Questions About Hell

Saint Steven said:

I used to believe something similar to that. Not any more.

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Can I ask,....Why?

Saint Steven said:

At least four of these seven have nothing to do with God's laws.

This doesn't confirm your claim. (see below)

smithed64 said: ↑
God hates sin, he doesn't even want to look at it.

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That's called hyperbole.
There are things i find disgusting and don't even want to see them, spiders....uuugh. Not a big fan. Don't even like looking at them. Doesn't mean they don't exist, nor does it lessen my disqust. Just rather not have them to be seen, by me.

But God does hate sin.

God hates sin because it is the very antithesis of His nature. The psalmist describes God’s hatred of sin this way: “For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; no evil dwells with You” (Psalm 5:4). God hates sin because He is holy; holiness is the most exalted of all His attributes (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 6:8). His holiness totally saturates His being. His holiness epitomizes His moral perfection and His absolute freedom from blemish of any kind (Psalm 89:35; 92:15; Romans 9:14).

The Bible presents God’s attitude toward sin with strong feelings of hostility, disgust, and utter dislike. For example, sin is described as putrefying sores (Isaiah 1:6, NKJV), a heavy burden (Psalm 38:4), defiling filth (Titus 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:1), a binding debt (Matthew 6:12-15), darkness (1 John 1:6) and a scarlet stain (Isaiah 1:18).

God hates sin for the simple reason that sin separates us from Him: “But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear” (Isaiah 59:2; see also Isaiah 13:11; Jeremiah 5:25). It was sin that caused Adam and Eve to run away from God and hide “among the trees of the garden” (Genesis 3:8). Sin always brings separation, and the fact that God hates sin means that He hates being separated from us. His love demands restoration, which in turn demands holiness.

God also hates sin because of its subtle deceitfulness which entices us to focus on worldly pleasure to the exclusion of God’s blessings. Those who have their sins forgiven can say, “You will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand” (Psalm 16:11). To pursue sin is to turn one’s back on the gifts of God, who has “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future” (Jeremiah 29:11). God’s hatred of sin implies that He loves His people and wants to bless them.

Another reason God hates sin is that it blinds us to the truth. Jesus likened false teachers to “blind leaders of the blind” (Matthew 15:14, NKJV). John said that the one who hates his brother “does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him” (1 John 2:11). Sin has consequences which the sinner often disregards. “Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows” (Galatians 6:7; see also Numbers 32:23). God hates sin for the same reason that light hates darkness and truth hates a lie. God wants His children to “have the full riches of complete understanding” (Colossians 2:2), and sin only gets in the way.

God hates sin because it enslaves us and will eventually destroy us. Just as Samson’s sin led to his physical blindness and captivity (Judges 16:21), our sin will lead to spiritual blindness and bondage. “Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey – whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness” (Romans 6:16). God is the source of life, and He will extend that life eternally to all who believe. Sin is a barrier to our reception of life, and that is one reason why God hates it.

God hates sin because it lessens our love for Him. The Bible says, “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world” (1 John 2:15-16). James warns us of the danger of embracing the world: “You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God” (James 4:4). No one can serve two masters (Luke 16:13), and we must choose between sin and righteousness.

As believers, we should hate sin as does God. We are “sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness” (1 Thessalonians 5:5). We must recognize that God has set us apart; we are “a holy nation, a people belonging to God” (1 Peter 2:9). We cannot become holy on our own, but God gives us His Holy Spirit to sanctify us (2 Thessalonians 2:13). We have His promise that He will help us in our struggle against sin (1 Corinthians 1:8).

We hate sin because it separates us from God. We hate it because it lessens our love and dulls our conscience, because it binds us and blinds us. We hate it because it grieves the Spirit of God (Ephesians 4:30). Our prayer to the Holy One is “May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

Saint Steven said:

Never has faith been so blind.
There is no way hell can equate to goodness. Not as you define it anyway.
Just to be clear, I am assuming you define hell as eternal conscious torment in the Lake of Fire with no hope of escape. Please correct me if I misunderstand you. Or explain what is good about it.

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Again, it's not important how I define it.
What's important is How does Christ define it?

The doctrine of hell has fallen out of favor among many. But it’s there for a reason. God tells us about hell to demonstrate to us the magnitude of his holiness. Hell is what hell is because the holiness of God is what it is. Hell is not one degree hotter than our sin demands that it be. Hell should make our mouths stand agape at the righteous and just holiness of God. It should make us tremble before his majesty and grandeur.

Ironically, in doing away with hell, you do away with the very resources that show God’s justice. When a person goes through rape or child abuse, she needs to know that there is a God of such holiness and beauty that his reign can tolerate no evil.

As I said before, Christ spoke more on Hell than anyone.

The problem with this view is that when you start reading the Gospels, you find that Jesus speaks about hell more than anyone else. In fact, if you count up the verses, Jesus spoke more about hell than he did about heaven. One of the most famous skeptics in history, Bertrand Russell, said in his book Why I’m Not a Christian that Jesus’s teaching on hell is “the one profound defect in Christ’s character.” If we want to avoid the idea of hell, we can’t ignore the problem by just focusing on “meek and mild Jesus.”

Why did Jesus speak about hell more than anyone else in the Bible? Because he wanted us to see what he was going to endure on the cross on our behalf. On the cross, Jesus’s punishment was scarcely describable: this bloodied, disfigured remnant of a man was given a cross that was perhaps recycled, likely covered in the blood, feces, and urine of other men who had used it previously. Hanging there in immense pain, he slowly suffocated to death.

The worst part was the separation from the Father that Jesus felt, a separation that was hell itself. “My God, my God,” he cried out, “Why have you forsaken me?” (Matt 27:46). In all of this, Jesus was taking the hell of our sin into his body.

People often feel that hell is some great blemish on God’s love. The Bible presents it as the opposite. Hell magnifies for us the love of God by showing us how far God went, and how much he went through, to save us.

So, it doesn't really matter whether it's eternal conscious torment or even eternal lake of fire.
What matters is that it exist.

Hell is the culmination of telling God to “get out.” You keep telling God to leave you alone, and finally God says, “Okay.” That’s why the Bible describes it as darkness: God is light; his absence is darkness. On earth we experience light and things like love, friendship, and the beauty of creation. These are all remnants of the light of God’s presence. But when you tell God you don’t want him as the Lord and center of your life, eventually you get your wish, and with God go all of his gifts.

We have two options: live with God, or live without God. If you say, “I don’t want God’s authority. I would rather live for myself,” that’s hell. In The Great Divorce and The Problem of Pain, Lewis put it this way:

In the long run the answer to all those who object to the doctrine of hell is itself a question: “What are you asking God to do?” . . . To leave them alone? Alas, I am afraid that is what he does. . . . In the end, there are only two kinds of people—those who say to God “thy will be done” and those to whom God says in the end “thy will be done.”

Saint Steven said:

That's funny, but as you probably know, prophecy after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit has taken on a different role. See scripture below.

This may be more for the topic readers than you. But these days The Holy Spirit is giving believers what amounts to "puzzle pieces" to share with others. The person receiving the "puzzle piece" needs to determine whether and where it fits. These are usually shared as a possible word from God. In need of confirmation by the person receiving it. The "prophet" typically does not have the whole picture, only a puzzle piece to offer.

1 Corinthians 14:3
But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.

1 Corinthians 14:24-25
But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

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I know.
Just picking on ya.
But the prophesying that Paul speaks about Here isn't the futuristic type...i.e. future events.
As you have shown there in 1 Corinthians 14:3
Strengthening of the Children of God
Encouraging them to continue in the Faith
To Give Comfort to those who need it.

Saint Steven said:

Never has faith been so blind.
There is no way hell can equate to goodness. Not as you define it anyway.
Just to be clear, I am assuming you define hell as eternal conscious torment in the Lake of Fire with no hope of escape. Please correct me if I misunderstand you. Or explain what is good about it.

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Believing that God's Goodness is indisputable, is blind faith?
How's that?

smithed64 said:

Can I ask,....Why?

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I can no longer in good conscience accuse my loving heavenly Father of such atrocities.
It does not fit his character.

smithed64 said:

Believing that God's Goodness is indisputable, is blind faith?
How's that?

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If your neighbor was torturing people in his basement, would you defend his good character?

FineLinen said:

Is God a Failure?

Now that’s a pretty poignant question. Or is it an insinuation? An inference? Or implication? Or is it truth, as many would have you believe? Have you ever heard a sermon by that title? I doubt if you have. But I’m certain you have heard many a sermon which has been riddled with such implications.

Allow me to rephrase the question: Have you ever heard a sermon stating that if you don’t accept Jesus, you’ll burn forever in hell? Ah, I knew I’d touch a raw nerve. You have, haven’t you? If you heard that God is going to lose so much as one individual to the devil forever, then God is a failure.

If you have heard that the heathen (who have never had an opportunity to hear of Jesus) will be tormented forever for not believing in Him, then you’ve heard that God is a failure. If you’ve heard that man’s puny will can withstand the omnipotent will of God, and that man’s will can paralyze God’s will, then you have heard that God is a failure.

If you’ve heard that the Adversary outsmarted God in the garden of Eden, if you’ve heard that God did not want Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then you’ve heard that God is a failure.

If you’ve ever heard anyone affirm that God will lose 95% of His created beings that He’s placed on planet earth, and will torment them forever, then you’ve clearly heard that God is a failure.

If the Good Shepherd is not willing that any should perish, and yet gets weary and gives up before He finds the last sheep that’s lost, then you know that God is a failure.

If no one can come to Jesus except the Father draws him, and if the Father - eventually - does not draw every single person, then God is a failure.

What is the response of your heart to the poised question: Is God a failure? Ah, my heart says, “Nay, a billion nays.” My heart has fallen in love with a God who does all things perfectly, and one day all will be made plain, and in the end He will become ‘All in All’ and for that day my heart does wait and meanwhile I rejoice and endure because I see Him, the invisible One.

By faith I see a Master Plan for the ages and beyond, and I know I am part of that plan, and for this I whisper, “Thank you, Jesus.” I sing a song to my Beloved, Hallelujah!

In Love with Him

- Eleanor Garrod-

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This is where it is vitally important that you fully understand who the "True Trinity is" and "all that happened", and both "has happened" (past tense), with Them"...

For without that understanding, you will never understand, etc...

But the "eternal torment", and "burning in a fire for eternity", is very much what I am describing and talking about in this thread...

And whether it will be few or many, etc, is something that I always pray about and talk to and with God a lot about (now) (or right now), etc...

(Sorry just realized those last two sentences are not the thread I was thinking about or thought it was in this thread...? see thread linked below if you are interested, etc)...

Heaven or Hell...?

God Bless!

FineLinen said:

Many "made sinners" = "many made righteous."

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Romans 5:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

FineLinen said:

Dear Neo: You must surely be aware that both of your quotes may be what you are talking about but simply not in Scripture!

There is NO Aidios torment & the Fire for all eternity is the Aidios God who is consuming fire/pur in whom His created ones dwell. Yes, the Fire for "all eternity" is the One who IS the Lake of Fire & Deity radiating in theion & theioo.

Many "made sinners" = "many made righteous."

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Did you check my other thread...?

Cause I already stated that I accidentally replied here thinking it was a reply in that other thread already...?

Anyway, as to this response though, you obviously do not seem to know very much scripture from the book of Revelation I don't think, and Jesus Himself talked about it as well, as well as it's being mentioned a few other places in scripture as well...?

It's very clear that the Bible talks about some humans (and not just fallen angels only) but some humans here, from this life here, being selected and made to suffer in an eternal fire and/or torment that is like a fire, or lake of fire, etc, that is to last forever and is never to be put out ever, etc, and that feels like being eternally burned in a tormenting fire but never burns them up, and lasts forvever, etc...

I think you need to check scripture again, or else google it at least, etc...?

And take a look at my other thread if you have not already please, K...?

Much Thanks,

God Bless!

FineLinen said:

The final analysis of Satan is he can only operate as far as is allowed by the Lord of the universe!

He is NOT even lord of heck.

“Any true definition of Christian Universalism MUST INCLUDE THE BELIEF that God is all Sovereign, loving, powerful, wise, just, and ultimately rules over everything. It MUST ALSO INCLUDE the belief that salvation is only by faith in God and was finalized by Jesus Christ “who gave Himself a ransom for all” (1 Tim 2:6). The definition of Christian Universalism DOES INCLUDE THE BELIEF that God “will have all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:4).”

No more let sin and sorrow grow, nor thorns infest the ground, He comes to make His blessings flow FAR AS THE CURSE IS FOUND.

"Curse = katathema = an accursed thing

"Curse = anathematizo = devoted to destruction

" No more" = meketi = no further

“Sin” = hamartia = Missing the mark

Death = thanatos = separation from God

Vanity = mataiotes = empty

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It also must include and tell the truth about "Hell" that is also in and is found in and is from scripture as well, etc...

Again, take a look at the thread I linked in my first mistaken response/post to you a few posts back, OK...?

God Bless!

FineLinen said:

He is NOT even lord of heck.

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That is SO funny!!!!!!!!!!! - lol

FineLinen said:

Dear Neo: I know very little regarding anything. Our Father is so far outside my grasp of the outer laminar spheres I fail for words!

The Aidios Fire is our God in whom His creation shall dwell, the good, the bad & the ugly!

Many made sinners = many made righteous.

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Love You Brother!

God Bless!