Is walking in the "free indeed" Jesus promised actually possible.... in THIS life?

Gideons300 said:

Thirty-eight years as a Christian and I had tried everything...... Eventually, I simply ran out of things to try.

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Gideons300 said:

One night, I cried out to God...

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Gideons300 said:

My confusion was overwhelming...

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Gideons300 said:

But Jesus was not finished talking.

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Gideons300 said:

I will let you digest this and will write more in a bit.

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Gideons300 said:

I am sure I am sharing more than you bargained for, but I could not live with myself if I did not share what God shared with me.

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Gideons300 said:

I am sure I am sharing more than you bargained for, but I could not live with myself if I did not share what God shared with me. It has been thirteen years ago since that amazing night, and in that time, sin's power was broken... crushed... my hard legalistic exterior has softened to the point I can hardly recognize myself, and spiritual fruits.... love, joy, peace, etc., have actually begun to grow in me! Amazing God!

So what was it He shared? What had I missed in my understanding of Romans 6?

Romans 6... Here Paul begins telling us that there are two critical truths we were to KNOW as truth.

1) When Christ died, so DID we.

2) When Christ rose from the dead, so DID we.

Ok....so what? Most of us believe that, right? Where have we missed anything? When I look back on my own personal search for the truth that sets free indeed, where we are brought to a place we are not just forgiven but also no longer commit sins, I have to laugh.

I was like an old miner panning for gold. Everyday, I would go down to the creek to see if I could find a little nugget, and every day, I would have to crawl over the boulders that prevented my access. What do you think my response was when I finally had my eyes opened to the truth that the boulders were actually pure gold?

Ok, ready for the eye opener? Immediately after acknowledging these two truths listed above, Paul then tells us we must DO something! Whoa. And it was something I had read over and over... had memorized..... but never understood until God opened my understanding so I could DO it... the missing piece to our puzzle.

And what was it He told us to do through Paul? He told us that therefore, based upon the sureness of the above truths, to reckon our old man to be dead. Not dying, slowly, over four decades, but dead. DEAD.

Oh, I pray those who read this get it. We are asked to appropriate His death as ours. We are told to appropriate His new life as ours. This reckoning is our depositing these truths into our spiritual bank account. How? By faith!

Do we not see? We have believed the truths with our heads as nice wonderful truths, but there they profit us nothing, not until we, by faith, PUT OFF our old nature, consider it out of the equation, and PUT ON our new natures, believing we really are new inside.

Why do you think we are told we must be born again? Golden boulders. LOL.

Are we instantaneously perfect, brimming with spiritual fruits? Ha, I wish! BUT, when we finally come into agreement with God, that we... the old carnal us.... is dead, and that our life is hid with Christ in God, our sanctification process begins!

We do not get sanctified by slowly dying to our carnality and slowly growing into saints. NO. Here it is in scripture forcyou who are confused. In Revelation, in the last days, the saints will turn into overcomers by combining a) the blood of the Lamb (check) with ....are you ready?..... b) the word of OUR testimony! Glory!

Guys, this is the shield of faith God has given us. These are the robes of righteousness we are told to put on. We may possess shields. But shields not wielded do not to stop the incessant blows of the enemy, as our lives fully display. We may have nice new robes of righteousness, but until we put them on, casting off our fleshly nature as a dirty cloth, we cannot walk pleasing to God no matter how hard we try.

We as His people are about to be awakened to this truth. The tares will mock at the simplicity of this amazing truth. But I am witness to the fact what God shared with me works. Have I arrived? Ha! But I would also be negligent if I did not testify that what God has done these past years since my miraculous visitation is beyond my wildest hopes and dreams.

Putting on our new nature by faith is the beginning. KEEPING it on is imperative. Satan will come and try to pry those words out of our mouths, getting us to accept that we are.... sigh... just sinners saved by grace... but that is not who we are, nor who we have been since the day we were saved. We ARE new creatures, but up til now, satan has blinded us to the truth and unbelief has gripped our hearts.

That time is over. Ready for an adventure that your mind could not even have dreamed up? Abiding IN Christ 24/7? Impossible? Not according to our God. Who we believe in the end will determine everything. Let us cast off our unbelief that has limited the Holy One working in us from the inside out. I promise any and all who read these words, no matter how weak you may be, no matter how addicted you are to your besetting sins, God will roll up His sleeves and prove His strength to you, IN YOU, if you will but finally agree with Him.

The old you is dead. The new you, still wrapped in grave clothes like Lazarus, is ready to be revealed like a butterfly emerging from its cocoon. Believe it and prepare to be amazed.



blessings,



Gideon

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Gideons300 said:

We do not seem in agreement, That is okay. At some point, perhaps we will. Be blessed.

Gids

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Charlie24 said:

Some years ago I watched a series of messages on Rom. 6-8 by Jimmy Swaggart.

It is amazing what Paul has given us from Christ on who we are in Christ and how to win the victory.

Swaggart says that Romans is the center of God's word and chapters 6-8 is where victory is found in Christ.

It gave me a whole new look at justification by faith in Christ.

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Josheb said:

That's not true.

In the future say, "Nothing I tried worked," or "Nothing I tried worked the way I tried it." Don't say everything was tried and then X worked. This should have been learned somewhere in the 8 years as a pastor.

Something worked!

Would you say crying out to God is something new?If it wasn't new then why did it work this time and not on prior occasions?

Yeah, I don't think you're free and clear of that yet.

Does that guy ever finish talking? I mean if I sit down, close my mouth, and listen there is always something new to hear.

Gideons300, with all due respect, what you're describing is something most mature Christians understand well. There's nothing special about this story. This is the normal Christian life.

I am very pleased to read of your victory over using inappropriate contentography. I am. I do not want my next words to take away from that victory at all, nor any truth that may have been learned along the way. However, what you've told the forum is loaded with greater concern. You've just told us that for 38 years you pastored with a master other than Christ. What you've just told us is your marriage included 38 years of infidelity. Ephesians 4 tells us Jesus gave us pastors for at least three purposes: maturity, unity, and Christ-likeness. We, the sheep, rely on shepherds to help us become those three things and you've just gone on record reporting a paucity in your own life as you presumably endeavored to help others. I'm not saying that is unusual, but I'll bet right this moment you're feeling feelings that indicate more work is to be done.

I'll stop with those three concerns because the list is long but the general points are made: you are not done yet and if you are in a position of leadership then that too is a problem and more obedience is required. More fellowship, forthcominness, accountability, and victory are warranted.

I do not need to digest this.

You do.




I hope. I hope you have learned the need to develop, stay in, and use accountability relationships.
First with God and second with others in the body of Christ God provides. Vertical. Horizontal. The cross does not exist without both. Confession followed by repentance, followed by restitution (and commensurate penalty), forgiveness and then finally reconciliation are the tools of healing and victory for those in Christ Jesus. Many think forgiveness is the final step in healing but it is not. I wonder what amends you think you can make to the wife whose heart was broken when she suddenly learned there were other women to whom you gave fidelity and those women were young made up prostitutes. That is the story your should be telling folks: how you provided a new heart to someone whose heart you broke.

Because I can buy you a new lawn mower, or have my insurance fix the car I dented, but I am not knowledgeable nor powerful enough to give out new an never-affected hearts.

At the root of dependency idols there is always a flawed element of theology. We have believed something we should not have believed. That is something that might help others. Tell that story. Yes, doing so will expose you. It will expose us, too. Those who bless you will demonstrate a heart that blesses and those that criticize a heart that is critical. Neither or both might include correction so correction should not be confused or conflated with either. Correction is not rejection. And this is perhaps one of the greatest lessons to be learned from your testimony.

God corrected you but did not reject you.

Most of us do not need to digest that, Gideons300. We understand this as a function of our own growth in Christ. We wonder why a pastor of 38 years would think this is something that needs digesting.

So don't get mad at me. That will just evidence the veracity of what I have posted. You say you want us to digest this op apparently because you have more to share. Mmmm... okay. Share wisely.
.

Yeah, okay.

What, exactly, was the "bargain" you made?

What did you think would happen to you if this op wasn't shared?

Do you think posibbily maybe perhaps God asked you to share to bring these replies to you for your further consideration, healing, and/or victory? If so, then let's have that conversation.

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Gideons300 said:

We do not seem in agreement...

Gids

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topher694 said:

oooooh cool! Can I nitpick your words and judge your testimony next? Please!

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Gideons300 said:

This is my testimony as to not only the possibility of each of us walking as an overcomer, victorious over the world the flesh and the devil, but its sureness!

I have been a inappropriate content addict since I was 12. I got saved at 21 and thought it would end. It did not. Thirty-eight years as a Christian and I had tried everything. I had water fasted for 21 days. was a home pastor. Jail ministry. Memorized tons of the new testament. Accountability partner. Prayed constantly. Three services a week. Bot matter how I tried to get the victory, eventually I would return to the sin I hated. I was the poster boy for Romans 7 and of all men most miserable.

Eventually, I simply ran out of things to try. One night, I cried out to God, telling Him that His way was too high, too hard and I could not do it. Then it happened.

My room was filled with a blinding golden light. Did I see His face? No, for His presence put me on my face and tears blinded my eyes. Amazement, terror, joy, take your pick. And then He spoke to me. It was not what I expected.

"For this, my son, I am well pleased with you."

Confused? Yeah, me too. LOL. It made no sense. I had just confessed to Him my total inability to obey Him. I had longed to hear or feel like God was pleased with me for decades, and I never did. If I read ten chapters before bed, I should have read twenty. That part about there being no condemnation? Yeah, right. It was my daily bread because of my addictive sin.

My confusion was overwhelming, until Jesus spoke again. and what He said explained everything.

"I knew all along you could not walk the walk I had for you, but you did not yet know it."

Ah, that little word YET. I finally knew it. I wanted to obey Him in all things. I could not, no matter how hard I tried. I had come to the terrible, wonderful place where I had no strength. No confidence in the flesh. Totally empty. Totally looking away from MY strength. It is a hard place to get to, especially for a proud legalist like I was.

But Jesus was not finished talking.

"In all your tryings to walk pleasing to me, did you ever do what I instructed you to do through my servant Paul?"

He did not wait for an answer. He simply opened my eyes to my error. It was, not surprisingly, found in Romans 6. I knew instinctively that Romans 6-8 were key chapters to truly "getting" the gospel that sets us free indeed, but I had totally missed one key verse, and boy, had I missed it.



I will let you digest this and will write more in a bit.



blessings,

Gideon

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Josheb said:

When I author an op you are welcome to do so.

If and when that occasion arises I hope you will do so without fallacy because I didn't "nitpick" anyone's words. If what I posted is correct it is correct only because what is posted in the op is incorrect and ALL of us should be able to walk in that truth together.

John 3:19-21 NIV
"This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."​

Presumably, neither Gideon, you, nor me wants to stay in darkness. Although we may fear coming out into the light for fear of exposure the turth of God is that when we do step out in His light we can see what He is doing in our lives.

And you trying to change the discussion away from Gideons to Josheb would not be that.

Or maybe now it is thought I am nitpicking your words.





If what I said is correct then it warrants discussion. Too often we hear/read testimonies that evidence wrongdoing, not righteousness. Many years ago I read a book of testimonies. Impressed I went to hear the man speak. He told of an occasion when God rescued he and a bunch of young Scouts he'd taken into a "wilderness experience trial" in the winter where they suffered extreme weather and could have dies were it not for a Ranger who happened upon them and extracted them. In his testimony, both in the book and when he recounted it that night I was in attendance, he reported he'd taken one other man as chaperone. He reported neither the other man nor any of the boys had any experience in extreme weather conditions.

As an outdoorsman who has endured extreme conditions, as an outdoorsman who has and knows the difference between expedition-grade equipment and the average Boy Scout's experience and equipment I know it is foolishness to take a gropu of novices out inot extreme weather and call "manhood building." Wise men prepare in advance and they do not put the lives of others at risk foolishly.

I had the opportunity to meet with the author subsequently. He and I have since then spent much time together discussing mens issues because he's spent 35 years mentoring men. When I asked him about this camping trip, when I asked him why he hadn't told the true work of God was in saving a fool from his foolishness...


...he wept.

He acknowledge that he had been negligent. He acknowledge that he had been negligent with those young boys and men to hom God had given him stewardship. He acknowledged the true work of God was in saving a fool from his own folly and that deserved inclusion in his testimony in the future.

So, tohper, unless and until there is something specifically "nitpicking" in my op-reply I recommend you attend to the log and not worry about the speck, and you not suggest hijacking the op to discuss others when the op has himself asked us to "digest" this op. If what I posted is correct then the correct response is affirmation, not accusation.

And, of course, if what I said is correct then you've just nitpicked and given me the opportunity to point that out inhopes it won't happen again.



I am pleased Gideon has victory over the dependency to inappropriate contentography but his confession of disobedience (which is what he has reported happened) and final obedience is not something to be wholly commended. He may mean to say, "Hey! Look what God has done in my life!" but the testimony itself shows God has simply scratched the surface. If Gideon is aware of this then he will walk in the light and if not then we can help him do so (at least to the degree he is willing to do so in the internet for all the world to see). But we see right from the beginning he has chosen to emphasize disagreement over agreement. Am I nitpicking to note that for him to see?

Ephesians 4:11-16
"And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love."​

1) Unity of faith.
2) knowledge of Christ in maturity
3) Stature in the fullness of Christ.

Is that not your goal? Do you have reason to suspect it is not Gideon's goal? Not mine? If you can agree this is the goal then go back to your own response and ask, "How does insinuating Josh is nitpicking accomplish the goals of Ephesians 4?

Haters are gonna hate. I trust the three of us can do otherwise.

Ephesians 4:25-32
Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another.... Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."​

Go back. Go back and re-read my op-reply through the lens of Ephesians 4. Then do the same with your own posts. Then let's agree to digest the op through the same measure.

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Gideons300 said:

I am sure I am sharing more than you bargained for, but I could not live with myself if I did not share what God shared with me. It has been thirteen years ago since that amazing night, and in that time, sin's power was broken... crushed... my hard legalistic exterior has softened to the point I can hardly recognize myself, and spiritual fruits.... love, joy, peace, etc., have actually begun to grow in me! Amazing God!

So what was it He shared? What had I missed in my understanding of Romans 6?

Romans 6... Here Paul begins telling us that there are two critical truths we were to KNOW as truth.

1) When Christ died, so DID we.

2) When Christ rose from the dead, so DID we.

Ok....so what? Most of us believe that, right? Where have we missed anything? When I look back on my own personal search for the truth that sets free indeed, where we are brought to a place we are not just forgiven but also no longer commit sins, I have to laugh.

I was like an old miner panning for gold. Everyday, I would go down to the creek to see if I could find a little nugget, and every day, I would have to crawl over the boulders that prevented my access. What do you think my response was when I finally had my eyes opened to the truth that the boulders were actually pure gold?

Ok, ready for the eye opener? Immediately after acknowledging these two truths listed above, Paul then tells us we must DO something! Whoa. And it was something I had read over and over... had memorized..... but never understood until God opened my understanding so I could DO it... the missing piece to our puzzle.

And what was it He told us to do through Paul? He told us that therefore, based upon the sureness of the above truths, to reckon our old man to be dead. Not dying, slowly, over four decades, but dead. DEAD.

Oh, I pray those who read this get it. We are asked to appropriate His death as ours. We are told to appropriate His new life as ours. This reckoning is our depositing these truths into our spiritual bank account. How? By faith!

Do we not see? We have believed the truths with our heads as nice wonderful truths, but there they profit us nothing, not until we, by faith, PUT OFF our old nature, consider it out of the equation, and PUT ON our new natures, believing we really are new inside.

Why do you think we are told we must be born again? Golden boulders. LOL.

Are we instantaneously perfect, brimming with spiritual fruits? Ha, I wish! BUT, when we finally come into agreement with God, that we... the old carnal us.... is dead, and that our life is hid with Christ in God, our sanctification process begins!

We do not get sanctified by slowly dying to our carnality and slowly growing into saints. NO. Here it is in scripture forcyou who are confused. In Revelation, in the last days, the saints will turn into overcomers by combining a) the blood of the Lamb (check) with ....are you ready?..... b) the word of OUR testimony! Glory!

Guys, this is the shield of faith God has given us. These are the robes of righteousness we are told to put on. We may possess shields. But shields not wielded do not to stop the incessant blows of the enemy, as our lives fully display. We may have nice new robes of righteousness, but until we put them on, casting off our fleshly nature as a dirty cloth, we cannot walk pleasing to God no matter how hard we try.

We as His people are about to be awakened to this truth. The tares will mock at the simplicity of this amazing truth. But I am witness to the fact what God shared with me works. Have I arrived? Ha! But I would also be negligent if I did not testify that what God has done these past years since my miraculous visitation is beyond my wildest hopes and dreams.

Putting on our new nature by faith is the beginning. KEEPING it on is imperative. Satan will come and try to pry those words out of our mouths, getting us to accept that we are.... sigh... just sinners saved by grace... but that is not who we are, nor who we have been since the day we were saved. We ARE new creatures, but up til now, satan has blinded us to the truth and unbelief has gripped our hearts.

That time is over. Ready for an adventure that your mind could not even have dreamed up? Abiding IN Christ 24/7? Impossible? Not according to our God. Who we believe in the end will determine everything. Let us cast off our unbelief that has limited the Holy One working in us from the inside out. I promise any and all who read these words, no matter how weak you may be, no matter how addicted you are to your besetting sins, God will roll up His sleeves and prove His strength to you, IN YOU, if you will but finally agree with Him.

The old you is dead. The new you, still wrapped in grave clothes like Lazarus, is ready to be revealed like a butterfly emerging from its cocoon. Believe it and prepare to be amazed.



blessings,



Gideon

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topher694 said:

You are not abiding by Ephesians 4 at all, nor 1 Cor 13, nor dozens of other scriptures.

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Josheb said:

Prove it.

Prove it without hijacking the op.

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Josheb said:

Prove it.

Prove it without hijacking the op.

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Charlie24 said:

I think it's obvious from the op that Gideon did all that he knew to do at the time.

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Charlie24 said:

Why the nitpicking? This reminds me to Job's 3 friends nitpicking what he had done wrong, when in fact, he had done nothing wrong.

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throughfireytrial said:

But what about this passage in light of all your trying?...
Philippians 2:13: for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfil his good purpose.

Question then remains what happened? You had not been in Christ yet while "trying with your own strength"? or what?

One cannot generally win a head on fight with the flesh. Love fulfills the Law. This then is how we overcome. Love God; love our neighbor; study the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to instruct us.

Here's another puzzling passage when considering your post...
Titus 2:11-13:
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say ‘No’ to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope – the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ...

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Josheb said:

Prove it.

Prove it without hijacking the op.

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