The World Needs Women Priests

kdm1984 said:

Priscilla was with her husband when Apollos was taught, so this isn't an example of a woman by herself teaching a man within the church setting. As for your following argument, "if a woman can't teach, a woman can't teach," I'm afraid this isn't the argument that's being made. Paul's prohibition was against women assuming authority over men specifically and only within the church setting.

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Given that we ARE the church, how do you define that?
We are church when we meet in a school, village hall or out in the open air.
We are church when we hold an Alpha session in the local coffee shop, at McDonald's or in a church hall, classroom or theatre.
We are church when we go to a big rally such as Spring Harvest, Greenbelt or hold a "Songs of Praise" big sing in a football stadium.
At the moment, we are church online; gathering in zoom meetings or watching services on Youtube.
We are church when 2 or 3 gather in his name.

I don't think they had "church settings" in Paul's day - they gathered in believers' houses, the temple or wherever. Later they gathered in catacombs.

kdm1984 said:

This doesn't forbid women from teaching men outside of that setting.

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So a Christian woman CAN teach a man as long as it's not in a special building which we call a church?

kdm1984 said:

That particular church may recognize her for doing it, but they aren't submitting their own authority to Scripture first, which doesn't recognize women as church leaders in authority over men.

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That's just the thing - they say that they are and it does.
This is why there is so much controversy; Scripture's not clear.
Paul was quite capable of writing "This is God's command; a woman must never preach in church or be a minister/elder", and repeating it in ALL his letters just to be perfectly clear; but he didn't. Jesus was quite capable of teaching it, so that all would know the structure and make up of his future church - he didn't either.
All we have are a few ambiguous verses, which some say prove the matter, and others say don't - and what God is doing today, which is calling and equipping women to serve him in this role.

kdm1984 said:

Paul's statement in Timothy addresses church leadership only,

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Paul wasn't talking about church leadership in 1 Timothy 2. He was giving instructions about worship; pray for everyone, for kings and those in authority; have men lift up holy hands without anger or dispute, and have women dress modestly and learn in quietness and submission.
A literal reading of those verses would suggest that women can't wear pearls, gold wedding rings or have plaits in their hair, and men have to lift holy hands in prayer, without anger or arguing. Funny how we never hear of people enforcing these things.

kdm1984 said:

Regarding prayer and prophesying, yes, those are allowed. Here's a good explanation about the "silence" passage:

Do women have to remain silent in church? | GotQuestions.org

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I thought we were talking about I Timothy 2:12; not Corinthians?

kdm1984 said:

In short, Paul did allow women to do many things, and yes, we can teach in other contexts -- just not as leaders over men in church.

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That's just it; Paul didn't say that.

Well, context again matters. In a church assembly, Paul outlines the need for male headship. But if you use "church" to refer to the entire body of believers, regardless of the context of assembly, it's different -- and that's where I explained it's fine for women to teach men in other contexts.

As for praying and prophesying, you were the one who brought up that passage, so I responded to it.

Love365 said:

The world needs women priests
to help women in poor countries get an education and jobs.

Jesus ordained two priests.
John the Baptist and Mary of Bethany.

Does the world need women priests?

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Women cannot be Kings
but they can be a queen.
Women cannot be prophets
but they can be a prophetess.

They cannot be a priest.
So they would have to be a priestess.

So NO the world does not need women priest.

antwaniiz said:

Women cannot be Kings
but they can be a queen.
Women cannot be prophets
but they can be a prophetess.

They cannot be a priest.
So they would have to be a priestess.

So NO the world does not need women priest.

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Strictly speaking the word priestess is something of an anachronism; it stemmed from the misuse of the word priest, which is an early English contraction of Presbyter, to refer to the sacerdotal priesthood, which @Paidiske referred to. More specifically, the word Priestess was coined to refer to the female sacerdotal religious leaders from the old Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Nordic and Mesopotamian Pagan religions, and other non-Christian religions such as Shinto, Voodoo, and so on. It is not applicable to Christianity, in contrast to Deaconess, which is a valid designation, since the liturgical ministry of Deaconesses in antiquity is slightly different from the liturgical ministry of male deacons (specifically, as I said earlier, Deacons were, and are, ministers of the Eucharist, whereas in antiquity the Deaconess served as a minister of Baptism).

The Liturgist said:

Strictly speaking the word priestess is something of an anachronism; it stemmed from the misuse of the word priest, which is an early English contraction of Presbyter, to refer to the sacerdotal priesthood, which @Paidiske referred to. More specifically, the word Priestess was coined to refer to the female sacerdotal religious leaders from the old Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Nordic and Mesopotamian Pagan religions, and other non-Christian religions such as Shinto, Voodoo, and so on. It is not applicable to Christianity, in contrast to Deaconess, which is a valid designation, since the liturgical ministry of Deaconesses in antiquity is slightly different from the liturgical ministry of male deacons (specifically, as I said earlier, Deacons were, and are, ministers of the Eucharist, whereas in antiquity the Deaconess served as a minister of Baptism).

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So NO the world does not need women priest.

antwaniiz said:

So NO the world does not need women priest.

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When the Bible says that we are a "royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:8-10, "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of his own, so that you may proclaim the virtues of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. You once were not a people, but now you are God’s people. You were shown no mercy, but now you have received mercy") it clearly is referring to all believers (race, priesthood, nation, people).

Since we are free from the Law and under Grace there is simply no reason that women cannot be priests. None.

pescador said:

When the Bible says that we are a "royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:8-10, "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of his own, so that you may proclaim the virtues of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. You once were not a people, but now you are God’s people. You were shown no mercy, but now you have received mercy") it clearly is referring to all believers (race, priesthood, nation, people).

Since we are free from the Law and under Grace there is simply no reason that women cannot be priests. None.

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I sure am glad that women cannot become Kings and prophets.

kdm1984 said:

As for praying and prophesying, you were the one who brought up that passage, so I responded to it.

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Yes I did; because some people take 1 Timothy 2:12 literally and this verse says that a woman should be silent. Years ago there was someone on this forum who's wife would not even say "amen" in church because she thought that Scripture did not allow it.
If someone is taking this verse literally, and they refuse to speak, sing or pray in worship, or let their wives/sisters do so; fine. They are practising what they believe. But I'd still like to know how they understand Paul's instructions on prophecy.

I want to know how various people understand this verse; that's all. And if they take, and apply it, literally, do they do that with the rest of Scripture, or is it only certain passages?

antwaniiz said:

I sure am glad that women cannot become Kings and prophets.

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Kings, no.
Prophets, yes; Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Isaiah's wife, Philip's 4 daughters.

pescador said:

When the Bible says that we are a "royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:8-10, "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of his own, so that you may proclaim the virtues of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. You once were not a people, but now you are God’s people. You were shown no mercy, but now you have received mercy") it clearly is referring to all believers (race, priesthood, nation, people).

Since we are free from the Law and under Grace there is simply no reason that women cannot be priests. None.

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So tell me
what would be their priestly duties?

Strong in Him said:

Kings, no.
Prophets, yes; Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Isaiah's wife, Philip's 4 daughters.

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They were not prophets, they were a prophetess.

And women cannot be a priest.

antwaniiz said:

So NO the world does not need women priest.

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Sorry, I am a bit confused - I was not aware we (the United Church of Christ) had any congregations in Indonesia.

antwaniiz said:

I sure am glad that women cannot become Kings and prophets.

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Women can and did become queens, and they can and did become prophets. Read your Bible!

Strong in Him wrote:

"Yes I did; because some people take 1 Timothy 2:12 literally and this verse says that a woman should be silent."

Well, I'm glad you admitted that you asked the question first; it would be hard to deny it, given that I quoted you directly, and it's available for all to see if they track this discussion throughout the thread. That is why I found it odd that you then wrote to me, "I thought we were talking about Timothy, not Corinthians." We were, and then you brought up the pray and prophesy passage, and so I responded to it. I was responding to a question you posed, and I responded to what you wrote, in very linear fashion. And I gave you a perspective on that passage, and why it doesn't contradict Timothy. This is the link I gave:

Do women have to remain silent in church? | GotQuestions.org

pescador said:

Women can and did become queens, and they can and did become prophets. Read your Bible!

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Which woman do you say is a prophet?

The Liturgist said:

Sorry, I am a bit confused - I was not aware we (the United Church of Christ) had any congregations in Indonesia.

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But there could be someone who is a member of the United Church of Christ in Indonesia right now and you would not know it.

I do not think your motive is confusion.

antwaniiz said:

Which woman do you say is a prophet?

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"Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron’s sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing." Exodus 15:20

"Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time." Judges 4:4

And in the New Testament era (now)...

"‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams." Acts 2:17-18

"Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues." 1 Cornithians 14:39

pescador said:

"Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron’s sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing." Exodus 15:20

"Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time." Judges 4:4

And in the New Testament era (now)...

"‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams." Acts 2:17-18

"Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues." 1 Cornithians 14:39

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You say they are prophets and I say they are prophetess.

God judge between you and I concerning this matter.

Now it is up to Him.

Love365 said:

The world needs women priests
to help women in poor countries get an education and jobs.

Jesus ordained two priests.
John the Baptist and Mary of Bethany.

Does the world need women priests?

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There were no priests ordained by Jesus. They were apostles. The priesthood was done away with at the cross, Jesus is now our High Priest, He is all the priest we need--male or female, our only mediator. Prophets are a whole other thing and can be either sex.

pescador said:

"Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron’s sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing." Exodus 15:20

"Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time." Judges 4:4

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What bible are you using to quote these verses?