The Law is external; the Spirit is internal

[ralliann]

I'm posting scriptures and discussing them. It's not about me, though it appears you must make it so.

Well, I was speaking to your statement here. Seemed you vs them
"Well, I have HOPE and Faith that the Word's of the Word of God which became Flesh are true, therefore, I believe in Him and follow HIS Instruction instead of the "Ministers of Righteousness" who transgress God's Commandments by their own ancient religious traditions."

It's not about you, though you seem offended by it.

Well, I just cannot tell to whom you are distinguishing yourself from here.

It's about believing ALL that is written in Scriptures, VS. believing the religious man that the Word of God which became Flesh warns over and over and over and over and over again.

For me, its all about mutual discussion of the scriptures as well vs. not discussing.

 

[Studyman]

No the Pharisees were the sect with traditions. The Sadducees were not in agreement with their traditions.

Matt. 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Matt. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, (Both) O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Matt. 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.

3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

Matt. 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matt. 22:23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Jesus condemned them both as one. He didn't make a difference between them at all. But you do.

So I am left once again, having to make the choice between what you teach, which is pretty much mainstream religion, and what Jesus actually says.

This isn't my fault, I didn't ask you or influence you to try and make a case for the Sadducees over the Pharisees. I don't know who influenced you to make the distinction. But I have shown you that is wasn't Jesus, because HE treated them both exactly the same.

Levi was in the loins of his father Abraham when Melchizedek met him.

So was Moses. What is your point? Are you trying to teach that Abraham was under the Levitical Priesthood because Levi was in his Loins? If this is truth, then Abraham must also have been under the Law of Moses, because Moses was in his loins as well.

Or are you trying to convince me that Melchizedek was not the High Priest of God in Abraham's time?

What exactly is your point here?

I think you really should read Paul.
Two covenants were made with Abraham and his seed. The women are allegories for these covenants.
Gen 15 speaks of his seed 12 princes
Gen 17 speaks of kings The royal covenant

Ge 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Ga 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

OK, the Covenant God made with Levi on Mt. Sinai, on Israel's behalf gendered to bondage to the Levitical Priesthood. I get that.

No atonement without a human Levitical Priest to provide it. No administration of God's Instructions unless there was a Levite Priest to Administer it. No temple of God, no candle sticks, no Mercy Seat, no alter, nothing from God without a Levite Priest.

But the other Covenant, with Abraham Isaac and Jacob, didn't involve this Levitical Priesthood that was "added" 430 years after Abraham. God called Abraham to "deny Himself, carry his cross, and Follow Him". Abraham did as instructed, out of belief/Faith in God, and for this Faith, shown by his obedience, He was shown mercy. And his children also because as God said;

Gen. 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

What other Covenant did God make on Mt. Sinai? I think you forgetting the Law of Faith that Abraham obeyed, that God gave Israel.

Kings for seed
Ge 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

This is true, from Moses to Jesus there was no other way to God but through this Levitical Priesthood Covenant. And until the sons of Aaron corrupted this Covenant, this way turned "many" away from iniquity. As many in the faith chapter, and Zecharias and Simeon has shown. But the Priest's corrupted God's Covenant with Levi, so God took over the Priesthood Himself. It's all there is your Bible.

James speaks of the law of freedom, and royal law

Yes, the Law of Liberty.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Are these the only "law of Liberty?" No, there is also Doc't steal, Don't Covet, Keep His Sabbath Holy.

The "Law of Liberty" is defined by God, not you or religious men. Mankind has been Judging God's Law of Liberty since Cain hated His Brother for being "Righteous".

Hear Jesus
Mt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? {tribute: called in the original, didrachma, being in value fifteen pence sterling; about thirty seven cents }

What in the world does a Greek tax have to do with salvation?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

I'm not sure your insistence that God's Law is somehow comparable to this nations tax system or another nations tax system.

The mainstream preachers of HIS time tried to trick him with this whole "tribute" the nations of the world demand for people. Jesus didn't fall for they trickery though.

Matt. 22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.

16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.

17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

We know who created the tribute of Caesar, Who created God's Statutes, Commandments, Judgments and Laws? Shall we not render unto God the things that are God's?

Royal law, royal priesthood. Of the Children of the free woman in Christ Jesus.

Yes, as James implied, remember, the same God who said "Love your neighbor as yourself", also said "remember to keep the Sabbath Day Holy." So if religious men judge one Commandment as worthy of their respect, but Judge another Commandment as NOT Worthy of their respect, they are become "transgressors of God's Law"

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8 Draw nigh to God, (First) and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?


The Children of God are not "FREE" from HIS instruction as your religion implies. HIS Children are "FREE" from the Bondage of deception and falsehoods promoted by the "other voices" who come in His Name. The Blood of Christ sets us free from the bondage of sin and deception, and gives us a clean slate so we are FREE to serve Him acceptably. This is a concept that "many" can not accept given they have been taught since their youth that God's Laws are the Burden. If you would "listen to Him" you would find the deception in this teaching.

Heb. 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God (The God of the Bible) is a consuming fire.

 

[Studyman]

Well, I was speaking to your statement here. Seemed you vs them
"Well, I have HOPE and Faith that the Word's of the Word of God which became Flesh are true, therefore, I believe in Him and follow HIS Instruction instead of the "Ministers of Righteousness" who transgress God's Commandments by their own ancient religious traditions."

Well, I just cannot tell to whom you are distinguishing yourself from here.

For me, its all about mutual discussion of the scriptures as well vs. not discussing.

Well then, that is great news. I would ask you a question then. In the Levitical Priesthood, how was a man, who transgressed God's Commandments, justified? How as this man's sin forgiven, according to the Law of Moses?

 

[Studyman]

Well, I was speaking to your statement here. Seemed you vs them
"Well, I have HOPE and Faith that the Word's of the Word of God which became Flesh are true, therefore, I believe in Him and follow HIS Instruction instead of the "Ministers of Righteousness" who transgress God's Commandments by their own ancient religious traditions."

I was responding to this quote from Behold.

"They sound like this.....>"well, i know that Jesus saved me......but now let me show you how i keep from losing my salvation, = See, i dont really trust in Christ, i trust in SELF."""""

I was just trying to follow the instructions of the Holy Scriptures from the heart, so as to answer this implication as to why some men are humbled before the Word's of God. It's not because "they" don't trust in Christ, it's the opposite, its because they DO!!

1 Pet. 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

So I guess it has always been between the "doers" and the "hearers only" in matters of the Scriptures. But not because those who strive to be "doers", as instructed, don't trust in the God of the Bible. Had Eve not listened to the "other religious voice" who convinced that being a "DOER" of the Commandment made her blind, she wouldn't have eaten of the forbidden fruit. And then wouldn't have taught others to do the same. If you find Scriptural fault with this understanding, please share as to what Word's of the Bible teaches against such an understanding. I don't want to be an Eve.

Well, I just cannot tell to whom you are distinguishing yourself from here.

That is my fault for not being more blunt as to the teaching that I see in the religions of the land. It is a cautious line between discussing scriptures with fellow seekers, and conversing as Jesus did with religious men who represent, defend, and promote religious doctrines and traditions of man.

I don't think there are any doubts about Jesus distinguishing Himself from the mainstream preachers of HIS Time, and their doctrines VS the teaching of the Law and Prophets that He promoted. He didn't have ONE SINGLE good word for the mainstream preachers of His time. Not one. He slammed, exposed, and condemned the Preachers of His time every time He spoke to them and about them. I can only assume it is because He had already reasoned with them from the age of 12 to the age of 30 and it was apparent that they would not be persuaded to consider every Word of God.

But to the people who were taught by these corrupt Priests, HE showed total compassion, and suffered many things to teach them the truth of His Father.. It's hard sometimes to distinguish between those self appointed preachers, who will not be persuaded to consider Every Word of God, and those fellow seekers who are truly seeking to know the God of the Bible, but have been led astray by the "other religious voice". Thus the confusion about "whom I am distinguishing myself from here".

For me, its all about mutual discussion of the scriptures as well vs. not discussing.

I look forward to the mutual discussion. I'm sure these kinds of discussions will clarify our perspective regarding the Holy Scriptures.

 

[ralliann]

Well then, that is great news. I would ask you a question then. In the Levitical Priesthood, how was a man, who transgressed God's Commandments, justified? How as this man's sin forgiven, according to the Law of Moses?

We are under a new covenant not like the old covenant. Abraham was not under Moses law and neither were the nations

 

[Studyman]

We are under a new covenant not like the old covenant. Abraham was not under Moses law and neither were the nations

But Moses was in Abraham's loins just like Levi. This is absolute Biblical Truth, Yes? You quoted the scripture, "Levi was in the Loins of Abraham". I asked what your point was. But you refuse to answer.

This is what I mean sir. You "SAY" you are interested in discussions of the scriptures. But when you are asked questions, you refuse to answer.

I asked "How was a man's sins forgiven in the Old Covenant?"

But you refuse to answer. So you "SAY" you want a discussion, but it seems you do not "DO" discussions.

This is nothing new, you don't have to answer questions asked of you. But it seems disingenuous.

Luke 20:3 And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me:

4 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?

5 And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not? 6 But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet. 7 And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was.

 

[Studyman]

We are under a new covenant not like the old covenant. Abraham was not under Moses law and neither were the nations

So then ralliann,

I know we are in a different Covenant now. But if I read the Creator of the New Covenant define what HIS Covenant is, and then I hear a religious man teach about a different Covenant, what shall I do? Shall I not ask you questions about a doctrine this voice is promoting?

Thus the question; In the old Covenant, according to the Holy Scriptures that you say you want to discuss, how were sins forgiven?