He is the way
Well-Known Member
Because of the letter Brigham Young sent to tell them to let them pass in peace. The letter arrived too late. There is NO evidence that Brigham Young ordered the massacre.
Upvote
0
LDS Mountain Meadows Massacre: John D. Lee was a Scapegoat!
- Thread starter Rescued One
- Start date
He is the way
Well-Known Member
And as I said Brigham Young killed no one, but we know that sin does kill:
(New Testament | Romans 6:15 - 16)
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Jesus taught that we should be willing to get rid of that which offends could that also include our heart?:
(New Testament | Matthew 18:8 - 9)
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Upvote
0
According to the accounts of those who went to trial, several members of the train allegedly threatened violence if the locals didn't provide them supply, including threats to send a messenger to California with a false report in order to get the Army coming up from there.
Additionally, the local Paiutes believed that the members of the train had deliberately poisoned them after a bizarre illness swept through them shortly after they'd traded with the train, giving them a small amount of supplies in exchange for cattle.
Couple this with the general panic going on due to Johnston's Army (Buchanan having never sent notice of intent, let alone an investigator) and 20+ years of anti-Mormon violence that many of the militia members had seen first-hand, and they falsely regarded the adults in the wagon train as a threat.
Read up on the My Lai Massacre from the Vietnam War, and you'll see a darkly similar line of reasoning at play.
Upvote
0
To be specific, whenever Young gave official orders of this nature, he'd press the hand-written order into one of a series of books with blank pages, and the still-wet ink would transfer onto the blank page.
The book from that time period has, from what I understand, been recovered, and the order is in its proper chronological place.
Young would have had to replicate every last order copied in that book to create a fake log book so as to fake the letter having been written and sent.
Upvote
0
- Dec 12, 2002
- 35,521
- 6,402
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
Brigham Young was NOT of God!
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed [Mormons] mixes his blood with the seed of Cain [Negroes] the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so.
Brigham Young
Journal of Discourses
Volume 10, p. 110
Upvote
0
He is the way
Well-Known Member
You have been told that the Journal of Discourses is not scripture yet you still quote it as if it was. That being said the Bible states this:
(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 7:2 - 4)
2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
Upvote
0
- Dec 12, 2002
- 35,521
- 6,402
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
Brigham Young was guilty of all:
Galatians 5 (ESV)
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Did Jesus advocate suicide or repentance?
Upvote
0
- Dec 12, 2002
- 35,521
- 6,402
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
You know that the Old Covenant was replaced with the New Covenant yet you keep quoting the Old (out of context). Did Brigham Young think it was okay to kill Mormons or ex-Mormons if they married Cain's posterity? Were African-Americans descendants of Cain?
Your excuse that the JoD is not scripture is a red herring. The writings of your leaders, as well as quote after quote of other non-scripture have been published in official lesson manuals for years upon years. I haven't been hiding in a cave. Thank you.
Upvote
0
- Dec 12, 2002
- 35,521
- 6,402
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
Aftermath and the distribution of spoil[edit]
The Paiutes received a portion of the Baker-Fancher party's significant livestock holdings as compensation for their part in the massacre.[20] Many of the murdered emigrants' other belongings (including blood stained and bullet-riddled clothing stripped from the victims' corpses) were brought to Cedar City and stored in the cellar of the Cedar City LDS tithing office as "property taken at the siege of Sebastopol."[21] There are conflicting accounts as to whether these items were auctioned off or simply taken by members of the local population. Some of the surviving children subsequently claimed to have seen Mormons wearing their dead parents' clothing and jewelry.[22]
In 1859, two years after the massacre, Brevet Major James Henry Carleton arrived in the area "to bury the bones of the victims of that terrible massacre". "I saw several bones of what must have been very small children. Dr. Brewer says from what he saw he thinks some infants were butchered. The mothers doubtless had these in their arms, and the same shot or blow may have deprived both of life." "Hamblin himself showed Sergeant Fritz of my party a spot on the right-hand side of the road where had partially covered up a great many of the bones."[23]
Carleton later said it was "a sight which can never be forgotten." After gathering up the skulls and bones of those who had died, Carleton's troops buried them and erected a rock cairn inscribed with the words, Here 120 men, women, and children were massacred in cold blood early in September, 1857. They were from Arkansas, along with a cross bearing the words, Vengeance is mine. I will repay, saith the Lord. According to legend, on the Fourth anniversary of the massacre, Brigham Young himself came upon the monument and ordered it to be torn down. "Vengeance is mine" he said to have muttered "and I have taken a little".[24]
Meanwhile, Forney and Governor Cummings directed Hamblin and Carleton to gather up the surviving children from local families and transport them to Salt Lake City, after which they were united with extended family members in Arkansas and other states.[25] Several Mormon families claimed and received financial compensation from the federal government for the children's care and even protested that the amounts paid were insufficient although the conditions some of the children lived under were severely criticized.[26]
Carleton issued a scathing report to the United States Congress, blaming local and senior church leaders for the massacre, however years later only Lee was charged with murder for his involvement. Lee's first trial ended in a mistrial but he was convicted on re-trial and executed by firing squad at Mountain Meadows.
The causes and circumstances of the Mountain Meadows Massacre remain contested and highly controversial. Although there is no evidence that Brigham Young ordered or condoned the massacre, the involvement of various church officials in both the murders and concealing evidence in their aftermath is still questioned.[13] Moreover, while by all accounts Native American Paiutes were present, historical reports of their numbers and the details of their participation are contradictory.[citation needed]
Killings and aftermath of the Mountain Meadows Massacre - Wikipedia
The Paiutes received a portion of the Baker-Fancher party's significant livestock holdings as compensation for their part in the massacre.[20] Many of the murdered emigrants' other belongings (including blood stained and bullet-riddled clothing stripped from the victims' corpses) were brought to Cedar City and stored in the cellar of the Cedar City LDS tithing office as "property taken at the siege of Sebastopol."[21] There are conflicting accounts as to whether these items were auctioned off or simply taken by members of the local population. Some of the surviving children subsequently claimed to have seen Mormons wearing their dead parents' clothing and jewelry.[22]
In 1859, two years after the massacre, Brevet Major James Henry Carleton arrived in the area "to bury the bones of the victims of that terrible massacre". "I saw several bones of what must have been very small children. Dr. Brewer says from what he saw he thinks some infants were butchered. The mothers doubtless had these in their arms, and the same shot or blow may have deprived both of life." "Hamblin himself showed Sergeant Fritz of my party a spot on the right-hand side of the road where had partially covered up a great many of the bones."[23]
Carleton later said it was "a sight which can never be forgotten." After gathering up the skulls and bones of those who had died, Carleton's troops buried them and erected a rock cairn inscribed with the words, Here 120 men, women, and children were massacred in cold blood early in September, 1857. They were from Arkansas, along with a cross bearing the words, Vengeance is mine. I will repay, saith the Lord. According to legend, on the Fourth anniversary of the massacre, Brigham Young himself came upon the monument and ordered it to be torn down. "Vengeance is mine" he said to have muttered "and I have taken a little".[24]
Meanwhile, Forney and Governor Cummings directed Hamblin and Carleton to gather up the surviving children from local families and transport them to Salt Lake City, after which they were united with extended family members in Arkansas and other states.[25] Several Mormon families claimed and received financial compensation from the federal government for the children's care and even protested that the amounts paid were insufficient although the conditions some of the children lived under were severely criticized.[26]
Carleton issued a scathing report to the United States Congress, blaming local and senior church leaders for the massacre, however years later only Lee was charged with murder for his involvement. Lee's first trial ended in a mistrial but he was convicted on re-trial and executed by firing squad at Mountain Meadows.
The causes and circumstances of the Mountain Meadows Massacre remain contested and highly controversial. Although there is no evidence that Brigham Young ordered or condoned the massacre, the involvement of various church officials in both the murders and concealing evidence in their aftermath is still questioned.[13] Moreover, while by all accounts Native American Paiutes were present, historical reports of their numbers and the details of their participation are contradictory.[citation needed]
Killings and aftermath of the Mountain Meadows Massacre - Wikipedia
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
He is the way
Well-Known Member
Upvote
0
He is the way
Well-Known Member
Brigham Young did not kill anyone. God said that interbreeding was wrong. Apparently you believe that the Bible is not of God.
Upvote
0
He is the way
Well-Known Member
Although there is no evidence that Brigham Young ordered or condoned the massacre, the involvement of various church officials in both the murders and concealing evidence in their aftermath is still questioned.
I would not want to be part of those who were guilty.
Upvote
0
- Dec 12, 2002
- 35,521
- 6,402
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
More red herrings!!! Those verses are also out of context! You are repeating the same mistakes.
2 Corinthians 6 (NIV)
14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?
It isn't wrong for a German to marry a Dane. And you don't what color skin a Perizzite or the Jew had. God's commnand was about the believer marrying a non-believer. Is it wrong for a light-skinned Mormon to marry a dark-skinned Mormon?
Deuteronomy 7
1 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God.The Lord
your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.
We all bleed the same color!!!
I am 100% anti-racism!
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Dec 12, 2002
- 35,521
- 6,402
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
True!
John 8
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Upvote
0
- Dec 12, 2002
- 35,521
- 6,402
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
Young's alibi begs several questions: Why did Governor Young have to send orders to the south not to 'interfere' with the emigrants? As historian David White concluded, Young's shrewd reply appears calculated to correct a policy gone wrong if it arrived in time and to cover his tracks if received too late. Whatever the letter's intent, it carried a hidden but clear message: make sure the Mormons could blame whatever happened on the Indians.
Mountain Meadows Massacre
Upvote
0
He is the way
Well-Known Member
I too am anti-racism. Interracial marriage is no longer taboo. Times have changed, and the law has also changed.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
He is the way
Well-Known Member
There is more proof that those people acted on their own. They even had secret meetings. It seems to me that Brigham Young got wind of what was happening and tried to stop it.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
