I didn’t say there was a difference in whom God offers salvation to. I said that the Jews who Paul was talking to wanted to go back to the law and temple sacrifice. They have not put their faith and trust in Christ alone. You said that salvation will be known after you have finished your life I say you can know for certain now. This is why you don’t see what I’m saying.
I can't say what I will believe in ten or twenty years from now.
Were I to die today, it would be with a clear conscience.
Christ dwells in us through faith. We are not in the flesh but in the spirit if Christ dwells in you. We have two nature’s so there is a separation here. If you do not have the spirit of Christ you do not belong to Him but the Spirit dwells by faith. Now those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh. The old man works against the new man so it’s pointless to say this to someone who only knows the old man but Paul said it. Why? because we still contend with our unsaved flesh. God is continuously training our flesh as we grow in Him but to suggest that believers do not still fail in their flesh which they contend with is ludicrous. Fruit can not be produced by obedience to laws only by the spirit can fruit come forward. The law is designed to cause you to fail when it is your effort to walk in it.
A second nature denies the truth of 2 Cor 5:17 and Jesus' parable about new wine stored in new bottles..."or both will perish".
If the flesh was crucified, (and it is in the truly repentant), how can it "work against the new man"?
Why do you keep making this assumption that OSAS people love to be sinful through their flesh towards God. It’s nonsense.
It is obvious by their continued return to sin.
That refutes their repentance from sin.
We can't forge a relationship with God that is based on a lie.
Yes obviously we don’t keep kosher and feast days but you continuously miss my point. Our obedience to God is to believe in His Son and His righteousness once this happens we begin a walk were the flesh is crucified we die daily through his grace and love for us, by His power not our own. We have two nature’s and if we sin we have an advocate with the Father. Jesus has assured us multiple times that He will never leave us or forsake us, we are continuously cleansed by His blood. You are not made righteous by your good behavior you are made righteous by the blood of Jesus and that in turn will cause right living, by the spirit. I keep explaining this same point to you but your mind will not allow it to even register.
Our "good behavior" manifests we have turned from sin and unto God.
It shows we "follow" the good Shepherd.
It shows we believe all that God has said.
All disobedience has been paid for by the finished work on the cross. No believer will ever be judged for their sins. We just went over this scripture, they called Him Lord because He is talking with them “in that day” He says I “”NEVER”” knew you. Never means never as to say not at any point in all of your existence did I ever have a relationship with you. How do we have a relationship with the Lord? By faith. These people NEVER put their faith in Christ
Folks who still serve sin serve another lord than Jesus.
He said no man can serve two masters, and in fact will hate the one and love the other.
Servants of sin hate God.
Ok but how are you righteous. You have said repeatedly that your own obedience is what God judges you on. If it is by works it is no longer by grace. I’m not talking about dietary laws here I am talking about mosaic laws. You are unable to by your own strength keep these laws no man has ever besides Jesus. If you plan on offering God your own righteous efforts they will fall to the ground. We keep Gods laws by the blood of the Lamb being on us this is what God looks at this is what makes us righteous. Once grace is established then by the spirit we see the fruit of God in our lives. Continuing that thought the fact that there is now no condemnation can this be made a reality but self efforts to keep the law will only bring about condemnation because you will fail, well not you but everyone else.
As you said, we keep God's laws by the blood of the Lamb being on us".
Those who do not keep God's laws (love God above all else and love your neighbor as yourself) don't have the blood of the Lamb on them.
They never were crucified with Christ, with the affections and lusts.
At least try and accurately quote what I am saying in your response to me I’ve noticed you have done this a couple of times. Victory over sin does not come from striving or performance it comes from the fact that we are made righteous by what Christ has done for us. We are keepers of the law because Jesus fulfilled the law. What this will produce in a person through revelation of His grace is victory over sin. Victory over sin is not trying to not sin, victory over sin is sin does not tempt you, you have literal victory over it. We still will sin and fail at times, we are contending with flesh that hates and is apposed to the new nature but our new nature is righteous and that righteousness (Jesus) has condemned sin in the flesh.
As you already know what causes "victory over sin" why would one still sin?
You are giving the us "cure" but still suffering from the "disease".
Because Christ overcame the flesh when He dwelt in us now the believer has authority over our flesh and we have the ability to overcome the flesh but there is a process we grow in. I have never said we are helpless to our flesh I have said that our flesh is not saved nor ever will be, we have two nature’s. We die daily as God trains our flesh more and more and in that process we still will sin but we are growing glory to glory. No believer wants to sin nor takes some sort of pride in the fact they do but we are in a process becoming more and more like Him. Just logically your position does not hold water. You have been suggesting wrongly that no one can have assurance of whether or not they will inherit eternity until they are judged at the end by their obedience to the law. This goes against scripture, one can definitely know if they are a child of God right now, today.
Again, the cure and still subject to the disease?
BTW, Peter wrote..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
There is a judgement coming for all men.
The flesh is carnal the law is spiritual. The flesh is not saved and subject to the law. The law came so that transgressions would increase once your flesh knows the law, it will sin by default unless you know that the law is dead to you. Your inner man would never suggest that you should sin. I do the things that I don’t want to do as Paul said, we have two nature’s. I’m not talking about your “skin” I’m talking about the sin nature that “exists” in the flesh.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Those still carnal are not Christ's.
BTW, Paul was narrating his past while still in the flesh in Rom 7.
The proof?
Rom 7:23..."But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the
law of sin which is in my members."
It is already dealt with in Rom 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus
hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
The law of sin in his members has been eclipsed by the law of the Spirit of Christ.
And Rom 7:24..."O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the
body of this death?"
It was already confronted in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
The law of sin is gone, and the old body you keep crediting for ongoing sin is gone too.
No read it again. He “”NEVER”” knew them at anytime, ever.
Yet they somehow thought they had inherited eternal life.
Maybe they blamed an undead "body of sin" for their iniquity?
We are not saved by works but by grace.
You are correct, the works of the Law will profit nobody.
Circumcision and dietary law is passe.
I having been using the word works to show an action one would take in order to get a response from God. The only “work” we are to do is have faith in Christ and then by the spirit fruit will come. If I believe not coveting is something I am to do with my own strength it is a work and I will fail in it. If I know that Christ has fulfilled the law and I’m no longer counted as a trespasser to the law then grace will manifest in power and I will fulfill that law in the natural by the spirit not because I had to strive to but because I’m free to. The word holy simply means to be “set apart or consecrated”. So come out from the world in your thinking and actions but be in the world because you are the light of the world.
Faith without love is hate.
If one doesn't have faith that God will destroy the wicked, they will never love Jesus for what He accomplished on our behalf.
The righteous are those who have put their trust in Christ. The unrighteous have not put their faith in Christ. Your works for salvation theology is dangerous, whether or not you want to admit it, you still sin.
There are no righteous sinners.
Sin is unrighteousness.
Your right but who are these servants of sin. WE HAVE TWO NATURES the inner eternally saved man and the flesh which is at war with the new man. No reason for Paul who in the present tense called himself a sinner to distinguish the two to a believer if that believer would not have to contend with it. I didn’t open the Bible for the first time last week my friend, you still have the capability to sin in the flesh, you do not walk perfectly before God and never sin as you have stated. You are only attempting to fool yourself to satisfy self righteousness.
If you have two natures, you have poured new wine (Spirit of God) into old bottles (old body of sin).
Both shall perish.
Come on man, you’re the one who equated studying the Bible to be equal with the blood of Christ as in what makes you righteous.
That doesn't answer my question.
Why are you still a servant of sin, if you love God so much and have faith He can free us from sin?
Ok clarify this for me because it does not run in line with other comments you have made. Your original repentance or changing of your mind was enough. Now are you saying that initial repentance made you righteous by faith so when the Father looks upon you He sees the righteousness of His Son.
My "original repentance" was from sin.
If one "turns from" sin, they don't sin anymore.
That, in tandem with my God ordained baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins made me a washed ex-sinner.
That equates to righteous.
Or your initial repentance caused a death to your flesh and since that day to the present you have never sinned in the flesh. The latter of these two seems to be where your argument has been matter of fact there is no doubt that has been where your argument has been.
It was my baptism into Christ and into His death that "caused the death of my flesh". (Rom 6:3-6)
Just by examining the two you deny the power of the blood to make you righteous and see a need to work for justification.
I don't know why you can't see that my baptism in water was the washing by the blood of Christ for the remission of my past sins. (1 John 5:8)
You do not see the power of Gods grace.
I do, as He provided everything I needed, and still need, to keep manifesting the kingdom of God on earth...to His glory.
By His grace I received the gift of repentance from sin, the gift of baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost, the gift of tongues, and much more.
He didn't need to do anything, but in His kindness not only sacrificed His Son for my propitiation, but all I require to remain in His light.
You said we can not forge a relationship with God in a lie. I came to God broken and in need of His grace which He gladly supplied to me. I am not perfect in all my actions and will always be in need of His grace day after day after day. You on the other hand never sin and walk perfectly before God. Now who is the one basing their relationship on false premises.
You are saying you have fellowship with God even though you walk in darkness. (1 John 1:6)
BUT, if you turn from sin and start walking in the light-God, you too can begin to walk "unbroken".
Consider the warnings I bring as further grace.
I don’t know perhaps trying to earn favor from someone.
There is nothing like the favor of God.
I will do anything for it.
I must say I don’t get to speak with people who never sin and walk perfectly before God to often. Are you telling me your mind never has a though contrary to the word of God that every single thought that comes through your mind PERFECTLY lines up with scripture? Are you telling me that your strength to serve the Lord is used perfectly every single day without ever stepping outside of the will of God as far as His perfect will for your day? Are you telling me that your faith is so perfect and in-line with the faith of Christ that all who come to you are healed and set free? Remember Jesus went about healing ALL who came to him for this is the will of God. Are you telling me that you love your neighbor so perfect that everyone you come in contact with who’s heart is turned towards God walks away feeling as if the Lord Himself has just ministered to them? Are you telling me that you never go 1 mile over the speed limit? Are you telling me that you love your wife PERFECTLY as Christ loves the church (I’m assuming you’re married)? These are some of the things we, well not we but I fail in because I contend with two nature’s how about you? Even know this was not directed towards the sons of God I’m sure you believe it applies to you, have you sold ALL that you own and followed after Him.
Yes, except I don't have the gift of healing.
Your discourse reminds me of the Pharisee's arguments against Jesus.
They trusted in the OT Law of Moses for their salvation, but without the love for God or their neighbors Jesus insisted on.
You believe in a doctrine of faith and grace, without the love that would show that belief or grace.
Don't remain in such dire straits.
For further discussion on perfect obedience to God, we must converse privately.
The moderators are not big fans of the subject.
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