Is This Spiritual Abandonment?

dqhall

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2015
7,547
4,171
Florida
Visit site
✟766,603.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I have a serious issue I would like some advice on. I truly to not want to be a Christian anymore. Maybe I have never been a Christian. But anyway, would it be considered spiritual abandonment if I chose to no longer participate in worship with my wife and children. I lead them in family prayer often, I take them to service with me, and I even go alone at times. I truly do try to raise my children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

The problem is, I believe less and less, and honestly, the only reason I still participate is because I’m afraid that God will kill me if I decide to no longer worship Jesus. I see so much wrong with the religion and so called relationship building with jesus, it just does not work for me and never have, so I want to walk away. However, I still want my children to have that chance.

So here is the question – How do I be true to myself and at the same time leave an open door for my children to worship God freely? Because if and when they ask, I will be forced to tell the truth….Christianity did not work for me, some people just can’t be saved. Would you consider this spiritual abandonment?
Bill Gates memorized Christ's Sermon on the Mount as a child. He became a software engineer and founded Microsoft. He is one of the wealthiest men in the world.

Some people who studied the Gospels learned useful job skills. Learning Christianity is not as easy as showing up for church services without learning God's word. Imperfections in the Bible have caused much grief, yet some endured to find goodness therein.
 
Upvote 0

coffee4u

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2018
5,005
2,817
Australia
✟157,841.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Doesn’t faith literally mean you don’t know for sure? If a person is 100% certain of something why would they need faith? Or maybe you can help me understand the difference between faith and certainty or is there not a difference in your opinion?

It's your faith that gives you certainty. I also mentioned depression and times of struggle, the spiritual desert if you will because some people think it will be peace and joy with every step. A Christan can expect the world and Satan to give them grief. The health, wealth and prosperity doctrine made people think Christianity was happy hour and what can they get out of it. When it's more about what can I give to God and my community. Very few people will go their entire life with their faith at 100% there will be times of drought and struggle, times of doubt in one or more areas. Like the house built on the rock versus the sand, the rain of life may wash away faith built on sand, but you can come back from times of struggle to even greater faith.

John 16:33

33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

1 Peter 5:9
Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I have a serious issue I would like some advice on. I truly to not want to be a Christian anymore. Maybe I have never been a Christian. But anyway, would it be considered spiritual abandonment if I chose to no longer participate in worship with my wife and children. I lead them in family prayer often, I take them to service with me, and I even go alone at times. I truly do try to raise my children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

The problem is, I believe less and less, and honestly, the only reason I still participate is because I’m afraid that God will kill me if I decide to no longer worship Jesus. I see so much wrong with the religion and so called relationship building with jesus, it just does not work for me and never have, so I want to walk away. However, I still want my children to have that chance.

So here is the question – How do I be true to myself and at the same time leave an open door for my children to worship God freely? Because if and when they ask, I will be forced to tell the truth….Christianity did not work for me, some people just can’t be saved. Would you consider this spiritual abandonment?
Jesus says whoever falls on this stone will be broken. But whoever it falls on will be ground to powder. If you are truly his and fall away, it's certainly not pleasant trying to make it back to the only life worth living.
 
Upvote 0

Zhen

Active Member
Feb 21, 2019
170
204
Singapore
✟31,863.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Where is your faith placed? In the Bible, or in your church? Which is failing you - the Bible or your church? Your church may claim to represent the Jesus of the Bible, but, really, in the light of what you are saying, does it??

If you decide to turn away from your church, does that mean that you are turning away from the Jesus of the Bible? Is the church Jesus?

What is wrong with this rendering of the Scripture?
"By the church you are saved, though commitment to it, and through their example to you, it is the gift of the church pastor, and it all has to do with having to attend church services regularly."

Or does it read:
"By grace you are saved through faith and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not through works lest anyone should boast in them."

If your faith is in your church and its pastor, then you have churchianity and God would never reject or punish you for rejecting it in favour of putting your faith in Christ alone.

I left the Charismatic movement in 1978 because I became very disillusioned with it. But I did not walk away from Christ. What He did was to lead me to another church fellowship that represented Him better.

The sad thing about many is that when they become disillusioned with their church, they think there is something wrong with them and that their Christian faith isn't working any more. The reality is that it is the church that is failing them and is not giving them the true spiritual nourishment that they need. It often happens with members of churches that give the impression that the church is at the cutting edge of what God is doing, and that all other churches are a big step backward, and to leave that church would be rejecting God's perfect will for them.

My experience after leaving the Charismatic church I was involved with, was that I met wonderful and loving Anglican. Baptist, and Presbyterian folk who loved Jesus and had as much faith in Him as anyone in the church I left.

When I recently moved cities, I found a small Union church (Methodist/Presbyterian) with around 20 mainly elderly people in it. They made me feel very welcome, and indicated that my skills and contribution would be very welcome. I realised that going to church is not about what I can get out of it, but what I can contribute to it. So if you are feeling unfulfilled where you are, leave it and find a small struggling Christian church down the road that will welcome you with open arms and will value your fellowship and contribution to the life of their church.

Much better than sitting on the back row of a large church with nothing to do and feeling depressed that you are not wanted or needed there.


may i know what it means to put my faith in Christ alone?
 
Upvote 0
Oct 8, 2012
5
1
✟15,249.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I have a serious issue I would like some advice on. I truly to not want to be a Christian anymore. Maybe I have never been a Christian. But anyway, would it be considered spiritual abandonment if I chose to no longer participate in worship with my wife and children. I lead them in family prayer often, I take them to service with me, and I even go alone at times. I truly do try to raise my children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

The problem is, I believe less and less, and honestly, the only reason I still participate is because I’m afraid that God will kill me if I decide to no longer worship Jesus. I see so much wrong with the religion and so called relationship building with jesus, it just does not work for me and never have, so I want to walk away. However, I still want my children to have that chance.

So here is the question – How do I be true to myself and at the same time leave an open door for my children to worship God freely? Because if and when they ask, I will be forced to tell the truth….Christianity did not work for me, some people just can’t be saved. Would you consider this spiritual abandonment?

Hi Xavier,

I Myself wrestled with these questions myself.
And You do not have to be a Christian to be Righteous.
I myself am a Christian, and I believe in a Mercyful Creator, who loves His creation and is his Creation.
But You do not need preaching.
What I did was read... read to understand the world and The Mind of God.

I have allready put a link on this forum where I put my Findings online.
I believe You are not a dumb guy, and You will need Advanced Christ Class.
www.SatanSucks.EU is especially for righteous people from all religions and for people with no religion at all.
It explains the materials of Christ on Righteousness by a revolutionary new way, and its taught at Yale University in the USA.

You are full of questions, and You will not understand it, but I will send You to study this.
I hope After a month or 5 of free studying You will experience Clarity on these issues.

Love, Keeper of the Flame...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xavier Cane
Upvote 0

royal priest

debtor to grace
Nov 1, 2015
2,666
2,655
Northeast, USA
✟188,924.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
I have a serious issue I would like some advice on. I truly to not want to be a Christian anymore. Maybe I have never been a Christian. But anyway, would it be considered spiritual abandonment if I chose to no longer participate in worship with my wife and children. I lead them in family prayer often, I take them to service with me, and I even go alone at times. I truly do try to raise my children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

The problem is, I believe less and less, and honestly, the only reason I still participate is because I’m afraid that God will kill me if I decide to no longer worship Jesus. I see so much wrong with the religion and so called relationship building with jesus, it just does not work for me and never have, so I want to walk away. However, I still want my children to have that chance.

So here is the question – How do I be true to myself and at the same time leave an open door for my children to worship God freely? Because if and when they ask, I will be forced to tell the truth….Christianity did not work for me, some people just can’t be saved. Would you consider this spiritual abandonment?
Think about what you're considering.
Abandoning Heaven for Hell.
Leaving the Savior of sinners for the father of murder and lies.
Please don't give up. The fight is hard, but the reward is so worth it!
It's not about you and how you feel. It's about doing what's right. Keep your eyes on Jesus and He will lead you home.
Not to mention, you are going to give an account to God for your spiritual leadership over your family.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xavier Cane
Upvote 0

Josheb

Christian
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
2,197
837
NoVa
✟166,989.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So I have a question. But to start an issue. I ask questions because I still have so much to learn... So here goes... what about all the people aren’t Christians, who believe something other than Christianity who says their belief system works for them? They will say to a Christian, “you don’t know for a fact either” or they will say, “you believe a lot of stuff you don’t actually know for sure either”.... What do you say to that? Because the sincere truth is nobody knows hardly anything for sure. We have our beliefs. We trust a lot of people and most would argue they have good reason to trust but by the simple fact that we need trust, faith, or belief is simply because we honestly and sincerely do not know for certain. Fur what reason do we need trust, faith or belief if we are certain? So in this sense what give the Christian the right to say another doesn’t know when that also applies to them as well. Any help understanding this from anybody is appreciated. I keep coming back reading but I’m getting even more confused lol. Thanks a lot
First, I encourage you to take this post and re-post it in the apologetics board because many in CF will be able to provide a diverse defense of the faith pertaining to these inquiries.

Second, I encourage you to pick up a copy of Francis Schaeffer's trilogy. That book will helpe you develop a Christian worldview applicable to all arenas of life and provide an explanation for how we got to the post-modern thinking that begets the kind of relativism underlying your otherwise very real and valid inquiries.




As to the rest of your post I'll offer a summary set of responses because the individual questions could generate lengthy individual discussions, most of which are off-topic from this op.

Faith/belief is not an all-or-nothing condition. There are folks with a little faith and folks with a lot of faith. I happen to be among the latter but I have had my season of doubt as have most Christians. Many a noted theologian have written of their struggle. The kind of faith Christianity asserts is not a "blind faith;" it is a faith based on logic and observation and the presuppositional belief God and creation are knowable because God has made it that way.

Logic cannot get us all the way to intellectual assent of God, or more importantly the faith entailed in knowing and being known by God, but it can definitively negate certain theological or religious paradigms. For example, any conceptualization of a god existing solely within the universe can be negated in comparison to externally existing Gods because the internal-only god is bound or limited by the limits or structures of the universe. That God cannot escape time or space, etc. That's a finite god, not an Infinite God. Similarly, any theology asserting multiple gods can be dismissed because in such cases no god is all mighty. Why believe in such a god when there is an alternative God? Imperfect, but useful, and most importantly: rational.

By definition, God's existence cannot be proven. If the finite could prove the Infinite we'd be the Infinite. The only reason a finite creature even knows of an Infinite Creator's existence is because that Creator has made Him/Her/Itself known. Our condition is akin to the amoeba's awareness of the elephant, or the amoeba's awareness of Alpha Centauri. This is why any valid religion must be based on faith. This is why "certainty" is not certain. As you read through Exodus and consider how often God manifested His existence in very undeniable ways among the wandering Hebrews you can't help but ask, "What's wrong with those folks? How can they not believe after waking each day to see a pillar of smoke moving before them and bread and quail popping up for sustenance to fade away when all were full? Not to mention the parting of the sea, the opening of the earth, and all the other many miracles.

Miracles are not sufficient.

Sin makes sure of that.

Besides, the reliance on miracles leads to idolatry, the antithesis of faith in God. So folks relying on something more tangible have a fundamental foundational flaw in their understanding of the relationship between creature and Creator in a broken world.


As I sad, any of this could take up many posts. I encourage you to pick up some books on the apologetics of Christianity. Not books on how to do apologetics; books asserting the reason(s) to believe. After reading the aforementioned Schaeffer trilogy, I recommend starting with "The Reason for God," by Timothy Keller and following that up with "Beyond Opinion," edited by Ravi Zacharias. Schaeffer's a demanding read but the other two are quite accessible.


There's one more idea I'll run by you in answer to your inquiries but it'll have to wait because it'll take some time to write and post and I have to leave for work now.
 
Upvote 0

Alynn

Active Member
Jan 22, 2020
77
34
30
Fort Wayne
✟40,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hey Xavier,

I know you're probably tired of giving answers, but would you please elaborate on what you meant by this? Walking away from the only One who can save you from the eternal penalty of your sins is serious business - so I want to understand why, in case there's something you're missing that we can help you with. :)


My heart stop when I read your post! I am/was in the same situation that you are in but it wasn't that I didn't have faith. I was close to apostasy.


I don't know how you came to know about Jesus Christ but I WILL tell you that walking away from him will be the biggest mistake. I say this all-in love only because I had to go through 2 weeks of believing that I was dammed. Hebrews 10:29 - "How much worse punishment, do you think will be deserved by the once who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?"


If you know the Truth or any part of the Truth you are walking away from the only one that can save you. Christ died once for all. Neglecting him and leaving him is saying that YOU’RE going to pay for your sins. God’s wrath deserves Justice.



You also mentioned faith. Yes. Faith is a gift from God but it also used to draw us close to him John 6:44 – “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day” THIS IS A BLESSING! God wants a relationship with you!


I only say something because I realized what my sin did. It broke God’s heart and it grieved the Holy Spirit. It was ONLY by His mercy and grace that I came to repentance. He chastises and reproves those he loves.


I hope this helps!
 
Upvote 0

Kris Jordan

Acts 4:12
May 1, 2019
377
539
56
Southern California
Visit site
✟46,741.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It doesn't work. Your talk is all faith. You have no proof that jesus saves. Maybe you do from your experience, but not me. When he saves me and makes a change in my heart that I do not have to work so hard to obtain, maybe then I will believe. But wait...You cant please him without faith now can you? Nope. if jesus could save me, he would have already. plane and simple. God is real for sure...but maybe just maybe all this jesus stuff is made up.

Hi Xavier,

Thanks for responding. I don't understand what you mean by you having to work so hard to obtain a change in your heart that Jesus would make. Can you elaborate on that? :)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Xavier Cane
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Xavier Cane

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2017
415
196
Ohio
✟12,765.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What you are Xavier, is in the throws of selfishness. Sometimes it's called Humanism. Believing all is about the me. It's no wonder you're disillusioned as you have set yourself up to be the center of the universe. How disappointing that is. Success is fleeting in that state of being.

The point of being a believer and having faith is that you put aside yourself. What I have learned in my 76 years is that the more you give, the more you get. If you focus on others, the self begins to slowly fade away. I wasn't saved till I was nearly 40. I was religious since I was 5. I've been struggling with myself ever since. I count that as a blessing.

As Christians we only have 2 commands: Love the Father with heart, mind, soul and all your strength and love your neighbor as yourself. Simple but not easy. Nowhere in those commands is anything about YOU getting anything. It is in other places in scripture that talks about the reward when you set yourself aside and have fellowship with the Father through Christ. You are deluding yourself.
Oh please shut up. You speak from your rear end, and know nothing about me besides what I have said. I do not need to prove anything to your old self. Go back 45 years and tell me the same story. Spare me your experience. I only ask God to set me free from sin...and since that has not happened, it is what it is. People like you make me really sick, and make your jesus look really bad. Good day.
 
Upvote 0

Xavier Cane

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2017
415
196
Ohio
✟12,765.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What you are Xavier, is in the throws of selfishness. Sometimes it's called Humanism. Believing all is about the me. It's no wonder you're disillusioned as you have set yourself up to be the center of the universe. How disappointing that is. Success is fleeting in that state of being.

The point of being a believer and having faith is that you put aside yourself. What I have learned in my 76 years is that the more you give, the more you get. If you focus on others, the self begins to slowly fade away. I wasn't saved till I was nearly 40. I was religious since I was 5. I've been struggling with myself ever since. I count that as a blessing.

As Christians we only have 2 commands: Love the Father with heart, mind, soul and all your strength and love your neighbor as yourself. Simple but not easy. Nowhere in those commands is anything about YOU getting anything. It is in other places in scripture that talks about the reward when you set yourself aside and have fellowship with the Father through Christ. You are deluding yourself.
Salvation is about me....Save yourself from this untoward generation. You have no clue.
 
Upvote 0

Xavier Cane

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2017
415
196
Ohio
✟12,765.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The sad reality for you is that you know about Jesus, but you do not know Him. Anyone who knows Jesus could not just walk away. Christianity is the new birth. When someone gets born again, he becomes alive in Christ and to God. Christianity has never been a religion. It is a relationship with God through Christ. Before you make a truly catastrophic decision, I urge you read the following article.
Are you absolutely sure you are born again? - Christian Life Frankston

You may well find that you were not born again in the first place. At least you will be able to decide on the right basis. God will not kill you. Satan may take the opportunity to whip you and harass you. It's a cold, hard and cruel world without Christ.
Yes...based on that link, no I'm not saved, and never have been. The reason is not because i did not give God my heart mind and soul...the reason I am not saved is because God did not save me. It really is that simple. There was never a change of heart, only the desire to change and seek God for it through much prayer, fasting, bible study, and by sharing my faith. Spending personal time with God through devotion was neither enough to make me free. Maybe some people just cant get saved at all. People like me.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Xavier Cane

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2017
415
196
Ohio
✟12,765.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If a person calls themselves a Christian but can't say anything is for certain either they are depressed, backslidden and struggling, or not a Christian.
It has nothing to do with 'belief systems working for them' God never said he was giving us a belief system that would 'work for us', whatever that means.

Which makes me ask, OP if you are still here


I am wondering what you mean by 'does not work'? What were you expecting to happen?
I was expecting God to change my heart. There has been no change in my my inner man. Same old guy with the same old patterns. Whom the son has made free is free indeed. I am not free and never have been free from sin...netither the guilt, or its power. God wont change that.
 
Upvote 0

Xavier Cane

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2017
415
196
Ohio
✟12,765.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Does not sound like you have anything to abandon. You keep talking about Religion which sounds to be man made. You did not really talk about having any sort of a relationship with God. We are to be filled with the Holy Spirit of God. He is to be our Guide and our Teacher. Not man. Could be you need to have a relationship with God. David tells us in Psalm 139:16 that God writes the book of our life before we are even born. Every chapter and ever verse. We need to become the person He created us to be and we will be judged accordingly. The angels keep track of what we do and how we live our life. Only we need the Holy Spirit to be our Guide and not man and man made religion. God is looking or people who grieve over the condition His creation is in. He is wanting to redeem those who long for ALL of His creation to be redeemed. Those who hunger and thirst to be right with God.
I've had a prayer life since I was a child. Dont talk to me about relationship. I talk to God, and I try to listen for him to talk back. I have taken scripture to heart, that I was saved by his grace....but grace never made an impact in my life, nor did god. Thanks. People are so judgemental. Ugh.
 
Upvote 0

Xavier Cane

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2017
415
196
Ohio
✟12,765.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If your wife left you for no other reason than it's to hard to be married and you don't reward her enough would you say that she abandoned you? I mean really who cares that you did everything but she never reciprocated, that ship has sailed man she's outta here.
So not the same. I'm leaving religion, not her and my kids. I love them dearly, I just dont like all this god stuff anymore.
 
Upvote 0

Xavier Cane

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2017
415
196
Ohio
✟12,765.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You know for a fact it has not worked for you so far. Beyond that you do not know. You certainly don't know for a fact it is junk, nor that it does not work.

For two and a half billion people Christianity does work. That is a fact. If a God actually factually does exist then it will work, though you may not ever realize that on this side of the grave.
Just because they say it works does not make it true. How many of those same "christians" are stuck in their sin. If you just look at your life and be honest with yourself, you know, that you are going through the motions, and if there have been any changes...you made the choice to change them. Period.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Xavier Cane

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2017
415
196
Ohio
✟12,765.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Someone, human, or just the flesh/your own mind, or demons, the devil,

taught you to think like that. That is quite common, btw. It always leads to destruction,

unless one repents.
God is a joke. If I end up in hell. He knew it before he created the whole world. SMH. come one man.
 
Upvote 0