The Law is external; the Spirit is internal

Josheb said:

What does Paul explicitly state is the context for our no longer being under the law? How have I answered that question? Did I use scripture correctly to do so or not?

Click to expand...

We are under the dominion of Grace.
Law is excluded by the Cross.

Behold said:

We are under the dominion of Grace.
Law is excluded by the Cross.

Click to expand...

Okay, I have asked you several times now how your posts are relevant to the question of whether the law is external or internal. I have also asked, at least twice now, what is the specific context for our living by/under faith/grace/Spirit and I haven't received a cogent response to either request. I have also pointed out the areas of agreement and directed you, personally, to respond to the op because the op is where the conflicts lie, not with me. The op needs you to post this to the op. This too has gone ignored despite multiple exhortations and encouragement.

So, now that there is evidence contents of my posts are being ignored I am going to bring scripture to bear upon your end of the conversation and give you one more single opportunity to answer and address my responses to your posts.


This is what scripture, not me personally, says about people who don't do the right things even after being asked to do so. I assume that's not the guy you are trying to be. I assume you, Behold, do not want to be the guy stirring up division, the person who is warped, sinful, and self-condemned but the evidence at this point is irrefutable: you are not engaging and furthering this conversation. I've done my part. I've affirmed what was commendable. I've asked about that which is unclear. I have refuted that which bears no integrity with scripture. I'm waiting on you and you have exceeded the limits set by God's word.

So..... last time: 1) how is this relevant to the premise the law is only external and not also internal and if you are in agreement with what I have already posted on this matter then 2) why aren't you overtly expressing agreement and 3) posting these concerns to the op?

1) How is your content relevant to the claim the law is only external since you're on record stating it is both?

2) Why aren't you overtly posting clear statements of agreement where appropriate?

3) Why isn't this content posted to the op?

Don't expect further replies if those questions are not answered and addressed with substance.

Josheb said:

I have also asked, at least twice now, what is the specific context for our living by/under faith/grace/Spirit and I haven't received a cogent response to either request..

Click to expand...

The context for our "living under Grace, ect"?
That would be the Blood Atonement.

Behold said:

The context for our "living under Grace, ect"?
That would be the Blood Atonement.

Click to expand...

And where in the text that mentions "under grace" do you find the words "blood atonement" explicitly stated?

I assume your reference to "under grace" is Romans 6. That's what was stated previously. If you're using some other scripture please cite it. Paul's exposition on the law and living under grace and/or by the Spirit in reference to the law's annullment has a very explicitly state context. Paul explicitly specifies two contexts. What are they?

The word "blood" is mentioned only twice in Paul's exposition ranging from chapter 3 to chapter 8 of Romans. Only twice. On both occasions the mention of blood is explicitly stated within a given, specified context. The words "atone" and "atonement" are nowhere mentioned in those six chapters. I'm not saying blood atonement isn't relevant; it is. What I am saying is you're missing the explicitly stated and specified context.

I should not have to ask this three or four times. You could have gotten out your Bible and read those chapters by now and provided the correct answer to the question asked and furthered the conversation and sown good will. Please do so now.


I will give you credit for answering one of the three questions but I will point out only one of the three was answered and that does not evidence a collaborative effort. It evidences Titus 3:9-11! So, because an answer to one of the three questions was attempted I will extend some more patience and ask once again,

Josheb said:

And where in the text that mentions "under grace" do you find the words "blood atonement" explicitly stated?

Click to expand...

Paul said that God sent Him not to water baptize but to "Preach the Cross".
The Cross is wholly related to the Blood Atonement.
The blood atonement creates GRACE as a Dominion, exactly the same way that "the power of sin is the Law".

Behold said:

Paul said that God sent Him not to water baptize but to "Preach the Cross".
The Cross is wholly related to the Blood Atonement.
The blood atonement creates GRACE as a Dominion, exactly the same way that "the power of sin is the Law".

Click to expand...

Yeah, we're done here.


The nswer is justification and righteousness. Go get your Bible out and read the first eight chapters of Romans. Do it now. Don't continue reading this post until you've read those eight chapters.


Now that's you've read those chapters you will be able to see that Paul specified two conditions: justification and righteousness. The law has been abrogated as a means of justification and righteoousness. There is no other basis for the law's annullment in these chapters. Elsewhere we read other places where the law is no longer applicable (such a the dietary rules or the Levitical order) but in Romans Paul is specifying the law's inability as a means of providing justification and righteousness. The righteous shall live by faith.

We necessarily understand this is a limit because throughout the entirety of the NY every single one of the NT writers repeated applies the law to the converts to Christ and they do so to ALL Christians, not just the Jewish converts.



And the reason this is op-relevant is because not only are there specified limits to the powers and limits of the law, but we learn the law is written on the human heart and lies within the human - both Christian and pagan! - in many ways. This is proven when the Gentile acts in moral manner demonstrating he is a law unto himself and has God's precepts within him. We also see the internal nature of the law reported in the repeated appeals to the conscience. That's internal. Show me an externally existing conscience and I'll reconsider my position.

This is not rocket science. This matter of justification is stated plainly, explicitly, repeatedly in the Romans exposition so there is no excuse for not knowing it, especially since you were sent to the text and given multiple opportunities to rely on scripture! and didn't take the time and make the effort to do so.

Btw, the atonement of Christ's blood is external. That externally-existing remedy to oour problem of sin and the estrangement from God it has caused was necessary because we do not have within us the ability to surmount that problem on our own despite the law at work within because the law shows us our sin but it cannot provide justification or righteousness.



So you and I are done here. I don't trade posts with folks who don't post op-relevantly, show parity, or further the conversation.

pescador said:

Sorry, but the Old Testament law is external. It doesn't live within us or there would have been no need for Jesus to send us the Holy Spirit. "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." 2 Corinthians 3:6 and elsewhere.

Click to expand...

God's Word is Spirit and lived inside Jesus, Zechariahs, Peter, James and Paul, all of the faith examples in the Holy Scriptures.. What you are omitting from your mind is the truth that the only God of Abraham preaching people on the planet had corrupted God's Laws, they were supposed to teach God's Way that Abraham taught to his children, but they did not. Jesus came back, as Prophesied, to "rebuild the "Good way" that those who HE appointed to teach had corrupted. As it is written;

Mal. 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. (EX. 32)

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

And again;

Is. 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

And again;

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, ( Like Jesus walked therein) and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

As it is to this day.

Yes, there are always religious men teaching against the Commandments of God. Just as in the garden with Eve. So we should all expect to hear from the "other voice" and it's attempt to convince us, as it did Eve, that God's Commandments are a burden which makes us blind.

Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!

Many, who come in Christ's Name, claim to be moved into disobedience to God by the Holy Spirit. But this is not true. As Peter says;

Acts. 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

As it is written;

2 Tim. 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; (Though shall surely not die) and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

pescador said:

I have no interest in your selective interpretation of Scripture. It does nothing but show your predetermined bias against what the whole Bible says.

BTW, if you used a different, more modern, more accurate Bible translation than the King James you undoubtedly would see things differently. Forsooth, does thou not see wherein thou has committed errors?

Click to expand...

OK! Thank you for your spirit filled reply.

expos4ever said:

I agree. The odd thing about this discussion is that those who insist the Law is still in force have the very odd challenge of explaining why this effectively relegates the Holy Spirit to the sidelines. And yet here is the job description of the Holy Spirit:

But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth

If someone claims that we need to look to the Law for guidance on how to live, that seems to encroach on a big chunk of "all truth".

Click to expand...

The two are not mutually exclusive and the Holy Spirit invariably uses the law - exactly as Jesus and every single one of the NT writers did - to show truth.

The law is internal too, not just external. Just because it is written down on tablets, scrolls, or books does not mean it is not also internally within us. The Spirit in the regenerate confirms this.

pescador said:

I have no interest in your selective interpretation of Scripture....

Click to expand...

The evidence contained in your posts undeniably demonstrates you have no interest in uninterpreted, plainly read as written scripture, either. The facts in evidence show you wildly interpreted scripture so now when you write, "I have no interest in your selective interpretation..." all you've said amounts to your preference for your interpretation of others'. That is a Fail.


The laws of God are written on the human heart and this is clearly reported - without need for interpretation - when the scriptures expound upon the Gentile "do by nature the things of the Law." No "interpretation needed nor warranted. The internal nature of the law is evident in every appeal to the conscience; "they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness." The internal nature of the law is evident in the fact the Holy Spirit inspired the NT writers to repeatedly appeal to the law in their instruction to both believers and non-believers. The internal nature of the law is evident when the Holy Spirit inspired the prophet to state, "I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts." The mouth of the righteous utters wisdom,, and his tongue speaks justice. The law of his God is in his heart (Ps. 37:30-31).

When you show me a conscience, a mind, and a heart that resides external to the individual then I will reconsider what I have posted. Until then...

...the facts in evidence show you're not interested is scripture as written, plainly read, and as a consequence...

...this op Fails.


So don't be criticizing Studyman with that log in your own eye. It's petty to mock someone's post over a spelling error. It is self-contradictory to pit "Jesus, Zechariah (or Zacharias) , Peter, James and Paul" against others in the Bible and those today who have received the Holy Spirit. That comment demonstrates a woeful lack of knowledge, wisdom, and understanding.


And we haven't even yet addressed the matter of the Spirit also being both internal and external. The law is both internal and external AND the Spirit is both internal and external. He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. The Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. The Spirit residing in me is external to you. Likewise the Spirit residing in you is external to me. The Spirit sent from God by Christ exists in the Father and the Son externally to both of us. This is common sense for most people!

No, you are not interested in Studyman's "interpretation" but you're not interested in uninterpreted scripture, either. The oppostrunity to self-correct the op was provided, encouraged, and exhorted and.... ignored.


Fail.

Josheb said:

There is no other basis for the law's annullment in these chapters..

Click to expand...

So you were simply asking me how to show you why the law was annulled..?
Then why write long disorganized posts? Why not just ask me..."behold, why was the law annulled".= abolished, = replaced.

So, why was it?
Because the law is not able to give righteousness, and it also can't remove the consciousness of sin.
So, God Himself provided a Blood Atonement, that is an "eternal redemption", that replaces the law with Grace.
See, " the power of sin is the Law". All it can do is JUDGE. It can't offer Righteousness.
So, God had to provide this Himself by keeping the law, then dying for sin, becoming the sin of the world, which removed the dominion of the Law. See, The law's "dominion" to power sin and not impart righteousness is "the curse of the law", and Jesus has """redeemed us from the curse of the law.""
This is why we are "no longer under the Law, but under GRACE"
Grace is now our "law", it is now our dominion authority, and Grace operates as a GIFT that imparts righteousness. "the gift of Righteousness". based on "justification by faith".

Ok then, if you have any other questions..... could you present them as just the question and not as an obtuse essay that is only clear to you ??


thx


B

Josheb said:

Btw, the atonement of Christ's blood is external. That externally-existing remedy to oour problem of sin and the estrangement from God it has caused was necessary because we do not have within us the ability to surmount that problem on our own despite the law at work within because the law shows us our sin but it cannot provide justification or righteousness.

Click to expand...

What a beautiful way to represent what is written.

I encountered this problem with Paul 25 years ago. I heard him say in Acts 24 how be believed all things written in the Law and Prophets, which placed him in perfect alignment with Jesus. I heard him define his teaching in Acts 26.

19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

A statement also aligned perfectly with the teaching of the Christ.

I heard him teach who is justified in Roman's 2.

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

And again;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

This also is agreed upon by the Christ and All the Prophets in which HIS Spirit remained.

But then Paul said.

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So this seemed to be contradictory, not only to Jesus and the Law and Prophets, but also to his own teaching. So i set out to understand.

I knew there was a truth here so I fasted for 3 days and nights, praying and crying, with headaches so bad I vomited.

Then it happened********** Nothing!! I could not figure this out, and I knew better than to find another religious voice to depend on. So I wiped my tears, got something to eat and just figured God would let me know in HIS Good time and continued with study and prayer.

It was about 3 months later as I was reading the story of Samuel and King Saul to my 7 year old daughter when it hit me.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

After I was finished I went to Rom. 3 again. As you point out, Paul was speaking about "justification". How was a man justified according to the Law? I asked myself, "If I have sinned, what did Moses say to do"?

did HE say "if a man sins he shall keep the Sabbath Holy, and his sin is forgiven"? No!!

Did he say "if a man sins he shall love his neighbor as himself, and his sin is forgiven? NO!!

He said "If a man sins he shall take a clean animal to a Levite Priest, who would then perform certain Sacrificial, Ceremonial "Works of the Law" of atonement and that man's sins are forgiven.

Lev. 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

Given that the Pharisees did not believe Jesus was the Unblemished Lamb, they were still bewitching the New Converts by telling them they could not be saved unless they followed the Law of Moses. But Paul knew Jesus was the true prophesied Lamb of God, and that HE had already shed HIS Blood, as prophesied, for the sins of the people.

Since he was speaking about the Jews in Rom 3. And about the Oracles of God.

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4. God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

It finally dawned on me.

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, (Not the blood of bulls as per the Law) to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, (Not the Deeds of the Levitical Priesthood as per the Law) through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (Not the works of a Levite Priest as per the Law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? (Priesthood sacrificial Laws) Nay: but by the law of faith. (Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (of works)

Glory be to the God of Abraham, and to HIS Son who has shown Mercy to me, a nobody, and opened my eyes and answered my prayer for understanding. This was the first of many times that He has shown me what Paul, who is hard to understand, was saying.

I know this post is long, and who am I? But I wanted to share this experience with you in that you showed kindness to me.

Thank You Sir

Behold said:

So you were simply asking me how to show you why the law was annulled..?

Click to expand...

No, the questions asked you are very clear, plain, and specific. Pretending something else occurred demonstrates a lack of honesty and and insinuating a straw man is fallacious.

Behold said:

Then why write long disorganized posts?

Click to expand...

lol. Nice red herring. My posts are not disorganized and asserting them as such is, again, disingenuous. You had your chance at cogent discourse and blew it so don't blame me for your failings.


Do better next time.

Studyman said:

What a beautiful way to represent what is written.

Click to expand...

Thx. The appreciation is appreciated, especially in contrast to the subterfuge already present in this thread .

Studyman said:

I encountered this problem with Paul 25 years ago. I heard him say in Acts 24 how be believed all things written in the Law and Prophets, which placed him in perfect alignment with Jesus. I heard him define his teaching in Acts 26.

19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

A statement also aligned perfectly with the teaching of the Christ.

Click to expand...

Yes, and I'm not quite sure why any confusion occurs except as a result of poor teaching and a lack of skill in exegesis. The matter is really quite concisely expressed in Ephesians 2:8-10. It is there we read we are saved by grace through faith for works. This then begs the question, "What works is it God has planned in advance for me to perform?" Well, the spiritualizers will say the Holy Spirit tells us what to do but, while that is true and correct, it is only half of the correct answer. The reason this is only half of the answer is because the works begin with keeping Christ's commands and nearly everything Jesus taught can be found in the OT! The written word, the incarnate word, and the Holy Spirit work together cohesively in unison for the purposes of God, and not against one another and not in exclusion of one another.

It's somewhat like the owner's manual or repair manual to an automobile: the mechanic is never going to tell you anything contradictory to the design specifications and requirements dictated by the manufacturer! but for some unfathomable reason some Christians falsely imagine they have warrant to ignore the Manufacturer's manual pertaining to humanity and His relationship thereof.

This is objectively, undeniably, and irrefutably demonstrated by the idea the law of God is only external and never internal. This isn't merely evidence of a lack of knowledge but proof of it. Those whose allegiance is to the word of God self-correct when shown clear uninterpreted proof in the written word but that has not happened here. Instead the responses are ad hominem, straw man, false equivalency, false cause and other fallacious responses the evidence the flesh, not the Spirit.


Many read that passage and focus only on the "immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery," and forget all the more ordinary and common items mentioned in the middle. The wrongly think, "Im okay because I'm not immoral, impure, idolatrous or practicing sorcery," as they then proceed to post enmity in strife, dissension, with divisiveness from factionalized teaching. The truth lies in a very simple and plain reality:

The Holy Spirit does NOT argue with fallacy!

So every time we read a logical fallacy we know it came from the flesh, not the Spirit.

It's not rocket science.

This evidence then becomes proof when the failure to self-correct occurs and the attack begin because the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Who was patient in the posts above? Who was kind? Who demonstrated self-control?

God's word exists for a reason and if we don't apply it in our method it doesn't matter how truthful our content is! We must post both content and method in a manner consistent with God's word.


Love is patient. Love is kind. Love is not self-serving. Love rejoices in righteousness and truth and always trust, hopes. Anyone can practice patience episodically but to be patient as a matter of character and being can only be accomplished by Spirit-driven transformative obedience. Sadly, we all falter.


The law is both internal and external. The Spirit is both internal and external. To separate those two conditions is to create a false dichotomy.

Studyman said:

What a beautiful way to represent what is written.

I encountered this problem with Paul 25 years ago. I heard him say in Acts 24 how be believed all things written in the Law and Prophets, which placed him in perfect alignment with Jesus. I heard him define his teaching in Acts 26.

19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

A statement also aligned perfectly with the teaching of the Christ.

I heard him teach who is justified in Roman's 2.

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

And again;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

This also is agreed upon by the Christ and All the Prophets in which HIS Spirit remained.

But then Paul said.

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So this seemed to be contradictory, not only to Jesus and the Law and Prophets, but also to his own teaching. So i set out to understand.

I knew there was a truth here so I fasted for 3 days and nights, praying and crying, with headaches so bad I vomited.

Then it happened********** Nothing!! I could not figure this out, and I knew better than to find another religious voice to depend on. So I wiped my tears, got something to eat and just figured God would let me know in HIS Good time and continued with study and prayer.

It was about 3 months later as I was reading the story of Samuel and King Saul to my 7 year old daughter when it hit me.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

After I was finished I went to Rom. 3 again. As you point out, Paul was speaking about "justification". How was a man justified according to the Law? I asked myself, "If I have sinned, what did Moses say to do"?

did HE say "if a man sins he shall keep the Sabbath Holy, and his sin is forgiven"? No!!

Did he say "if a man sins he shall love his neighbor as himself, and his sin is forgiven? NO!!

He said "If a man sins he shall take a clean animal to a Levite Priest, who would then perform certain Sacrificial, Ceremonial "Works of the Law" of atonement and that man's sins are forgiven.

Lev. 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

Given that the Pharisees did not believe Jesus was the Unblemished Lamb, they were still bewitching the New Converts by telling them they could not be saved unless they followed the Law of Moses. But Paul knew Jesus was the true prophesied Lamb of God, and that HE had already shed HIS Blood, as prophesied, for the sins of the people.

Since he was speaking about the Jews in Rom 3. And about the Oracles of God.

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4. God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

It finally dawned on me.

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, (Not the blood of bulls as per the Law) to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, (Not the Deeds of the Levitical Priesthood as per the Law) through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (Not the works of a Levite Priest as per the Law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? (Priesthood sacrificial Laws) Nay: but by the law of faith. (Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (of works)

Glory be to the God of Abraham, and to HIS Son who has shown Mercy to me, a nobody, and opened my eyes and answered my prayer for understanding. This was the first of many times that He has shown me what Paul, who is hard to understand, was saying.

I know this post is long, and who am I? But I wanted to share this experience with you in that you showed kindness to me.

Thank You Sir

Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed account of the Love of God, as expressed in the Holy Blood of Jesus, as given eternally as "The Gift of Righteousness".

Hallelujah !!



B

pescador said:

I have read many discussions about the Law vs the Spirit but most of them ignore a given fact...

The Law is external to the person. It is a set of written (and sometimes oral) requirements that governs a person's behavior from outside of them. We are told to do and what not to do according to a set of commands/rules that are not from within us.

The Spirit is internal to a person. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to guide us internally to do what God wants us to do. The Spirit is our guide and counselor; He is God living within us.

I have read post after post after post in which Christians are still thinking that they have to obey something external to us, whether it be the written Law or the teaching of some external hierarchy of priests and/or pastors, or some other external source. This is a denial of the New Covenant; if you're not governed by the part of the Godhead that lives within us, you're living under the Old Covenant, which has passed away.

Click to expand...

In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments, so the Mosaic Covenant had always been an internal matter of the heart and God had always disdained it when His people honored Him with their lips while their hearts were far from Him. What is in our hearts is expressed through our words and actions, so there is no such thing as inward leading of the Spirit that is not expressed through our actions, especially because the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the law (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Josheb said:

Thx. The appreciation is appreciated, especially in contrast to the subterfuge already present in this thread .

Yes, and I'm not quite sure why any confusion occurs except as a result of poor teaching and a lack of skill in exegesis.

Click to expand...

That is exactly right. The confusion comes from hearing the religious doctrines and traditions I was born into, which contradicted what the Word of God actually said.

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Good stuff.

OldWiseGuy said:

Each will obey Christ's commands as we understand them and as they apply to our lives. We are to "work out our own salvation..."

Click to expand...

How do you avoid relativism with that position?

Josheb said:

How do you avoid relativism with that position?

Click to expand...

I haven't found that to be a problem.