You said -ist, with a very strong implication you were specifically referring to its use in "atheist" (which predates scientific usage of the suffix), was a scientific rip off. Your analogy is very poor.
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What is the Falsification for Abiogenesis and Theory of Evolution?
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No, its from the mouth of the same evolutionist when they say evolution is the origin of man.
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Warden_of_the_Storm
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So... after 22 pages, I think we can safely say that there is no falsification of evolution or abiogenesis on this thread.
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What I was attempting to express (maybe not so well) is that the process of classification of people which assumes them as being motivated by any default, fixed beliefs (or disbeliefs), in modern times, is not reflective of the demonstrable human ability of altering motivations on a basis other than fixed beliefs. In fact, classifying people that way and denoting those 'classes' by using the '-ist' suffix, sets up the path towards nothing more than discrimination.
The purpose of discrimination on the basis of fixed beliefs is certainly not the purpose behind science's classification system, and so any attempts to imply equivalence between the two, should encounter serious objectively based evidence counter argument. (I think we might agree on this?)
I find acceptance of the term of 'atheist' tantamount to the acceptance of humans being nothing more than what they believe, with 'atheism' simply being denial of some other assumed, preferred belief (ie: 'theism'). I understand and accept some atheists try to distinguish atheism from that, by saying it represents an absence of belief, however, this still indulgences a conversation which centers around belief systems.
Any notion which sanctions or certifies any belief system, is where I choose to take my stand.
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Speedwell
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Correct. Each individual scientist gets to decide for himself whether he believes in God or not. The theory of evolution doesn't come into it. The theory itself is the same either way.
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But you need to admit they say that with evolution God is not needed, evolution could do its thing alone, heavy contrast if God planned how our bodies and what our feelings intelligence would be etc.
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.. and yet anyone presenting objective evidence supporting the ToE will still be referred to by the '-ist' suffixed 'Evolution-ist' label, which implies some kind of belief-based motivation for presenting evidence of it (as @NBB continually asserts).
(This is evidence supporting my point presented in my sub-conversation with @Bungle_Bear).
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pitabread
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There is no way for science to determine whether a deity is guiding the process, planned things out, etc. All it can do is report the way things look. And the way things look is that life on Earth (including humans) appears to have evolved.
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Warden_of_the_Storm
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Well, they don't want people who previously declared themselves a non-believer relabeling a believer to get access to the Christians Only sections.
Since I left Christianity, I haven't tried to change my label. I thought that, when I was a believer, one could swap various Christian denominations at will. Therefore, I'm a little surprised that within the non-CO labels that we can't swap from, say, atheist to skeptic.
Ah, well.
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No, "they" don't say that.
Look, I'll tell you something surprising: scientists are humans. Shocking, I know.
humans have multiple aspects. A scientist is a scientist and will speak or write about the science he or she is an expert in. But beside that that human being can express a whole spectrum of opinions about a whole spectrum of subjects: their (non)believe in a deity, the sense of nonsense of Brexit, the value of modern art etc. For these subjects their word is of no more weight than that of any layman.
For example, the late Stephen Jay Gould was an eminent evolutionary biologist and expert in snails. In these two areas he speaks with authority of an expert. But he was also outspoken about politics (he was rather left leaning) and about classical music. He pretended that Bach was the best composer ever -- the fool, everybody knows Haendel was the greatest
).You can now start quoting Richard Dawkins or Laurence Krauss if you like, who, indeed have spoken against believe in gods. But these 2 men
1) don't speak for all the scientists
2) don't speak in their role as scientist, but just as human.
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I understand your view point. An that is why is used in this post What is the Falsification for Abiogenesis and Theory of Evolution? the wording "science minded people". I don't pretend that that's the most elegant way of phrasing it, but it was the best could come with (apart from maybe "empiricist").
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Astrophile
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