bound, until Jesus Returns.
1 Peter 5:8-9 proves it.

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What this proves is that you don't understand what Jesus did to Satan when He came and you don't understand that before He came the Gentile nations were in complete darkness and were "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" (Eph 2:12).

After Christ came the light of the gospel went to the Gentile nations resulting in millions of people being saved. Satan could do nothing to stop that. You have so little discernment that you can't even recognize that the binding of Satan is talked about in more than just Revelation 20.

How do you interpret this passage:

Matthew 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

In this passage who is the one who went into a strong man's house to bind the strong man and spoil his goods and his house and who is the strong man? What are the goods that were spoiled and what does the strong man's house represent? I'm sure you will have no trouble answering these questions since you clearly have all the answers.

How do you interpret this passage:

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

How do you interpret this passage:

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Because the idea of AMill relies on the virtual rejection of the 20th chapter of Revelation

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Nonsense. Amil does not reject Revelation 20 at all. It rejects your false interpretation of it.

it is you who is on the back foot and who seems unable to prove your belief.

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I have broken down many passages to show how I interpret them and why I believe they support my view. Have you done that? No. You're just all opinion and no scriptural support.

Insults? Just like the idea of being 'raptured to heaven; Amill is a fantasy, an unbiblical notion made up to avoid having to face the prospect of future prophesied disasters.

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Your whole doctrine is a fantasy you created in your own imagination. You have no discernment to tell the difference between what is literal and what is figurative.

2 Peter 3:1-13 is, in a nutshell, the sequence of events from now until the end of the Millennium.
It isn't me who is smart; it is the Bible Prophets. I just promote their truths.

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If you are so sure about that then why are you afraid to take on the challenge of showing me in detail how you interpret that passage? It's pretty straightforward, so it shouldn't be a problem for you. Are you not confident enough in your view to do that and show me how it should be interpreted?

Spiritual Jew said:

If you are so sure about that then why are you afraid to take on the challenge of showing me in detail how you interpret that passage? It's pretty straightforward, so it shouldn't be a problem for you. Are you not confident enough in your view to do that and show me how it should be interpreted?

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2 Peter 3:3-4 In the last days, scoffers will come – scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say: Where is this ‘coming’ He promised? Our fathers have been laid to rest, but still everything goes on as it always has done.
This is a question posed by sceptics, put so as to ridicule, by those who have not entered into the experience of believing in and trusting the Lord Jesus.

We Christian believers may well ask; Why does Jesus delay His Return? We await His coming and sometimes get impatient. But we can be confident that this delay is not due to some kind of mix up. God is sovereign; when everything that needs to be accomplished before His Return, is done – then He will come.

2 Peter 3:5-7 When they say this, they forget that God created the universe and the first civilization on earth was destroyed by a great flood. Scripture says that the present heavens and earth are reserved for burning, until the Day of judgement, when the godless will be destroyed.

Atheists, evolutionists and just simply apathetic people, deny or ignore the obvious fact that something does not come out of nothing; there has to be a Creator.

The reality of the Flood is proved by the geological record and ancient writings.


2 Peter 3:8-9 Dear friends, do not forget; in the Lord’s sight, 1 day is like 1000 years. The Lord is not slow in keeping His promises, He is patient. It is not His will that any be lost, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10-13 The Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly. On that Day, the heavens will dissolve with a roar and flames, then the earth and all those in it will be brought to judgement. Since this will happen, you must live holy and dedicated lives, as you look forward to the renewal of the heavens and earth, where justice will be established.

This passage may allude to Revelation 21, at the end of the Millennium and is often thought to relate to the Return of Jesus, but careful study shows it is neither.

There are many prophecies about the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, yet to be fulfilled – which don’t fit this Revelation 21 scenario, or the Return, therefore what Peter is prophesying about is the next event on this earth. The descriptions of the Day of the Lord, are of a soon to happen cleansing of the earth, with earthquakes and fire, which will cleanse the Holy Land and destroy His enemies. Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 30:26, Joel 2:1-11, Deut 32:34-43, Psalms 18:7-15, Isaiah 2:12-22.

This will enable the fulfilment of the many prophecies that say how the Lord’s faithful people will gather in all of the area Promised to their spiritual forefathers, and is the beginning of events leading up to the Return of Jesus Christ in His glory. NOW, we look forward to a renewed [cleansed] heaven and earth and the establishment of justice.

In the new nation of Beulah: Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10, Zechariah 8:1-13, Ezekiel 34:11-16.

2 Peter 3:17-18 So, dear friends, you have been forewarned. Take care that you do not let anyone seduce you with their errors, hold on to your faith. Grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, both now and for eternity! Reference: Revised English Bible. Verses abridged.

Analysis of 2 Peter 3:10 The Day of the Lord will come like a thief. On that Day, the heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound, the elements will be dissolved in flames and the earth with all that is in it will be brought to judgement.

Is this verse about the Return of Jesus? No, for the following reasons:

1/ Day of the Lord – His Return is not called that in Revelation 19 or Matthew 24.

2/ Like a thief – After the ‘abomination of desolation is placed into the 3rd Temple, we are given 3 specific time periods – 3½ years, or 42 months, or 1260 days. This will allow an exact calculation of His Return, at that time.

3/ The Heavens disappear and the elements dissolve - As He will Return ‘on the clouds”, it is rather difficult to imagine this happening at that time.

4/ All the earth judged - Jesus will destroy the armies of the Anti Christ and He will divide the remaining nations. [the sheep and goat judgement] But the final judgement of all people, alive and dead, is at the end of the Millennium.


Is it the Great white Throne judgement? To happen at the end of the Millennium period.

1/ Day of the Lord – not described as such in Revelation 20-21 or Daniel 7:9-10.

2/Like a thief– Jesus will have reigned on earth for 1000 years.

3/ The heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound – The earth and heavens flee.

4/ The elements will be dissolved in flames – Only the Lake of fire is mentioned in Rev., not a fire judgement of all mankind.

5/ The earth and all that is in it, judged – All those that are alive at that time, not the dead, as in Revelation 20:12. Note – the KJV says; the earth and all its works.

What this verse does fit, is the next prophesied event – the Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 34:5, Hebrews 10:27, Malachi 4:1, Isaiah 29:5-6, Deuteronomy 32:41-43.

1/ The Day of the Lord – This is mentioned many times, always in conjunction with a terrible judgement against His enemies, by fire and sword.

2/ Like a thief – Yes, this will certainly be an unexpected event.

3/ The heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound - Paralleled by Revelation 6:14 and Isaiah 34:4 ‘the sky rolled up like a scroll’. Description of what will happen to the sky when a huge coronal mass ejection hits the earth.

4/ The elements dissolved in flames - Many prophecies say how the earth will be devastated: the land burnt clean, whole cities just heaps of white ash, etc.

5/ The earth and all those in it, judged - This Day will be a worldwide event. Isaiah 66:15-17 The Lord is coming in fire, like a whirlwind, He will judge with fire. His sword will test mankind, many will be slain by Him.

Haggai 2:6-7 & 21-22 The Lord says: In a little while from now, I shall shake the heavens and the earth, I will shake all the nations, their treasure will come to Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:26-29 [In ancient times]His voice shook the earth and now He has promised ‘Once again, I shall shake the earth and the heavens’. The words ‘once again’ point to the removal of created things, of all that is shaken, so that what cannot be shaken, may remain. The Kingdom we are given is unshakeable, let us, therefore give thanks to God for it and worship Him with reverence and awe – for our God is a devouring fire.

sovereigngrace said:

The Holy Spirit then assures the last days elect that their lot is not wrath or destruction. They experience the new heavens and new earth at His appearing.

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We have good descriptions of what happens when Jesus Returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords; Revelation 19:11-21

Then in Revelation 20:1-4a, Satan will be chained up and there will be a Judgment of the nations, as stated in Matthew 25:31-33.
Then in Revelation 20:4b-6, those people who were martyred during the reign of the 'beast', Revelation 13:5-8, will be brought back to life.
Note; this is NOT to immortality, as they may die again, but as verse 6 says; over them their second death has no power. Meaning; because their names are Written in the Book of Life, their immortality is assured.

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years is ended, Satan will be released for a short time and he will seduce many people to attack Jesus, but God will send fire from heaven, that will instantly cremate them all.
This verse is absolute proof of the Millennium, the final 1000 years of God's Plan for mankind.
Only AFTER that, will the New heavens and the new earth appear.

keras said:

2 Peter 3:3-4 In the last days, scoffers will come – scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say: Where is this ‘coming’ He promised? Our fathers have been laid to rest, but still everything goes on as it always has done.
This is a question posed by sceptics, put so as to ridicule, by those who have not entered into the experience of believing in and trusting the Lord Jesus.

We Christian believers may well ask; Why does Jesus delay His Return? We await His coming and sometimes get impatient. But we can be confident that this delay is not due to some kind of mix up. God is sovereign; when everything that needs to be accomplished before His Return, is done – then He will come.

2 Peter 3:5-7 When they say this, they forget that God created the universe and the first civilization on earth was destroyed by a great flood. Scripture says that the present heavens and earth are reserved for burning, until the Day of judgement, when the godless will be destroyed.

Atheists, evolutionists and just simply apathetic people, deny or ignore the obvious fact that something does not come out of nothing; there has to be a Creator.

The reality of the Flood is proved by the geological record and ancient writings.


2 Peter 3:8-9 Dear friends, do not forget; in the Lord’s sight, 1 day is like 1000 years. The Lord is not slow in keeping His promises, He is patient. It is not His will that any be lost, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10-13 The Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly. On that Day, the heavens will dissolve with a roar and flames, then the earth and all those in it will be brought to judgement. Since this will happen, you must live holy and dedicated lives, as you look forward to the renewal of the heavens and earth, where justice will be established.

This passage may allude to Revelation 21, at the end of the Millennium and is often thought to relate to the Return of Jesus, but careful study shows it is neither.

There are many prophecies about the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, yet to be fulfilled – which don’t fit this Revelation 21 scenario, or the Return, therefore what Peter is prophesying about is the next event on this earth. The descriptions of the Day of the Lord, are of a soon to happen cleansing of the earth, with earthquakes and fire, which will cleanse the Holy Land and destroy His enemies. Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 30:26, Joel 2:1-11, Deut 32:34-43, Psalms 18:7-15, Isaiah 2:12-22.

This will enable the fulfilment of the many prophecies that say how the Lord’s faithful people will gather in all of the area Promised to their spiritual forefathers, and is the beginning of events leading up to the Return of Jesus Christ in His glory. NOW, we look forward to a renewed [cleansed] heaven and earth and the establishment of justice.

In the new nation of Beulah: Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10, Zechariah 8:1-13, Ezekiel 34:11-16.

2 Peter 3:17-18 So, dear friends, you have been forewarned. Take care that you do not let anyone seduce you with their errors, hold on to your faith. Grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, both now and for eternity! Reference: Revised English Bible. Verses abridged.

Analysis of 2 Peter 3:10 The Day of the Lord will come like a thief. On that Day, the heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound, the elements will be dissolved in flames and the earth with all that is in it will be brought to judgement.

Is this verse about the Return of Jesus? No, for the following reasons:

1/ Day of the Lord – His Return is not called that in Revelation 19 or Matthew 24.

2/ Like a thief – After the ‘abomination of desolation is placed into the 3rd Temple, we are given 3 specific time periods – 3½ years, or 42 months, or 1260 days. This will allow an exact calculation of His Return, at that time.

3/ The Heavens disappear and the elements dissolve - As He will Return ‘on the clouds”, it is rather difficult to imagine this happening at that time.

4/ All the earth judged - Jesus will destroy the armies of the Anti Christ and He will divide the remaining nations. [the sheep and goat judgement] But the final judgement of all people, alive and dead, is at the end of the Millennium.


Is it the Great white Throne judgement? To happen at the end of the Millennium period.

1/ Day of the Lord – not described as such in Revelation 20-21 or Daniel 7:9-10.

2/Like a thief– Jesus will have reigned on earth for 1000 years.

3/ The heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound – The earth and heavens flee.

4/ The elements will be dissolved in flames – Only the Lake of fire is mentioned in Rev., not a fire judgement of all mankind.

5/ The earth and all that is in it, judged – All those that are alive at that time, not the dead, as in Revelation 20:12. Note – the KJV says; the earth and all its works.

What this verse does fit, is the next prophesied event – the Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 34:5, Hebrews 10:27, Malachi 4:1, Isaiah 29:5-6, Deuteronomy 32:41-43.

1/ The Day of the Lord – This is mentioned many times, always in conjunction with a terrible judgement against His enemies, by fire and sword.

2/ Like a thief – Yes, this will certainly be an unexpected event.

3/ The heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound - Paralleled by Revelation 6:14 and Isaiah 34:4 ‘the sky rolled up like a scroll’. Description of what will happen to the sky when a huge coronal mass ejection hits the earth.

4/ The elements dissolved in flames - Many prophecies say how the earth will be devastated: the land burnt clean, whole cities just heaps of white ash, etc.

5/ The earth and all those in it, judged - This Day will be a worldwide event. Isaiah 66:15-17 The Lord is coming in fire, like a whirlwind, He will judge with fire. His sword will test mankind, many will be slain by Him.

Haggai 2:6-7 & 21-22 The Lord says: In a little while from now, I shall shake the heavens and the earth, I will shake all the nations, their treasure will come to Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:26-29 [In ancient times]His voice shook the earth and now He has promised ‘Once again, I shall shake the earth and the heavens’. The words ‘once again’ point to the removal of created things, of all that is shaken, so that what cannot be shaken, may remain. The Kingdom we are given is unshakeable, let us, therefore give thanks to God for it and worship Him with reverence and awe – for our God is a devouring fire.

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You made a convoluted mess out of a straightforward passage. You seem to have lost sight of those who in the last days will scoff at the promise of His second coming. What about them? You don't think Jesus will take vengeance on them when He returns? You don't think the fire coming down upon the earth is reserved for them and "all who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thess 1:7-8)?

Immediately after verse 4, you seem to have completely forgotten that the whole passage centers around the promise of His second coming. You make it all about 1000+ years after His second coming instead. You take the whole passage out of context by doing that.

Why did Peter say in 2 Peter 3:13 " Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.". What promise was he referring to there? The promise of Christ's coming, of course. It is according to His coming that we look forward to new heavens and a new earth. But, you somehow have the new heavens and new earth appearing 1000+ years after His second coming. That is not at all what Peter taught.

You are the one whose doctrine is a fantasy out of a comic book. You refuse to acknowledge straightforward passages like this one which clearly say that according to the promise of His coming the heavens and earth are reserved for fire that will come down upon the wicked like those who scoff at His coming. If the fire doesn't come down until 1000+ years later then what was the point of even mentioning these scoffers? Your doctrine lets them off the hook. No, they will be among those who want the mountains and the rocks to fall on them when He comes instead of facing His wrath.

The following passage also shows that the fire will come down on those scoffers at His return, not 1000+ years later:

2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Not only does this passage show Christ "in flaming fire taking vengeance on" His enemies who are alive when He returns, but it also shows that is when they "will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord". This shows that the wicked will be cast into the lake of fire on the day He returns. Just as portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46.

You do not use scripture to interpret scripture. You take scripture and randomly throw it into a pile and randomly put it all together into a convoluted puzzle that no one can understand except you. Your fantasyland picture of how endtimes events will play out exists only in your mind and not in scripture.

Spiritual Jew said:

The following passage also shows that the fire will come down on those scoffers at His return, not 1000+ years later:

2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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That prophecy refers to the next prophesied event; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire from the sun.
Proved by how it will wipe out His enemies, Psalms 63, Psalms 1:4-6, and then soon after it, His faithful people, all then that believe, will be gathered and Jesus will reveal Himself to them; Revelation 14:1
NOT to all the world as stated in Revelation 1:7, which will happen about 10 years later.

Spiritual Jew said:

You do not use scripture to interpret scripture. You take scripture and randomly throw it into a pile and randomly put it all together into a convoluted puzzle that no one can understand except you.

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My posts are not random or unsupported, I used 30 verses to prove my points. You don't, just the one passage in 2 Thess, which I show you have wrongly placed at the Return.

keras said:

That prophecy refers to the next prophesied event; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire from the sun.

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Fire from the sun? Talk about fantasy. You have your own private interpretations. You don't see 2 Thess 1:7-10 as referring to the second coming of Christ?

Proved by how it will wipe out His enemies, Psalms 63, Psalms 1:4-6, and then soon after it, His faithful people, all then that believe, will be gathered and Jesus will reveal Himself to them; Revelation 14:1

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How would any mortal people survive that? That's pure fantasy.

NOT to all the world as stated in Revelation 1:7, which will happen about 10 years later.

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10 years later? Where are you getting that fantasy from? Why do you try to set dates when Paul said there's no reason to concern ourselves with the times and the seasons (1 Thess 5:1)?

My posts are not random or unsupported, I used 30 verses to prove my points. You don't, just the one passage in 2 Thess, which I show you have wrongly placed at the Return.

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Taking 30 verses out of context does nothing to support your fantasy doctrine.

sovereigngrace said:

Premillers do not quote Scripture, they reference it, because the text does not say what they have been taught. 2 Peter 3:3-15 tells us: “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.”

We glean a lot of helpful detail here relating to what happens to the creature and creation when Jesus comes, and what immediately follows. If we are able to divorce ourselves from what we have been taught, we are looking at a very climactic picture.

• Unquestionably, the focus of this message is directed to the end-time-cynics who question God.
• These fools question God keeping His “promise.” What promise? It is “the promise of his coming.”
• The scorn and derision of these foolish last days scoffers and mockers are directed specifically towards the reality and occurrence of Christ’s coming.
• It is not in any way concentrated upon a supposed group of ‘millennial scoffers’ 1,000 years later. If this is supposed to be a collection of ‘millennial scoffers’ 1,000 years after the second coming, why would they be saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation”? Such a notion is a complete absurdity as Christ’s coming (or parousia) is long past.
• This text shows us that today is the only day of salvation. Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). Romans 2:4 reaffirms that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming.
• The actual wrath described by the Holy Spirit comes suddenly and unexpectedly upon these foolish last days scoffers and mockers. There is no escape. They are the recipients of total destruction.
• We also see in this reading that “the day of the Lord will arrive (or heko) as a thief in the night; in the which (en heé)” or literally translated “in which” (the word “the” being absent from the original). The detail described arrives with Jesus.
• What happens to creation when Jesus arrives? 1. The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise. 2. The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’, 3. The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. 4. The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly. The Premillennialist claims to be a literalist, so there is no spiritualization that can explain this away. It is water-tight.
• The description of the destruction could not be more comprehensive. It is undoubtedly the end. It involves wholesale and unavoidable annihilation for the wicked. It embraces the full gamut of fallen creation.
• What is this replaced with? A future millennium filled with sin and sinners, crying and dying? No. The Holy Spirit tells us that it the “new heavens and a new earth” that follows Christ’s return.
• The arrival of the “new heavens and a new earth” are here significantly connected to “his promise.”
• The Holy Spirit then assures the last days elect that their lot is not wrath or destruction. They experience the new heavens and new earth at His appearing.

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What you portray here is a Biblical cynic who avoids the millennium for instant destruction. Since Christ has not ruled on earth in a physical Kingdom for 1000 years, and it has been that way since Adam, it can never happen, and thus only destruction. Ignorant of God's grace and love, wanting instant destruction. God is longsuffering and still has 1000 years of perfection for His creation, before some humans wisk it away in a climactic destruction. Peter leaves out many details. The church is not even accounted for, after the Day of the Lord, so according to Peter the church cannot exist after this Day either. The church is to be prepared up to that Day. No where does Peter say we go through that day. God on the throne and the Lamb come to earth. This is the 6th Seal. This is separate from the Trumpets, where God is now dealing directly with the vineyard and not the church, the stewards of the vineyard. Do you think the faithful are given the same judgment, eternal damnation as the unfaithful by going through the same judgment with them?

Spiritual Jew said:

What this proves is that you don't understand what Jesus did to Satan when He came and you don't understand that before He came the Gentile nations were in complete darkness and were "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" (Eph 2:12).

After Christ came the light of the gospel went to the Gentile nations resulting in millions of people being saved. Satan could do nothing to stop that. You have so little discernment that you can't even recognize that the binding of Satan is talked about in more than just Revelation 20.

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Even the Jews were in spiritual darkness for at least 483 years. They ignored the prophets and were not even prepared when their Messiah came. Satan being the cause is not a given. The cause was God's chosen people enjoyed sin more than obeying God.

Spiritual Jew said:

Not only does this passage show Christ "in flaming fire taking vengeance on" His enemies who are alive when He returns, but it also shows that is when they "will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord". This shows that the wicked will be cast into the lake of fire on the day He returns. Just as portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46.

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This does not describe the Lake of Fire. This is still sheol, the place of the dead. There is no indication the lake of fire has been sheol, because after the 1000 years, both Death and sheol are cast into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 6:7-8 introduces Death for the first time and sheol is still there as well.

7 When he broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living being say, “Go!”
8 I looked, and there in front of me was a pallid, sickly-looking horse. Its rider’s name was Death, and Sh’ol followed behind him. They were given authority to kill one-quarter of the world by war, by famine, by plagues and with the wild animals of the earth.

This is the last event on earth before the Second Coming. The goats are only sent to sheol, not the lake of fire. Sheol is the place prepared for the devil and his angels back at the time of the Flood, Peter states most are ignorant of, 2 Peter 3.

Timtofly said:

This does not describe the Lake of Fire. This is still sheol, the place of the dead. There is no indication the lake of fire has been sheol, because after the 1000 years, both Death and sheol are cast into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 6:7-8 introduces Death for the first time and sheol is still there as well.

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You need to actually look at the passage referenced (Matthew 25:31-46) before responding next time. It's clear that you did not look at the passage carefully.

Here is what Jesus said in Matthew 25:41,46 to the "goats" (unbelievers) on His left hand:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels...46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

How is the above any different from this:

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever...15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

These passages are clearly referring to the same event. What is the place of "everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"? Revelation 20:10-15 makes it clear that it is the lake of fire because that is where the devil will be cast into for eternity as well as those whose names are "not found written in the book of life".

Timtofly said:

What you portray here is a Biblical cynic who avoids the millennium for instant destruction. Since Christ has not ruled on earth in a physical Kingdom for 1000 years, and it has been that way since Adam, it can never happen, and thus only destruction. Ignorant of God's grace and love, wanting instant destruction. God is longsuffering and still has 1000 years of perfection for His creation, before some humans wisk it away in a climactic destruction. Peter leaves out many details. The church is not even accounted for, after the Day of the Lord, so according to Peter the church cannot exist after this Day either. The church is to be prepared up to that Day. No where does Peter say we go through that day. God on the throne and the Lamb come to earth. This is the 6th Seal. This is separate from the Trumpets, where God is now dealing directly with the vineyard and not the church, the stewards of the vineyard. Do you think the faithful are given the same judgment, eternal damnation as the unfaithful by going through the same judgment with them?

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He criticized you for not quoting scripture and showing how it supports your view and what do you do? You respond with nothing but your own words without quoting any scripture to support your words. This shows that you are incapable of showing how scripture supports your view. Which makes sense because it doesn't. No wonder you don't quote scripture in support of what you're saying. You know that if you actually quoted it, it would be clear that it doesn't support your interpretations of it.