LDS The Claim

He is the way · Sep 30, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Believe whatev er you want---scriopture says:

yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die;

Yes John will die but not until Christ comes again. Jesus was NOT wrong:
(New Testament | Mark 9:1)

1 AND he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Jesus was never wrong.

Hrairoo · Sep 30, 2020

He is the way said:
Yes John will die but not until Christ comes again. Jesus was NOT wrong.

Jesus was never wrong.

You say. But then you don't seem to be able to follow the implications of what you're actually saying when you contend that there was a Great Apostasy right after his Apostles died.

I agree that Jesus was never wrong. But then again, I'm not the one saying that his true teachings and gospel was corrupted almost immediately after he left. He also said that the gates of Hell won't overcome his church.

He is the way · Sep 30, 2020

Hrairoo said:
You say. But then you don't seem to be able to follow the implications of what you're actually saying when you contend that there was a Great Apostasy right after his Apostles died.

I agree that Jesus was never wrong. But then again, I'm not the one saying that his true teachings and gospel was corrupted almost immediately after he left. He also said that the gates of Hell won't overcome his church.

The gates of Hell have not prevailed against His church. That being said there have been times when the hearts of the people have turned away from God:

(New Testament | Acts 20:29 - 31)

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
(New Testament | 2 Thessalonians 2:1 - 3)

1 NOW we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

It was not long before politics started to enter the church by the emperor Constantine which brought about the Nicene Creed.

mmksparbud · Sep 30, 2020

He is the way said:
Yes John will die but not until Christ comes again. Jesus was NOT wrong:
(New Testament | Mark 9:1)

1 AND he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Jesus was never wrong.

Then why do you think He is wrong when scripture clearly says Jesus did not say John would not die? Clearly, you only believe Him when it suits your JS narrative. And Jesus must be wrong for not saying John would not die! And why would John need to die when Jesus comes back? He has, according to you, already been changed into a heavenly body. When Jesus returns, the living righteous do not die---they are all changed---translated. Death for them not required!! You obviously do not believe this either:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

You do not believe the word of God---you only believe in a false prophet.

He is the way · Sep 30, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Then why do you think He is wrong when scripture clearly says Jesus did not say John would not die? Clearly, you only believe Him when it suits your JS narrative. And Jesus must be wrong for not saying John would not die! And why would John need to die when Jesus comes back? He has, according to you, already been changed into a heavenly body. When Jesus returns, the living righteous do not die---they are all changed---translated. Death for them not required!! You obviously do not believe this either:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

You do not believe the word of God---you only believe in a false prophet.

Jesus is not wrong. John will have to die in order to be resurrected, he does not have a immortal resurrected body yet. He has a translated body and will be changed (die) in the twinkling of an eye:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:50 - 58)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

mmksparbud · Sep 30, 2020

He is the way said:
Jesus is not wrong. John will have to die in order to be resurrected, he does not have a immortal resurrected body yet. He has a translated body and will be changed (die) in the twinkling of an eye:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:50 - 58)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Did you not read what the bible says?? Do you not know what "we shall not all sleep means?" It means we shall not all die--those righteous who are living at His return will not die! They will be translated. But everyone will have their bodies changed. You need not die in order to be changed. Good grief, my 9 year old nephew understands that! John, unless he is alreasdy dead when Jesus comes, will not need to be resurrected! And he has already taken a translated body according to you guys. Enoch did not die, neither did Elijah---they were translated, which means that they were taken to heaven without seeing death. You all have had your heads buried in JS's lap for so long you can not read and comprehend basic bible language.

He is the way · Sep 30, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Did you not read what the bible says?? Do you not know what "we shall not all sleep means?" It means we shall not all die--those righteous who are living at His return will not die! They will be translated. But everyone will have their bodies changed. You need not die in order to be changed. Good grief, my 9 year old nephew understands that! John, unless he is alreasdy dead when Jesus comes, will not need to be resurrected! And he has already taken a translated body according to you guys. Enoch did not die, neither did Elijah---they were translated, which means that they were taken to heaven without seeing death. You all have had your heads buried in JS's lap for so long you can not read and comprehend basic bible language.

You said: "It means we shall not all die" It means we will ALL die:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:22)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Translated is NOT the same as resurrected.

The Bible is correct about this.

mmksparbud · Sep 30, 2020

He is the way said:
You said: "It means we shall not all die" It means we will ALL die:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:22)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Translated is NOT the same as resurrected.

The Bible is correct about this.

The bible is correct---you just can't read! We shall not all sleep====we shall not all die. This is only talking about when Jesus returns! At His coming the living righteous are translated---meaning, like Enoch and Eljah, they are taken to heaven without seeing death!! How the blazes can you read this and come up with all will die when it clearly says not all will die!

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

--How much clearer do you need it? What are you going to do when He returns and the living righetous do not die but are translated? You gonna pitch a fit and demand Jesus put everyone to sleep? This is the word of God, have some respect for it instead of trying to make JS right---you can't. Translasted means go to heaven without seeing death---resurrected means being brought back to life after death!! Living righteopus are trasnslsated---they are changed into immortality without seeing death. Basic. That one sentence is in plain English and not in the least bit vague---we shall not all die AT THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS. This is talking specifically about those at the 2nd coming, not anyone else!!

He is the way · Sep 30, 2020

mmksparbud said:
The bible is correct---you just can't read! We shall not all sleep====we shall not all die. This is only talking about when Jesus returns! At His coming the living righteous are translated---meaning, like Enoch and Eljah, they are taken to heaven without seeing death!! How the blazes can you read this and come up with all will die when it clearly says not all will die!

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

--How much clearer do you need it? What are you going to do when He returns and the living righetous do not die but are translated? You gonna pitch a fit and demand Jesus put everyone to sleep? This is the word of God, have some respect for it instead of trying to make JS right---you can't. Translasted means go to heaven without seeing death---resurrected means being brought back to life after death!! Living righteopus are trasnslsated---they are changed into immortality without seeing death. Basic. That one sentence is in plain English and not in the least bit vague---we shall not all die AT THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS. This is talking specifically about those at the 2nd coming, not anyone else!!

Yes the Bible did make it perfectly clear:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:22)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

mmksparbud · Sep 30, 2020

He is the way said:
Yes the Bible did make it perfectly clear:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:22)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Again, this passage is talking about at the time that Jesus returns to claim His children and take them home it is specific to that event--called the 2nd coming. It has nothing to do with anything else. At this specific time, Jesus returns, the righteous dead are resurrected (because only the dead can be resurrected) This is also called The 1st resurrection. Do. You. understand. this. concept. of. The. 2nd. coming. of. Jesus? This is totaly specific to this event. It has nothing to do with any other event from the time of Adam and Eve until that event.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

At. This. Time. The. living. righteous. will. be. translated (which. means. taken. to. heaven. without. seeng. death).

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

"We shall not all die." At. that. 2nd. coming. of. Jesus. which. is. the. last. trump.

He is the way · Sep 30, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Again, this passage is talking about at the time that Jesus returns to claim His children and take them home it is specific to that event--called the 2nd coming. It has nothing to do with anything else. At this specific time, Jesus returns, the righteous dead are resurrected (because only the dead can be resurrected) This is also called The 1st resurrection. Do. You. understand. this. concept. of. The. 2nd. coming. of. Jesus? This is totaly specific to this event. It has nothing to do with any other event from the time of Adam and Eve until that event.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

At. This. Time. The. living. righteous. will. be. translated (which. means. taken. to. heaven. without. seeng. death).

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

"We shall not all die." At. that. 2nd. coming. of. Jesus. which. is. the. last. trump.

You said: "(because only the dead can be resurrected)" That is correct. And as I have pointed out everyone will be resurrected:
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:22)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Everyone has to die before they can be resurrected. That being said being translated is NOT the same as being resurrected. A person can be translated without dying. A person MUST die before being resurrected.

mmksparbud · Sep 30, 2020

He is the way said:
You said: "(because only the dead can be resurrected)" That is correct. And as I have pointed out everyone will be resurrected:
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:22)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Everyone has to die before they can be resurrected. That being said being translated is NOT the same as being resurrected. A person can be translated without dying. A person MUST die before being resurrected.

For Pete's sake! The living can not be resurrected!!But they will be changed!! There will be those that are alive when Jesus returns and those will be translated. That means go to heav en without seeing death!

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Those that are alive at the comning of the Lord will not prevent (will not go first)before those that are dead. The dead will be resurrected first. Those those that are alive will go up topgether with those that were resurrected (together). Those that are alive will be translated, they will not die! Why are you not able to comporehend so simple and clear a ststement? Those thsat are living AT HIS 2ND coming will not see death. This event has nothing to do with the verse you keep quoting!!

He is the way · Oct 1, 2020

mmksparbud said:
For Pete's sake! The living can not be resurrected!!But they will be changed!! There will be those that are alive when Jesus returns and those will be translated. That means go to heav en without seeing death!

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Those that are alive at the comning of the Lord will not prevent (will not go first)before those that are dead. The dead will be resurrected first. Those those that are alive will go up topgether with those that were resurrected (together). Those that are alive will be translated, they will not die! Why are you not able to comporehend so simple and clear a ststement? Those thsat are living AT HIS 2ND coming will not see death. This event has nothing to do with the verse you keep quoting!!

You are still getting translation mixed up with resurrection. Elijah was translated, NOT resurrected. Jesus Christ was the FIRST one to be resurrected:

(New Testament | Colossians 1:18)

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
(New Testament | Acts 26:23)

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Even translated beings MUST die before they can be resurrected. Elijah has NOT resurrected, he was translated.

mmksparbud · Oct 1, 2020

He is the way said:
You are still getting translation mixed up with resurrection. Elijah was translated, NOT resurrected. Jesus Christ was the FIRST one to be resurrected:

(New Testament | Colossians 1:18)

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
(New Testament | Acts 26:23)

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Even translated beings MUST die before they can be resurrected. Elijah has NOT resurrected, he was translated.

I never said Elijah was resurrected!! I know the difference. Enoch also translated! It means go to heaven without seeing death!! It's you guys thast can't seem to understand what translation means!! Why are you pretending that I said Elijah was resurrected?? It is the same thing that will happen to all the living righteous at the 2nd coming. They will not see death. The dead in Chjrist will be resurrected at that time.
It is what did not happen to John---you can not be translated and stay on earth for translation means go to heaven without seeing death.

He is the way · Oct 1, 2020

mmksparbud said:
I never said Elijah was resurrected!! I know the difference. Enoch also translated! It means go to heaven without seeing death!! It's you guys thast can't seem to understand what translation means!! Why are you pretending that I said Elijah was resurrected?? It is the same thing that will happen to all the living righteous at the 2nd coming. They will not see death. The dead in Chjrist will be resurrected at that time.
It is what did not happen to John---you can not be translated and stay on earth for translation means go to heaven without seeing death.

Of course a person can stay on earth after they are translated. They can go where ever God wants them to go.

mmksparbud · Oct 1, 2020

He is the way said:
Of course a person can stay on earth after they are translated. They can go where ever God wants them to go.

Obtuse factor much too thick to walk through.

He is the way · Oct 2, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Obtuse factor much too thick to walk through.

People are translated for a reason so they can do God's work where He needs them. They may go to heaven for training and then go back to the earth. They will go where God needs them to go.

mmksparbud · Oct 2, 2020

He is the way said:
People are translated for a reason so they can do God's work where He needs them. They may go to heaven for training and then go back to the earth. They will go where God needs them to go.

Please state the scriptures that say they do the work of angels, for that is what God has angels for. The translated go to heaven to be with God. They have their work for Him there. There is no scripture of anyone that was translated that came back to earth. Elijah and Moses came to be with Jesus, not the diciples, they did not even speak to them. You have nothing to base your assumptiopns on except JS. God does not do the will of JS. And JS certainly did not do the will of God. It is obvious all you are trying to do is to make this nonsense about John still living a truth, which it is not. Of all the dicipkes, he is the one thast has the most possi8ble toms for a burying place. There would be none if he had not died. God is pointing out that he definately is dead. Gd is not cruel. Poor John, to be all alone for thousands of yers---he can;t even be amongdst belivers. His is a changed being who belongs in heaven and is stuck here with no one to talk to. He has revesaled himself to no one. It is not good that man should be alone,. and John certainly is. Again, you diminish the Lord, make Him unkind, which He is not.

He is the way · Oct 2, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Please state the scriptures that say they do the work of angels, for that is what God has angels for. The translated go to heaven to be with God. They have their work for Him there. There is no scripture of anyone that was translated that came back to earth. Elijah and Moses came to be with Jesus, not the diciples, they did not even speak to them. You have nothing to base your assumptiopns on except JS. God does not do the will of JS. And JS certainly did not do the will of God. It is obvious all you are trying to do is to make this nonsense about John still living a truth, which it is not. Of all the dicipkes, he is the one thast has the most possi8ble toms for a burying place. There would be none if he had not died. God is pointing out that he definately is dead. Gd is not cruel. Poor John, to be all alone for thousands of yers---he can;t even be amongdst belivers. His is a changed being who belongs in heaven and is stuck here with no one to talk to. He has revesaled himself to no one. It is not good that man should be alone,. and John certainly is. Again, you diminish the Lord, make Him unkind, which He is not.

I don't know why you thing John unhappy bringing souls to God. Neither is Jesus Christ a liar when He said:
(New Testament | Mark 9:1)

1 AND he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Jesus does NOT lie. Neither is Jesus Christ ever wrong. They will not die till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Where will they be when they see the kingdom of God come with power? They will be right here on the earth in their translated bodies. Elijah and Moses also visit the earth and are bringing God's lost sheep back to the fold. I wonder how many Christians believe Jesus was wrong?

mmksparbud · Oct 2, 2020

He is the way said:
I don't know why you thing John unhappy bringing souls to God. Neither is Jesus Christ a liar when He said:
(New Testament | Mark 9:1)

1 AND he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Jesus does NOT lie. Neither is Jesus Christ ever wrong. They will not die till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Where will they be when they see the kingdom of God come with power? They will be right here on the earth in their translated bodies. Elijah and Moses also visit the earth and are bringing God's lost sheep back to the fold. I wonder how many Christians believe Jesus was wrong?

You're a broken record. What happened 6 days after Jesus said that???? Peter, James and John, saw Jesus glorified before their eyes and Moses and Elijah with Him. Jesus did not lie. You don't think that was Jesus with His kingdom in power?? Jesus did not say---they would see Him coming at His 2nd coming. He said they would see His kingdom with power. That is what they saw 6 days later.
You, yourselves keep repeating that it is not good for man to be alone. Yet God keeps John on earth, in transformed body---all alone with no one he can even reveal himself too. There is not one single account in these several 1000 years of any transformed being walking the planet.

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