Did Yahshua and his Disciples Abstain from Meat?

ewq1938 · Feb 19, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
No one, not even Yeshua, can keep or obey ALL its requirements.

He is the only one to live a sinless life under the old covenant and it's laws, 1 Peter. 2:22; Hebrews 4: 15, so you are most assuredly wrong here.

HARK! · Feb 19, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
Which we know was not because he was trying to obey the Torah but to keep to what the Holy Spirit had directed him to do. He taught that the old law was abolished. You can't use this in an attempt to nullify his teaching on that. Shame on you for using the scriptures against themselves.

The scriptures speak for themselves. If you believe that they go against each other; then it would appear that the supposed contradiction is in your understanding of the scripture.

PASSOVER

“And this day shall be unto youfor a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD {Yahweh} throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)

UNLEAVENED BREAD

“And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:17)

SHAVUOT (Feast of Weeks)

“And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute FOREVER in all your dwellings throughout your generations.” (Leviticus 23:21)

YOM KIPPUR

Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute FOREVER throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

FEAST OF TABERNACLES (Booths / Sukkot)

And ye shall keep it a feast unto YHWH seven days in the year. It shall be a statute FOREVER in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.(Leviticus 23:41)

Numerous New Testament examples show where people were intending to keep the Feasts, were keeping them, and would keep them again the in Kingdom. Those passages include: Luke 2:42; John 5:1; 7:2, 10, 14; 12:20; Matthew 26:2, 17, 29; Acts 18:21; and 1Corinthians 5:8.

Yahshua himself kept the feasts as he calls us to follow his example.

May each of us be like the Apostle Paul when he said clearly and with total resolve, "I must by all means keep this Feast!"

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

ewq1938 · Feb 19, 2020

HARK! said:
King James Version
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Naturally Paul went to Jewish feasts so he could share the gospel with them. He went to synagogues for the same reason. He wanted to gain them who were under the law. Paul taught to not be under the law.

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Al Touthentop · Feb 19, 2020

HARK! said:
The scriptures speak for themselves. If you believe that they go against each other; then it would appear that the supposed contradiction is in your understanding of the scripture.

PASSOVER

“And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD {Yahweh} throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)

Click to expand...

And because they DIDN'T keep it, he promised a new covenant.

For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

Click to expand...

And, the law passed because all occurred. He was the only person who kept the law perfectly and he nailed the law of Moses to the cross, just as Paul wrote.

HARK! · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
Naturally Paul went to Jewish feasts so he could share the gospel with them. He went to synagogues for the same reason. He wanted to gain them who were under the law. Paul taught to not be under the law.

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Acts 24:14 (NKJV) - "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

Acts 25:8 - while he answered for himself, "Neither against the Law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all."

Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of Yahweh, but the doers of the Law will be justified;

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 7:12 - Therefore the Law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.

ewq1938 · Feb 20, 2020

HARK! said:
Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of Yahweh, but the doers of the Law will be justified;

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 7:12 - Therefore the Law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.

This is the law of the new covenant. He spoke differently about the old law:

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law- Galatians 3:13

the law entangles with the yoke of bondage- Galatians 5:1

if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law - Galatians 5:18

the strength of sin is the law- 1 Corinthians 15:56

ye also are become dead to the law - Romans 7:4

the law worketh wrath- Romans 4:15

we are not under the law- Romans 6:15

we are delivered from the law- Romans 7:6

we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter- Romans 7:6

HARK! · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
This is the law of the new covenant. He spoke differently about the old law:

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law- Galatians 3:13

the law entangles with the yoke of bondage- Galatians 5:1

if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law - Galatians 5:18

the strength of sin is the law- 1 Corinthians 15:56

ye also are become dead to the law - Romans 7:4

the law worketh wrath- Romans 4:15

we are not under the law- Romans 6:15

we are delivered from the law- Romans 7:6

we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter- Romans 7:6

As it is written in scripture; some people have a difficult time understanding Paul.

Thankfully, Yahshua makes it crystal clear:

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from THE LAW till all should be occurring.

ewq1938 · Feb 20, 2020

HARK! said:
As it is written in scripture; some people have a difficult time understanding Paul.

I agree.

Thankfully, Yahshua makes it crystal clear:

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from THE LAW till all should be occurring.

Yep, fulfilled at the cross and then the law changed:

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 20, 2020

Al Touthentop said:
The scripture is twisted you say. The Torah was not kept after Christ. There are commands under Christ's law which were also in the old law. But we do not obey the Torah, we obey 'the perfect law of liberty.'

The fact that murder is outlawed under Christ's law (in fact his command 'binds' murder to hatred) does not mean we are keeping the Torah when we obey that command. The old law was nailed to the cross just as Paul wrote. Your response is to call Paul twisted. I didn't write the New Testament. You can't obey the Torah. For one, it has more than one covenant and they have all been fulfilled in Christ.

If you were to obey the Torah you'd have to decide which part. The law of Moses made a division of clean and unclean animals which was not in effect after the flood. So which do you chose to obey?

But there are no Levitical priests nor is there any longer an earthly tabernacle or altar to offer sacrifices on. It is impossible to go back to the law of Moses, even if you wanted to.

It is twisted by YOU. I seem to remember that Paul himself went to the Temple (this is "after Christ" as you say) and in fact took a nazirite vow! So again you are wrong. You said: "But we do not obey the Torah, we obey the perfect law of liberty". So you are saying that Yeshua did not teach Torah? So He and His Father are not one, their house is divided and can not stand. Which parts can we keep? The parts that apply to you. It has always been that way. Sin is the transgression of the Law. We do not need sacrifices now...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
He is the only one to live a sinless life under the old covenant and it's laws, 1 Peter. 2:22; Hebrews 4: 15, so you are most assuredly wrong here.

I never said He was not sinless...read exactly what I said.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
.

Naturally Paul went to Jewish feasts so he could share the gospel with them. He went to synagogues for the same reason. He wanted to gain them who were under the law. Paul taught to not be under the law.

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

So you are saying that Paul was misleading people to further his agenda. He says himself that he was a Jew from the tribe of BenYamin. We are not under it because we KEEP it!

Al Touthentop · Feb 20, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
It is twisted by YOU. I seem to remember that Paul himself went to the Temple (this is "after rist as yosay) and in fact took a nazirite vow! So again you are wrong. You said: "But we do not obey the Torah, we obey the perfect law of liberty. So you are saying that Yeshua did not teach Torah? So He and His Father are not one, their house is divided and can not stand. Which parts? The parts that apply to you. It has always been that way. Sin is the transgression of the Law.

Paul took part so that he could preach the gospel.

Jesus nailed the law of Moses to the cross exactly as Paul said. What we are supposed to obey is Christ's law, the law Jesus explained to Peter and his apostles they would be 'binding and loosing' as would already have been bound or loosened in heaven. If we were still under the law of Moses, Gentiles would not be allowed as members of the new Israel. It would be forbidden by law. Gentiles are unclean under the law unless they lived among the Jewish people and followed the law of Moses. All other Gentiles were not even to be associated with. You think that is still in force?

And why do you not advocate that we continue to sacrifice animals as is demanded by this same law?

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose [g]praise is not from men but from God.

The new Jew is one who has been circumcised with the circumcision not made with hands.

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

20 [m]Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and [n]neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

You continue to argue with Paul and the Holy Spirit. Enjoy yourself.

ewq1938 · Feb 20, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
I never said He was not sinless...read exactly what I said.

I can quote what you said, "No one, not even Yeshua, can keep or obey ALL its requirements."

This is decidedly incorrect. A flawed person cannot keep or obey ALL the law's requirements, but Yeshua is God and could easily keep and obey ALL the law's requirements.

ewq1938 · Feb 20, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
So you are saying that Paul was misleading people to further his agenda. He says himself that he was a Jew from the tribe of BenYamin. We are not under it because we KEEP it!

No, we are not under the law because we do not keep that old law. Keeping the law of Moses is not what Paul taught.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
This is the law of the new covenant. He spoke differently about the old law:

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law- Galatians 3:13

the law entangles with the yoke of bondage- Galatians 5:1

if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law - Galatians 5:18

the strength of sin is the law- 1 Corinthians 15:56

ye also are become dead to the law - Romans 7:4

the law worketh wrath- Romans 4:15

we are not under the law- Romans 6:15

we are delivered from the law- Romans 7:6

we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter- Romans 7:6

Yeshua redeemed us from the curse of the law. We are no longer under the curse of the Law when we sin. Sin is the transgression of the law. We no longer need sacrifices to cover them.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
No, we are not under the law because we do not keep that old law. Keeping the law of Moses is not what Paul taught.

What DO you keep?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
Yep, fulfilled at the cross and then the law changed:

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Sin is the transgression of the law. We no longer need sacrifices to cover our sin. Yeshua is now our Kohen Gadol (High Priest).

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 20, 2020

ewq1938 said:
I can quote what you said, "No one, not even Yeshua, can keep or obey ALL its requirements."

This is decidedly incorrect. A flawed person cannot keep or obey ALL the law's requirements, but Yeshua is God and could easily keep and obey ALL the law's requirements.

NO ONE can keep ALL...ALL...ALL of the law's requirements...not even Yeshua. This is fact. You say I am incorrect because you do not understand Torah.

ewq1938 · Feb 20, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
NO ONE can keep ALL...ALL...ALL of the law's requirements...not even Yeshua. This is fact.

I disagree and so does scripture. Yeshua was perfect as far as the law is concerned. Why do you claim he wasn't able to keep all of the law's requirements?

Al Touthentop · Feb 20, 2020

HARK! said:
Acts 24:14 (NKJV) - "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

Acts 25:8 - while he answered for himself, "Neither against the Law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all."

While the law was in effect, Paul obeyed it. This does not say that he believed himself to be under that law currently.

Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law 13 (for not the hearers of the Law [are] just in the sight of Yahweh, but the doers of the Law will be justified;

And yet he goes on to say that this now-defunct law can justify no one because there is a new covenant for them to obey.

[/quote]
Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.[/QUOTE]

What translation are you using? Neither 'Eolohim' nor 'Yahweh' can be found in the New Testament.

Did Yahshua and his Disciples Abstain from Meat?

I love you three.

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I love you three.

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שמע

I love you three.

שמע

I love you three.

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Well-Known Member

I love you three.

I love you three.

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

I love you three.

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