SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

LoveGodsWord · Apr 9, 2020

pasifika said:
So youre saying the law wasn't before but after...so people like Abel, Enoch, Noah had the spoken Word before the law was introduced so as the Prophets after the law...

So those righteous people were justified before the law was given, so the law had no effect on their justification....

Romans 2:14...state the Gentiles do Not have the law

No not really. God's Word (not me, the scriptures provided) says before the written law of God there was the spoken Word of God * GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc). That is why it is written in GENESIS 26:5 ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS. God's people have always had God's laws. Gentiles do not believe and follow Gods' Word or know God's Laws so they will perish without God's Law *ROMANS 2:12-13 unless they do by nature what is in the law *ROMANS 2:14 but according to PAUL there is none righteouss no not one *ROMANS 3:9-10.

pasifika · Apr 9, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
No not really. God word (not me, the scriptures provided) says before the written law of God there was the spoken Word of God * GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc). That is why it is written in GENESIS 26:5 ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS. God's people have always had God's laws. Gentiles do not believe and follow Gods' Word or know God's Laws so they will perish without God's Law *ROMANS 2:12-13 unless they do by nature what is in the law *ROMANS 2:14 but according to PAUL there is none righteouss no not one *ROMANS 3:9-10.

Abraham wasn't followed a law that was introduced after him..Galatians 3:17...the law Abraham was followed is Faith...

Romans 2:14...state the Gentiles do Not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are law for themselves...
What law the Gentiles do Not have?
How can anyone do the requirements of the law by "nature"?

LoveGodsWord · Apr 9, 2020

pasifika said:
Abraham wasn't followed a law that was introduced after him..Galatians 3:17...the law Abraham was followed is Faith...

Romans 2:14...state the Gentiles do Not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are law for themselves...
What law the Gentiles do Not have?
How can anyone do the requirements of the law by "nature"?

This is already answered in the post you are quoting from. What is it you did not understand dear friend?

pasifika · Apr 9, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
This is already answered in the post you are quoting from. What is it you did not understand dear friend?

What Law the Gentiles do Not have Romans 2:14? And what law written in their hearts Romans 2:15

LoveGodsWord · Apr 9, 2020

pasifika said:
What Law the Gentiles do Not have Romans 2:14? And what law written in their hearts Romans 2:15

The answer was already provided in the post you were quoting from earlier. Gentiles do not believe and follow Gods' Word or know God's Laws so they will perish without God's Law *ROMANS 2:12-13 unless they do by nature what is in the law *ROMANS 2:14 but according to PAUL there is none righteouss no not one *ROMANS 3:9-10. What is it you do not understand dear friend?

pasifika · Apr 9, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
The answer was already provided in the post you were quoting from earlier. Gentiles do not believe and follow Gods' Word or know God's Laws so they will perish without God's Law *ROMANS 2:12-13 unless they do by nature what is in the law *ROMANS 2:14 but according to PAUL there is none righteouss no not one *ROMANS 3:9-10. What is it you do not understand dear friend?

Romans 2:14 did not say Gentiles did not believe or follow Gods law...
It says, Gentiles who do Not have the law...So the question is what law did the Gentiles do Not have?

LoveGodsWord · Apr 9, 2020

pasifika said:
Romans 2:14 did not say Gentiles did not believe or follow Gods law...
It says, Gentiles who do Not have the law...So the question is what law did the Gentiles do Not have?

Read ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3 Paul is not saying Gentiles follow the law as they do not know the law. He is saying both JEWS and GENTILES are all under sin or have broken the law and that if gentiles do the things in the law they are a law unto themselves another words not condemned by the law. Paul is not saying gentiles do not sin. Read the chapters. Your interpretation of ROMANS 2:14 deletes ROMANS 2:12-13 which says the opposite of how your interpretating v14.

pasifika · Apr 9, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Read ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3 Paul is not saying Gentiles follow the law as they do not know the law. He is saying both JEWS and GENTILES are all under sin or have broken the law and that if gentiles do the things in the law they are a law unto themselves another words not condemned by the law. Paul is not saying gentiles do not sin. Read the chapters. Your interpretation of ROMANS 2:14 deletes ROMANS 2:12-13 which says the opposite of how your interpretating v14.

Well, you're not answering a simple question...what law the Gentiles Do Not have...according to Romans 2:14? What law?

LoveGodsWord · Apr 9, 2020

pasifika said:
Well, you're not answering a simple question...what law the Gentiles Do Not have...according to Romans 2:14? What law?

Not really dear friend. I believe your ignoring the scripture in the very posts you are quoting from. What do you think my post and scriptures provided mean to you?

JLB777 · Apr 10, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response...

Sure it does you did not read the scriptures provided in the post you are quoting from did you. Those who are "under the law" according to ROMANS 3:19 are all those who stand guilty before God of knowingly breaking the law. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and just like any of Gods' 10 commandmens if we knowingly break it we stang guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.

Hmm nope!

What is the meaning of the handwriting of “ORDINANCES” that was blotted out and nailed to the cross *COLOSSIANS 2:14? Let's have a look? Happy to look at the chapter context as well if you like?

GREEK meaning; blotting out (G1813; ἐξαλείφω; exaleiphō; ex-al-i'-fo; means to obliterate; erase; wipe away) the handwriting of ordinances which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to the cross. The Greek words used here is handwriting G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written legal document which is combined with ordinance G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law: - decree; The Greek meaning of handwriting of ordinances in V14 is a hand written legal document or book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. These are the laws referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and are nailed to the cross.

The handwriting of ORDINANCES {Mosaic laws for meat and drink offerings and annual festivals that have their fulfilment in Jesus} has been blotted out. They were the shadows. They were all prophetic in nature, teaching the plan of salvation which pointing to Jesus as the true lamb of God and our great high priest and His Work on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary. (Leviticus 1; 3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Number 6-8; 15; 28-29; Deut 12; 33; Ex 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28)

Nope nothing about God's 10 commandments there.

Your confused dear friend. Here is why. The law of sin and death is the sinful human nature's condemnation and the penalty for sin (death) not the God's 10 commandments.

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sorry dear friend seem like God's Word disagrees with you

Hmm not really dear friend. In the old covenant under the civil laws of the nation of ISRAEL God's people were put to death for openly breaking nearly anyone of God's 10 commandments. This penalty was not restricted to only God's 4th commandment. For example the death penalty under the CIVIL laws of ISRAEL for most of the other 10 commandments are found here... *DEUTERONOMY 13:6-18; 1 SAMUEL 26:19; DEUTERONOMY 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15; DEUTERONOMY 7:25-26; LEVITICUS 24:10-17; EXODUS 31:14-15; 35:2; LEVITICUS 20:9; DEUTERONOMY 21:18-21; EXODUS 21:17; EXODUS 21:12-14; LEVITICUS 20; JOHN 8:5; EXODUS 21:16; DEUTERONOMY 19:15-21. That was to teach God's people the wages of SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) is death as it does in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 6:23 although JESUS says vengence is mine at his 2nd coming *ROMANS 12:17-19; REVELATION 22:12.

These scriptures teach, no more sin offerings in the new covenant *HEBREWS 7; HEBREWS 8; HEBREWS 9 and HEBREWS 10. We are in the new covenant now not the old. The sin offerings are laws in ordinances for remission of sin not God's 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11. Where are the sin offering ordinances in God's 4th commandment? There is none. So no they are not required as all the sin offerings pointed to JESUS.

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY (GENESIS 2:3).
[9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work:
[10], BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD (God’s Word defining what the Sabbath is; it is the seventh day; GENSIS 2:2) : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates:
[11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: WHY THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY, AND MADE IT HOLY (refers back to GENESIS 2:1-3).

Nope nothing here in God's 4th commandment about the laws for remission of sins and sin offeriengs

Hope this helps

Why do you keep posting scriptures that pertain to the law of Moses and the Sabbath requirements of that time?

What is relevant to the Church today under the New Covenant is what we are discussing.

It seems you are confused.

Maybe if you would simply show us what the Church is required to do concerning the Sabbath, from the New Testament scriptures, it would help.

Under the law of Moses, the children of Israel were not allowed to so much as gather sticks to build a fire for cooking on the Sabbath.

Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36

Is that what the New Testament teaches?

What exactly is required of the Church concerning the Sabbath today?

Here are two scriptures from the New Testament concerning the requirements of the Church.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:14-17

Sabbaths (Plural) includes all sabbaths.

again

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5

If you believe the Church must keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses then that would mean the Church must also become physically circumcised as well.

Please show us what Jesus and the Apostles required Christians to do for the Sabbath, from the New Testament scriptures.

JLB

JLB777 · Apr 10, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Naa not really. If what your saying is true whos sabbaths are these?

Lam 1:7 Jerusalem remembered in the days of HER SABBATHS and of her miseries all her pleasant things that she had in the days of old, when her people fell into the hand of the enemy, and none did help her: the adversaries saw her, and did mock at HER SABBATHS.

Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned my holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.

Hos 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, HER FEAST DAYS, HER NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER SOLEMN FEASTS.

BOOM! Did ya catch that? Seems according to the scriptures there are sabbaths that God claims are not his. Now which sabbaths is Colossians 2:16 talking about. Colossians 2:16 does not say "ALL SABBATHS" as you claim. Where is that in the scriptures dear friend or are you reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not teach? - Yep not in the scriptures so your reading into the scriptures what the scriptures do not teach.

Now which sabbaths is Colossians 2:16 talking about? Did you read the OP yet? Is Colossians 2:16 talking about...

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54
9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

Sorry but "sabbaths" does not say "all sabbath". If it did you think someone would have told Paul about it who's custom was to keep the Sabbath *Acts of the apostles 17. Sorry dear friend I believe God's Word does not agree with you.

Scripture please

Please show us from Acts 17 exactly how Paul commanded the Church to observe the Sabbath.

Are we supposed to offer a spotless lamb without blemish?

And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10

JLB

JLB777 · Apr 10, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
No problem. Most of the laws for remission of sins, the levitical Priesthood and the Sanctuary services are shadow laws in ordinances from the Mosiac book of the old covenant. You can read about their fulfillment in the new covenant in *HEBREWS 7:1-28; HEBREWS 8:1-13; HEBREWS 9:28 and HEBREWS 10:1-25 and COLOSSIANS 2:1-23 and elsewhere. In the Old covenant many (not all) of these laws can be found in LEVITICUS 1:1-17; LEVITICUS 2:1-16; LEVITICUS 3:1-17; LEVITICUS 4:1-35; LEVITICUS 5:1-19; LEVITICUS 6:1-30; LEVITICUS 7:1-38; LEVITICUS 8:1-36; LEVITICUS 9:1-24; LEVITICUS 10:1-20.

God's moral laws are all based on God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:1-17 where is was spoken by God and written with Gods' own finger on two tables of stone *EXODUS 32:16 or spoken by Moses in Deuteronomy 5. They are our duty of LOVE to God and man as quoted by JESUS in MATTHEW 22:36-40 from LEVITICUS 19:18 and DEUTERONOMY 6:5. There are many other moral laws throughout the torah that are God's judgements (if you do this then this will happen to you).

Yep God separated these laws as you can see through the scriptures here...

There are many laws in the Torah (Book of the law) which include; the civil laws for the nation of Israel (e.g. LEVITICUS 19:15; DEUTERONOMY 22:1-4;LEVITICUS 23:34-43; DEUTERONOMY 31:10; DEUTERONOMY 22:19; DEUTERONOMY 22:5; NUMBERS 18:26; 26:53-56; 36:8-12; LEVITICUS 24:17-23; DEUTERONOMY 19:14; LEVITICUS 25; LEVITICUS 19:35 etc), the ceremonial laws and ordinances for remission of sins (including the laws for sin offerings, sanctuary service, Levitical Priesthood, annual feasts etc) *LEVITICUS 23:1-25; NUMBERS 29:39; LEVITICUS 11:1-47; LEVITICUS 16:1-28;17:1-16; NUMBERS 29:39; EXODUS 29:1-46; LEVITICUS 7:1-37; LEVITICUS 21,22; LEVITICUS 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc, the laws for health and hygeine *LEVITICUS 11 to LEVITICUS 20 etc) as well as Gods' moral laws which include God's 10 commandments (EXODUS 20:1-17) and judgements (from EXODUS 21 onwards). The moral judgements (from EXODUS 21 and elsewhere) were not God's 10 commandments (דּבר; dâbâr; oral commandments) *EXODUS 20:1 that were written on stone with the finger of God *EXODUS 32:16 but were God's judgements (משׁפּט; mishpâṭ) of moral actions written in the book of the law by Moses *see EXODUS 21:1; 24:3. For example do this and this consequence will happen.

Have you ever wondered why there are scriptures like these...

LEVITICUS 18:5 You shall therefore keep my STATUTES, and my JUDGEMENTS: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

NUMBERS 36:13 These are the COMMANDMENTS and the JUDGEMENTS, which the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses to the children of Israel in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho. And if you shall despise my STATUTES, or if your soul abhor my JUDGEMENTS, so that you will not do all my COMMANDMENTS, but that you break my covenant:

DEUTERONOMY 5:31 But as for you, stand you here by me, and I will speak to you all the COMMANDMENTS, AND THE STATUTES, AND THE JUDGEMENTS, which you shall teach them, that they may do them in the land which I give them to possess it.

DEUTERONOMY 6:1 Now these are the COMMANDMENTS, the STATUTES, and the JUDGEMENTS, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that you might do them in the land where you go to possess it:

DEUTERONOMY 7:11 You shall therefore keep the COMMANDMENTS, AND THE STATUTES, AND THE JUDGEMENTS, which I command you this day, to do them.

DEUTERONOMY 8:11 Beware that you forget not the LORD your God, in not keeping his COMMANDMENTS, AND HIS JUDGEMENTS, AND HIS STATUTES, which I command you this day:

DEUTERONOMY 11:1 Therefore you shall love the LORD your God, and keep his charge, and his STATUTES, AND HIS JUDGEMENTS, AND HIS COMMANDMENTS, always.

1 KINGS 2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, to KEEP HIS STATUTES, AND HIS COMMANDMENTS, AND HIS JUDGEMENTS, AND HIS TESTIMONIES, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES, that you may prosper in all that you do, and wherever you turn yourself:

1 KINGS 6:12 Concerning this house which you are in building, if you will walk in my statutes, and execute my JUDGEMENTS, AND KEEP ALL MY COMMANDMENTS to walk in them; then will I perform my word with you, which I spoke to David your father:

1 KINGS 8:58 That he may incline our hearts to him, to walk in all his ways, and to KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, AND HIS STATUTES, AND HIS JUDGEMENTS, which he commanded our fathers.

1 CHRONICLES 28:7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom for ever, if he be constant to do my COMMANDMENTS AND MY JUDGEMENTS, as at this day.

LEVITICUS 18:4 You shall do my JUDGEMENTS, and keep my ORDINANCES, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.

GENESIS 26:5 [5], Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my CHARGE, my COMMANDMENTS, my STATUTES, and my LAWS.

...........

Ok overload I know, there are too many scriptures here and more I have not provided. The point being made here is that it is God that separates His LAW (10 commandments) from those written in the Mosaic book of the law. You quoting from EXODUS 22:22 not afflicting widows and orphans is one of God's JUDGEMENTS from EXODUS 21:1 (context).

As seen from the scirptures above God's 10 commandments are separated from the other laws in the book of the law. Also according to the scriptures God separated His LAW (10 commandments written on the tables of stone) from the Mosaic book of the law within the Ark of the covenant when he placed the Tables of stone inside the ark and the book of the law of Moses in the side of the Ark. *DEUTERONOMY 10:4-5. DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26

I will not derail this thread and may start up a new thread on this a little latter if I have some time and there is some interest. As shown above the bible does indeed differentiate between God's law (10 commandments) and the other laws written in the Mosaic book of the law. Some are eternal and written on stone and some are prophetic in nature written in the book of the law which are shadows of things to come pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant. *HEBREWS 10:1-17. The reason is one set of laws are forever (God's 10 commandments) to be written on the heart to love through the Spirit and the rest are shadows of better things to come.

Hope this helps

Are you saying the Church must keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses?

Do you believe it’s a sin to rest at home on the Sabbath?

Do you believe it’s a sin to attend Church on another day, other than the Sabbath?

JLB

Bob S · Apr 10, 2020

There are millions upon millions of people that have never stepped into a church that have high moral values. How do you suppose this happens?

People come on to the forum telling us that Abraham had the laws that God gave only to Israel have never proven this to be a fact. Duet 5 tells us a different story than what those people are telling us. Then they tell us we have to keep the Sabbath, the one God gave only to Israel, or we will go to Hell. I would like to know when keeping a day became salvational? Only when I became a Sabbath "keeper" ( I use parentheses because keeping is a misnomer in the case of their Sabbath observing) was I taught that I had to be under the Sabbath law to be saved. Before and since I learned that I am saved by faith in Jesus bestowed Grace.

The Sabbath thing is just another way to try to convince the uneducated to become part of their ranks. Numbers mean so much to some people. The bigger the number the more revenue those big businesses have to thrive on and big numbers make such a good impression. Other churches use different tactics. Those that join their ranks remind me of worker ants dedicated to their hierarchy. Ants are so programmed that they will follow each other in a line and when we put an obstacle in their way they try to remove it and if they can't they find a way around it. If Sabbath triers can't remove the obstacle they try to go around it or ignore it.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 10, 2020

JLB777 said:
Why do you keep posting scriptures that pertain to the law of Moses and the Sabbath requirements of that time?

What is relevant to the Church today under the New Covenant is what we are discussing.

It seems you are confused.

Maybe if you would simply show us what the Church is required to do concerning the Sabbath, from the New Testament scriptures, it would help.

Under the law of Moses, the children of Israel were not allowed to so much as gather sticks to build a fire for cooking on the Sabbath.

Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36

Is that what the New Testament teaches?

What exactly is required of the Church concerning the Sabbath today?

Here are two scriptures from the New Testament concerning the requirements of the Church.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:14-17

Sabbaths (Plural) includes all sabbaths.

again

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5

If you believe the Church must keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses then that would mean the Church must also become physically circumcised as well.

Please show us what Jesus and the Apostles required Christians to do for the Sabbath, from the New Testament scriptures.

JLB

Thankyou dear friend I always provide scripture because I believe only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

As shown through these same scriptures there is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a teaching and tradition of men that has lead many to break the commandments of God that JESUS directly warns us not to do in MATTHEW 15:2-15.

According to God's Word I believe the scriptures define "SIN" as not believing God's Word *ROMANS 14:23 and knowingly breaking anyone of God's 10 Commandments when we receive a knowledge of God's Word and reject it *1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11; ACTS 17:30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

I believe God's people are in every Church living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them *JOHN 10:16; JAMES 4:17. According to the scriptures however the hour is coming and now is that the true worshippers will worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 4:23-24.

BABYLON the great mother of harlots has fallen and God is calling His people out where ever they may be back to the pure Word of God. Who will here the call to go out and meet the bridegroom? Not those who's lamps have gone out and have lost their ways.

God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow because they are not His Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27.

Sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandment) will keep all those who knowingly continue to practice it out of God's Kingdom because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do dispite to the Spirit of God *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-31.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 10, 2020

JLB777 said:
Are you saying the Church must keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses?Do you believe it’s a sin to rest at home on the Sabbath?Do you believe it’s a sin to attend Church on another day, other than the Sabbath?

We no longer follow laws in ordinances from the Mosaic book of the law. God's LAW (10 commadments) are not laws in ordinaces and are not the law of MOSES they are the law of God which is written and spoken by God alone *EXODUS 32:16; EXODUS 20:1-17 and are written in the heart to love through the Spirit to those who believe and follow God's Word *HEBREWS 8:10-12; GALATIANS 5:16. Love therefore fulfills and establishes God's LAW in the lives of all those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word and walk in newness of life *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 6:1-23; 1 JOHN 3:4-9. Those who practice sin and those who do not is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. Truly I say to you unless we are born again we will not enter into the kingdom of heaven *JOHN 3:3-7. Please read post # 701 linked.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 10, 2020

Bob S said:
There are millions upon millions of people that have never stepped into a church that have high moral values. How do you suppose this happens?

People come on to the forum telling us that Abraham had the laws that God gave only to Israel have never proven this to be a fact. Duet 5 tells us a different story than what those people are telling us. Then they tell us we have to keep the Sabbath, the one God gave only to Israel, or we will go to Hell. I would like to know when keeping a day became salvational? Only when I became a Sabbath "keeper" ( I use parentheses because keeping is a misnomer in the case of their Sabbath observing) was I taught that I had to be under the Sabbath law to be saved. Before and since I learned that I am saved by faith in Jesus bestowed Grace.

The Sabbath thing is just another way to try to convince the uneducated to become part of their ranks. Numbers mean so much to some people. The bigger the number the more revenue those big businesses have to thrive on and big numbers make such a good impression. Other churches use different tactics. Those that join their ranks remind me of worker ants dedicated to their hierarchy. Ants are so programmed that they will follow each other in a line and when we put an obstacle in their way they try to remove it and if they can't they find a way around it. If Sabbath triers can't remove the obstacle they try to go around it or ignore it.

Not really Bob, God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11 that give us the knowledge of what sin is under the new covenant scriptures *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7 and according to these scriptures if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's kingdom because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of His covenant and unholy thing *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a teaching and tradition of man that has led many to break Gods' law either ignorantly or knowingly. In times of ignorance God winks at and calls all men everywhere when they have received a knowledge of his truth to hear and follow His Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. If we reject God's Word when we have been given a knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come *HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Bob S · Apr 11, 2020

The ten commandments gave Israel a recap of a few sins and the new Sabbath command. The greatest sin in all the World is and has always been not loving God and our fellow man, hatred. Guess what? It is not one of the ten commandments. Paul mentions a few of the many that were left out of the ten.
fornication,
uncleanness,
lasciviousness,
Idolatry,
witchcraft,
hatred,
variance,
emulations,
wrath,
strife,
seditions,
heresies,
Envyings,
murders,
drunkenness,
revellings, and the list goes on and on.

The ten commandments were given to one nation, Israel. They WERE part of the Sinai covenant. That covenant no longer is the guide of Israel. The World is under the Royal Law of Love. Sin is transgression of the Royal Law of Love.

The references used in the above post do not mean that Jews are still under those laws. God gave them a new covenant with new commandments. Gentiles were never under the laws given to Israel at Sinai. It has never been a sin for Gentiles not to observe Sabbath. Likewise it is not a sin for Christians to worship corporately any day we choose.

I Rom 7:7 Paul wrote the following: 7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, ‘You shall not covet. Paul learned those things from the law, he also learned the Sabbath from the Law. I wonder where he learned fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and the list goes on and on.

In Heb 10:26 we read: If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

In previous posts I have revealed the fact that those who believe they are still under the Sabbath law of the old covenant sin repeatedly every week by not doing what the following verse told the Israelites. Is 58: 13 ‘If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honourable, and if you honour it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, 14 then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.’ For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

Of course there is no Sabbath requirement so those who do speak idle words are really not sinning. When I was a SDA I thought I was sinning each week because inevitably I would break Is 58. This went on for several years after joining their ranks then I came to the conclusion that God couldn't save me because of Heb 10:26. What a terrible way to live, but I did live with what I thought was the truth. After all Ellen wrote that not one in twenty SDAs, at that time, were ready for translation. Had I not been such a conscientious SDA I guess I would still be there overlooking all the real facts.

Yesterday we commemorated the greatest act of love the World has ever witnessed. Jesus last words on the Cross were "it is finished". He brought to an end the prophecies concerning His coming. He kept what man couldn't and ushered in the new covenant for all mankind to live by. Most of all He bore the sins of the World before, during and after His death. Tomorrow we celebrate Jesus triumphant resurrection, that gives the hope for all mankind of life after this life. All our Savior asks of us is found in 1Jn3: 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 11, 2020

Bob S said:
The ten commandments gave Israel a recap of a few sins and the new Sabbath command. The greatest sin in all the World is and has always been not loving God and our fellow man, hatred. Guess what? It is not one of the ten commandments. Paul mentions a few of the many that were left out of the ten.
fornication,
uncleanness,
lasciviousness,
Idolatry,
witchcraft,
hatred,
variance,
emulations,
wrath,
strife,
seditions,
heresies,
Envyings,
murders,
drunkenness,
revellings, and the list goes on and on.

Yea? Not really Bob. Why? Love is not separated from God's LAW it establishes God's LAW and is a part of God' new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. This is why JESUS says on these two great commandments of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to man HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. Paul agrees with JESUS in Romans when he says...

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.

Note: the Greek word used here for FULFILLED G4137 πληρόω; plēroō means to execute and to satisfy; to accomplish; to perfect; to complete; to perfect or to supply or give. The context is the law nomos; application and context is the 10 commandments.

[9], For this, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Note: Paul is agreeing with what JESUS says in MATTHEW 22:36-40 where he says on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets. Paul is showing in that to love our neighbore it is demonstrated and by not committing adultery, not killing, not stealing or bearing false witness or coveting. Then Paul is saying that these commandments of our duty of love to our neighbore is "SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF" v9 and finally LOVE is the fulfilling of God's commandments.

James says the same thing as JESUS and PAUL here...

JAMES 2:10-11 [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

MATTHEW 5:20 is interesting because on the OUTSIDE the Scribes and Pharisees as JESUS taught appeared righteous to men. Outwardly blameless in regards to following God's 10 commandments but INWARDLY JESUS says they were full of SIN (breaking God's LAW) *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS says; For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven *MATTHEW 5:20. The scripture in ISAIAH 42:21 was posted to show that JESUS came to teach the true meaning of God's LAW and that is it is to be applied to the ISIDE OUT not for OUT SIDE IN appearance to appear rightouess to men but inwardly full of SIN. God reads the HEART and KNOWS we are all sick with SIN *MATTHEW 15:19-20; MATTHEW 12:34-35; JEREMIAH 13:23; JEREMIAH 17:9-10; MATTHEW 15:19-20; JOHN 5:42 and in need of a Savior from SIN. Many do not know the meaning here MATTHEW 9:12-13.

This is leading to the NEW COVENANT PROMISE of a NEW HEART to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 5:42; 1 JOHN 5:17-19; 1 JOHN 4:16; 1 JOHN 5:3; 1 JOHN 4:8.

We do not have the LOVE of GOD in us *JOHN 5:42. We need to be BORN OF GOD to LOVE *1 JOHN 4:7 and partake of the NEW COVENANT promise. This is why JESUS teaches in *JOHN 3:3-7 that UNLESS we are made CLEAN from the INSIDE OUT and BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. This is what JESUS is talking about in MATTHEW 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's LAW from the INSIDE OUT.

Whosoever is BORN of GOD to LOVE in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12 does not commit SIN *1 JOHN 3:9; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 3:31; MATTHEW 22:36-40. This is the GOOD NEWS of the Gospels in the NEW COVENANT we have a SAVIOUR to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.

1 JOHN 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are BORN AGAIN to LOVE and it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This results in a people that keep God's LAW (10 commandments) from the INSIDE OUT. *REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; HEBREWS 8:10-12. Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7.

So what the conclusion of the matter?

ECCLESIASTES 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN.

God’s LAW (10 commandments) are not abolished they are fulfilled and established in the life of a believer as they believe God’s Word and abide in Christ and walk in God’s Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:4.

Sorry Bob seems God's Word disagrees with you.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 11, 2020

Bob S said:
The ten commandments were given to one nation, Israel. They WERE part of the Sinai covenant. That covenant no longer is the guide of Israel. The World is under the Royal Law of Love. Sin is transgression of the Royal Law of Love.The references used in the above post do not mean that Jews are still under those laws. God gave them a new covenant with new commandments. Gentiles were never under the laws given to Israel at Sinai.

Not really Bob but here is why. ISRAEL is simply a word that God gives to those who believe and follow God's Word. In the new coevenant all those who believe and follow Gods' Word are a part of God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL by believing and following God's Word you have no part in God's new covenant promise which is to God's ISRAEL..

HEBREWS 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:5 and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

God's ISRAEL is not those of the flesh but of the Spirit...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL, WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

Bob, if you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in God's NC promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in with all those who believe and follow God's Word *ROMANS 11:13-27

As shown in the last post here love is not separate from God's LAW it sums it up and fulfills it in the life of those who believe and follow God's Word (please see scripture support in post # 778 linked).

Bob S said:
It has never been a sin for Gentiles not to observe Sabbath. Likewise it is not a sin for Christians to worship corporately any day we choose.

Sorry Bob that is simple not biblical. If what you are claiming is true how can these Words of Paul be true... ROMANS 3:9 [9], What then? are we better than they (gentiles)? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin

"SIN" is defined in God's Word (not mine) as not believing God's Word *ROMANS 14:23 and knowingly breaking anyone of God's 10 Commandments when we receive a knowledge of God's Word and reject it *1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-27. There was no JEW or GENTILE when God made the Sabbath for ALL mankind at creation *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:17.

The rest of your post here Bob is simply repitition and has already been addressed elsewhere. If you would like me to comments on anything specifically please let me know.

Hope this is helpful.

JLB777 · Apr 12, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Thankyou dear friend I always provide scripture because I believe only God's Word is true

Unfortunately you don’t provide any scriptures from the New Testament where Jesus or His Apostles commanded the Church to observe the Sabbath as the law of Moses required.

Do you offer unblemished lambs as a sacrifice each Sabbath?

And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10

Do you cook on the Sabbath?

Do you travel on the Sabbath?

Do you believe it’s a sin to go to Church on Sunday?

Maybe if you would answer my questions instead of ignore them, it might make for a meaningful discussion.

JLB

SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

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