Trump Retweets "Leave Democrat Cities. Let Them Rot."

Kentonio said:

Keep the insults to yourself please, or I have no interest in continuing to talk to you.

Click to expand...

Your post was either sarcastic and insulting, or else it was illogical. I hoped it was the latter and treated it that way. Taking the experience of a single person and extrapolating to the entire world is illogical since we have 8 billion people. That is what you did and that is what social media is doing. Saying that something is illogical when it is, that is not an insult. If I had said it was sarcastic when in fact it was illogical, that would be an insult.

Kentonio said:

There have been racist bigots always, they didn't go away under Obama. What you're seeing with Trump is those people feeling empowered to fight back against the movement towards equality that they've always feared and hated. What you're also seeing is a political movement that is drawing in new younger people into quite extremist views by channeling their discontent in a deeply disturbing direction.

Click to expand...

No, but the majority of Americans didn't suddenly become bigots when just four years earlier they weren't. Your response is too vague, are the extremist views that of the alt right, or the extreme left or both? The deeply disturbing direction that I see is your post saying that you are all for violence against certain people.

renniks said:

So he says.
And free speech has limits. If I scream obscenities in your face I can be arrested for harassment, but if I do it to a cop, it's ok? I don't think so.

Click to expand...

Supreme Court thinks so.

In City of Houston v. Hill, 482 U.S. 451 (1987), the Supreme Court found a city ordinance prohibiting verbal abuse of police officers to be unconstitutionally overbroad and a criminalization of protected speech.

The possible exceptions appear to be if it's loud enough to 'disturb the peace' or includes so-called 'fighting words': “abusive, indecent, profane or vulgar language” [is illegal] only if “by its very utterance [it] tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace,”

renniks said:

So he says.

Click to expand...

So you're calling him a liar then?

And free speech has limits. If I scream obscenities in your face I can be arrested for harassment, but if I do it to a cop, it's ok? I don't think so.

Click to expand...

1. I'm not sure where you're from, but around here, "Why are you violating your oath of office?" doesn't qualify as an obscenity.

2. Arrest for harrassment and being beaten, pepper sprayed, and tear gassed are not the same thing.

3. Supreme Court says you're wrong

Besides I can not tell from the video whether he put his hands on them or acted like he was reaching for a weapon.

Click to expand...

I can. It's pretty clear that he doesn't touch them, nor does he reach for anything. He briefly puts a hand up in a placating gesture when they start pointing batons and riot guns at him. Then they start beating on him and he doesn't move until they pepper spray him at point blank range.

ZNP said:

Your post was either sarcastic and insulting, or else it was illogical. I hoped it was the latter and treated it that way. Taking the experience of a single person and extrapolating to the entire world is illogical since we have 8 billion people. That is what you did and that is what social media is doing. Saying that something is illogical when it is, that is not an insult. If I had said it was sarcastic when in fact it was illogical, that would be an insult.

Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic. Your answer to me talking about a rise in fascist sentiment in the Western world was basically 'Well I haven't seen any'. Does that deserve anything more than a sarcastic response?

ZNP said:

No, but the majority of Americans didn't suddenly become bigots when just four years earlier they weren't. Your response is too vague, are the extremist views that of the alt right, or the extreme left or both? The deeply disturbing direction that I see is your post saying that you are all for violence against certain people.

Click to expand...

A majority of Americans have never voted for the eventual president.

Humans never get how they choose their own demise. We are good at being ignorant in the present, crying about what happens, and then rewriting history to hide our ignorance, dehumanization and shame for falling for such trite exploitation.

I know Trump will remain in office, but now I want him to. For what comes next, I think people should experience what it is like to have Trump as president during this time. No amount of warning changes human mind; most of us have to experience the trauma to have a basic understanding.

Trump is a judgment on America, as are all presidents. We don't see it now because we are ignorant, but our recompense will come in the form of seeing our grandchildren enslaved and dying for politics gain, and how our foolish partisan choices between two evils was all along a farce to exploit a vat of human insecurity and emotionalism.


America has been had, all because we are too ignorant to realize our naivete and view of "minorities" through a desensitized lens, for example, is precisely what will allow for similar "injustices" to happen to ANY American: by apologizing for someone's assault or murder by government/municipal powers (based of a partisan alignment and what our prejudiced parents taught us about minorities), we are saying it is perfectly fine for these injustices to happen to other citizens.

History less than 100 years old being repeated, and all people can do is hold degenerately repeat the same mistakes their parents made (especially since they don't see them as mistakes). And, we wonder why we have choices between lesser evils... we BEG for that illusion of choice because we can feel vindicated talking about political minutia (while at the same time extolling "our guy"). Partisanship is one of the vectors of our exploitation.

When will humans think higher of themselves not to be so easily exploited for votes and profits? It has been at least 7000 years since we have been at this; do humans just like to be exploited by other humans? Stockholm Syndrome?

Seriously what is going to take for humans to stop indulging in man-made exploitative paradigms and ideologies, and actually care about themselves, then others? Anyone who has prejudice, hate or a measure of ignorance that is being nurtured does not love themselves. We act like our base position is on both of our knees looking up to the human royal line of oppression. Political and spiritual masochism.

essentialsaltes said:

The possible exceptions appear to be if it's loud enough to 'disturb the peace' or includes so-called 'fighting words': “abusive, indecent, profane or vulgar language” [is illegal] only if “by its very utterance [it] tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace,”

Click to expand...

Which describes every BLM protest... constantly using obscenities and abusive language towards law enforcement.

iluvatar5150 said:

If this is really your attitude and you're not deliberately trolling, then you're either grossly, willfully ignorant of the realities in many of these protests, or you espouse an authoritarian ideology that's disgustingly abusive, unAmerican, and more than a little absurd. You're essentially implying that police are infallible.

Click to expand...

If you read my posts, I said the opposite, that the police are human, and sometimes cross the line. But it's understandable, and rare. Try putting yourself in their shoes, instead of acting like they should be infallible.

BTW, I would like to know what all you people defending rioters really think we should do about them. Should they have just left the arsonists burn down the courthouse last night? This isn't about social justice, it's a violent attack on the most fundamental institutions of our system of justice. It seems like in one generation, we've lost all respect for authority. I suppose we should blame that on the no spanking fad perhaps ?Time out doesnt seem to have instilled a sense of consequences for your actions into those who are now young adults.

Kentonio said:

I was being sarcastic. Your answer to me talking about a rise in fascist sentiment in the Western world was basically 'Well I haven't seen any'. Does that deserve anything more than a sarcastic response?

Click to expand...

Using your personal experiences to balance out some incendiary post is common sense. When I lived in Texas I saw them portray NYC as this city that was pure evil based on amplifying one or two incidents. Since I lived there I knew that the image being portrayed did not tell the whole story, didn't even tell a significant percentage of the story. Here is a person in France railing about justifying violent protests in the US who appears to have no first hand experience of the US. Why shouldn't we combine our first hand experiences with whatever you are taking as gospel because of some 2 minute video on youtube? That is the value of this forum, we get to hear first hand experiences as well as see youtube videos. When I lived in Taiwan they portrayed an image of the US that was not true. They thought the US was far more dangerous than Taiwan when the it was exactly the opposite.

Kentonio said:

A majority of Americans have never voted for the eventual president.

Click to expand...

That was especially true for Trump. In fact the majority of those that did vote didn't vote for Trump. You are clearly clueless about the US and now desperately trying to justify your erroneous opinion.

renniks said:

BTW, I would like to know what all you people defending rioters really think we should do about them. Should they have just left the arsonists burn down the courthouse last night? This isn't about social justice, it's a violent attack on the most fundamental institutions of our system of justice. It seems like in one generation, we've lost all respect for authority. I suppose we should blame that on the no spanking fad perhaps ?Time out doesnt seem to have instilled a sense of consequences for your actions into those who are now young adults.

Click to expand...

See post #242, Kentonio articulates it very succinctly, "It doesn't matter" what he is for, yet he wants you to care about what he is against.

iluvatar5150 said:

No, that hasn't been your attitude. When you even acknowledged that they occasionally go over the line, you shrug it off as if it's nothing. In many other examples, you denied that they crossed the line in the first place and made excuse for their poor behavior. Everything you've written is consistent with the way I described your post: you're either ignorant of what's happened in these cases or you're an authoritarian who's perfectly okay with government agents meting out an unamerican form of violent, retributive street justice. Maybe it's both.

Click to expand...

Like I said, thy putting yourself in their shoes. In the Portland riots, the rioters were even finding out what hotels the police were going to when off shift so they could cause enough noise the officers could not sleep. Quit acting like it's the police creating the situation. That's just dishonest.

iluvatar5150 said:

Do you know what triggered the riots in Kenosha? This:

Do you know what triggered the riots all across the country? This:

Do you know why people were protesting the Ahmed Arbury killing? Because a white prosecutor watched this video of a white ex-cop chasing down and killing an unarmed black man and said, "this is perfectly legal."

Here's the Philly PD trapping a bunch of people in a highway in a place where they can't leave and then gassing them as they're unable to leave:
How the Philadelphia Police Tear-Gassed a Group of Trapped Protesters

Here's the moment that Seattle police triggered violence at a protest by pepper spraying protesters without provocation:
Synced up the two videos of the pink umbrella : Seattle

I'd show video of the Lafayette Park clearing, but you've already pooh-poohed that, as you have the multiple cases of police targeting journalists.

Those are "police creating the situation." Furthermore, the conditions that precipitate these riots have existed for long periods of time. The violence, the harassment, the unprofessionalism, the falsified reports, the indignities meted out daily by police. There are serious problems with the police in this country interact with the rest of society and folks are getting tired of dealing with it. Unfortunately, folks like you want to point all the blame and responsibility in one direction and pretend as if it doesn't partly lay with the people with the guns and the badges and the qualified immunity.

Also, here's that same Kenosha PD who felt it necessary to shoot an unarmed retreating man in the back doing nothing as a visibly armed white man approaches them while other folks shout that the armed man just shot somebody:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1298502384654651392

Click to expand...

The Kenosha incident is still under investigation, yet you can bet the media is inciting viloence using it. Posting videos with no context doesn't tell me what led to any of the incidents. No provocation? Are you serious?
Apparently if anyone in your line of work ever makes a mistake, I can come to your house with a bullhorn and harass you for hours and burn your house down, even if you have never made a mistake and had nothing to do with those who did. That's the logic the rioters appear to be using.

ZNP said:

Using your personal experiences to balance out some incendiary post is common sense. When I lived in Texas I saw them portray NYC as this city that was pure evil based on amplifying one or two incidents. Since I lived there I knew that the image being portrayed did not tell the whole story, didn't even tell a significant percentage of the story. Here is a person in France railing about justifying violent protests in the US who appears to have no first hand experience of the US. Why shouldn't we combine our first hand experiences with whatever you are taking as gospel because of some 2 minute video on youtube? That is the value of this forum, we get to hear first hand experiences as well as see youtube videos. When I lived in Taiwan they portrayed an image of the US that was not true. They thought the US was far more dangerous than Taiwan when the it was exactly the opposite.

Click to expand...

Anecdotal evidence is worthless. I don’t base my views on the rise of fascism in the western world on anecdotes or opinion, I base it on documented evidence and statistics. You might want to listen to your own FBI who have been warning about a rise in right wing domestic extremist groups for many years now. Oh and maybe jump to a few less blind conclusions about people you know very little about.

As for Taiwan, all that shows is that you don’t know what you’re talking about despite having lived there. Taiwan has lower violent crime and homicide rates than the US and by quite a considerable margin.

That was especially true for Trump. In fact the majority of those that did vote didn't vote for Trump. You are clearly clueless about the US and now desperately trying to justify your erroneous opinion.

Click to expand...

What you just said about Trump is obvious. I have no idea what point (if any) you’re actually trying to make other than to be as insulting as possible.

Kentonio said:

Anecdotal evidence is worthless. I don’t base my views on the rise of fascism in the western world on anecdotes or opinion, I base it on documented evidence and statistics. You might want to listen to your own FBI who have been warning about a rise in right wing domestic extremist groups for many years now. Oh and maybe jump to a few less blind conclusions about people you know very little about.

As for Taiwan, all that shows is that you don’t know what you’re talking about despite having lived there. Taiwan has lower violent crime and homicide rates than the US and by quite a considerable margin.

Click to expand...

Reading this is hysterical. Jump to a few less blind conclusions followed by you jumping to a blind conclusion. I said that Taiwan is more dangerous than the US and you blindly assume this is due to violent crime. No, it was much more dangerous for two reasons, first of course was pollution. When I was there it was well documented that the air pollution in Taipei was off the charts compared to any place in the US. The second reason it was more dangerous is that they city is full of these alleys where cars race down and there is no sidewalk. I taught english to young adults in their 20s and it seemed in any class of 20 or less I would have 2 or 3 that had been crippled in a car accident. So you are the one who doesn't know what they are talking about, I lived there for 8 years, which is exactly why personal experience is important. I pointed out to them statistically that the chance of getting shot in NYC was much, much less than the chance they had of getting hit by a car or getting cancer in Taiwan. Not only so, but it is easy to greatly reduce your chances of being involved in a violent crime. Don't join a gang, don't go to a bar after 1am. Do those two things and your odds are greatly reduced. But what can you do in Taiwan? Don't breathe and don't walk on the streets.

Kentonio said:

What you just said about Trump is obvious. I have no idea what point (if any) you’re actually trying to make other than to be as insulting as possible.

Click to expand...

Don't be insulted, you used the statistical analysis of how many people vote in elections highlighting that we have never had an election in the US where 50% of registered voters have voted for the president. You used that in response to my saying that 4 years before Trump was elected Obama was elected as a way of showing the country didn't swing from not racist to racist in that span of time. Since you highlighted this point about less than 50% I understood and probably anyone else who reads your posts would understand as well that you are saying we can't conclude that since the majority of people either didn't vote or voted for the other candidate. My point is that if you take that approach then it would only be reasonable to look at the Trump election the same way, even fewer people voted for him, not just fewer than voted for Clinton but fewer than voted for the previous Republican candidate. If anything that indicates that many of the Republicans were turned off by Trump.

...

iluvatar5150 said:

don't care what led to the incident. If there's no weapon (I don't see one and have heard no claims that he had one) and there are no threats of violence (it's clear he's not making any towards the police), then there's no reason to shoot him.

Click to expand...

Only there are claims he had a knife. And yes, he struggles with the police before the video you've seen and resists arrest, apparently. I'm sure you are an expert at when a threat is viable, but I will trust the authorities over your analysis. ..