What would happen to the creation/evolution debate...

And that {Bart Ehrman) believes that Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

EssentialSaltes:That is not correct.

Click to expand...

Thanks for heads up Essential. I did not word that right. I was going on memory from two debates he had with Christian apologists to which I had read/listened. Here is what Dr. Ehrman actually said in his debate with William Lane Craig on the resurrection of Jesus.

"What about the resurrection of Jesus? I’m not saying it didn’t happen; but if it did happen, it would be a miracle. The resurrection claims are claims that not only that Jesus’ body came back alive; it came back alive never to die again. That’s a violation of what naturally happens, every day, time after time, millions of times a year. What are the chances of that happening? Well, it’d be a miracle. In other words, it’d be so highly improbable that we can’t account for it by natural means. A theologian may claim that it’s true, and to argue with the theologian we’d have to argue on theological grounds because there are no historical grounds to argue on. Historians can only establish what probably happened in the past, and by definition a miracle is the least probable occurrence. And so, by the very nature of the canons of historical research, we can’t claim historically that a miracle probably happened. By definition, it probably didn’t. And history can only establish what probably did."

Yes, well, studying biology can't teach you the truth that God is up there, after you meet him, you believe that he created the world too.

NBB said:

Yes, well, studying biology can't teach you the truth that God is up there, after you meet him, you believe that he created the world too.

Click to expand...

The study of biology doesn't teach anything at all about the existence of God, one way or the other.

Speedwell said:

Yes, in fact it is. Evolutionary biology, molecular genetics, that math that backs it up, are all pretty much on a par with "rocket science" in terms of level of difficulty. The basic principles, however, are within the grasp of any intelligent layman who wants to study at the undergraduate level in biology, zoology, genetics and math.

Click to expand...

Are you capable of understanding it?

If so, feel free to bring it down to our level and explain away.

Kenny'sID said:

Are you capable of understanding it?

If so, feel free to bring it down to our level and explain away.

Click to expand...

Here you go Kenny.
The basics of evolution. Each module is extremely brief and written in plain, non-technical, English with explanatory diagrams.

Courtesy of the University of California Berkeley.

Evolution 101 Table of Contents

1. An introduction to evolution
Evolution briefly defined and explained

2. The history of life: looking at the patterns
How does evolution lead to the tree of life?

• The family tree
  
• Understanding phylogenies
  
• Building the tree
  
• Homologies and analogies
  
• Using the tree for classification
  
• Adding time to the tree
  
• How we know what happened when
  
• Important events in the history of life

3. Mechanisms: the processes of evolution
How does evolution work?

• Descent with modification
  
• Mechanisms of change
  
• Genetic variation
  
• Mutations
  
• The causes of mutations
  
• Gene flow
  
• Sex and genetic shuffling
  
• Development
  
• Genetic drift
  
• Natural selection
  
• What about fitness?
  
• Sexual selection
  
• Artificial selection
  
• Adaptation
  
• Misconceptions about natural selection
• Coevolution

4. Microevolution
How does evolution work on a small scale?

• Defining microevolution
  
• Detecting microevolutionary change
  
• Mechanisms of microevolution

5. Speciation
What are species anyway, and how do new ones evolve?

• Defining a species
  
• Defining speciation
  
• Causes of speciation
  
• Reproductive isolation
  
• Evidence for speciation
  
• Cospeciation
  

6. Macroevolution
How does evolution work on a grand scale?

• What is macroevolution?
  
• Patterns in macroevolution

7. The big issues
What are some of the big questions that evolutionary biologists are trying to answer?

• The pace of evolution
  
• Diversity in clades
  
• Looking at complexity
  
• Trends in evolution

pitabread said:

... if everyone was required to pass an introductory Biology (university-level Biology 101) course first?

My prediction: the debate mostly disappear for two reasons.

1) I suspect a lot of creationists wouldn't have the inclination to pass such a course. Most creationists in my experience little genuine interest in science.

2) Those who did pass would likely have a lot of misconceptions about basic biology and evolution cleared up in the first place. Given there is a correlation between understanding of evolution and acceptance, I suspect increased understanding would lead to a decrease in the numbers of creationists.

Click to expand...

I would certainly hope for 3 at the least which would be, they actually use arguments based on what science says and not what they are told to say, or the , "Were you dere." and, "thats historical science not observation." and other nonsense they use to try to make the difference between what they call science and what scientists call science.

Mathetes66 said:

You seem woefully ignorant of the advanced teaching degrees of the millions of Christians around the world who believe in creation, instead of evolution & the numbers are growing.

I took up upper levels of biology classes with a Bachelors in Wildlife Biology/Education & taught school in biology for awhile before moving onto counseling before I retired.

My convictions concerning "God the Father, Creator of the heavens & the earth', as the Creed goes, is stronger than ever.

But thanks for sharing your speculations.

Click to expand...

funny how all these creationists use arguments that show they have no clue what evolution is about, just have to read most of the creationist posts here that argue for things that have nothing to do with evolution.

Bungle_Bear said:

That is more of a problem in USA than elsewhere. Odd that USA claims to be more Christian than other countries. Please explain.

Click to expand...

Real Christians?
Hmmm.
What is your definition of a Christian?
Maybe better not reply, as it is a major derail.

Funny how all these creationists use arguments that show they have no clue what evolution is about, just have to read most of the creationist posts here that argue for things that have nothing to do with evolution.

Click to expand...

What arguments?

Jonaitis said:

"Christians" are compromising on so many fundamental issues these days, from LGBT to abortion. The arguments are painful to listen to, going as far as to distort Scripture to align it with their preferences and political agenda. I've heard well-known and respected teachers defend theistic evolution to their own harm and that of others.



If morals are based on societal norms or what is socially acceptable, then your worldview is self-defeating. All that you stated on this forum has no substance of truth, if that is true.

I wonder if this means that you don't believe slavery was at one point wrong, because it was a norm for quite a while. It would also mean that the emancipation was morally wrong, led by the minority who believed differently. Is this correct?

Click to expand...

Interesting that you would use the slavery argument, considering the Biblical god seemed to have no issue with it. When pressed on this point, Christian's often resort to "societal norms" of the time. As if at least some morality is even subjective in God's eyes.

You can say christians are dumb all you want but they have an advantage, they know about the most important topic: God and the true purpose and meaning of life, and after knowing God you know he created the universe.

Mathetes66 said:

What arguments?

Click to expand...

evolution is random
X isn't evolution it's micro or some other variant on that, as the scientists get to say what evolution is not the creationists.
Anything to do with information theory
anything that violates SO's law
show me a cat turning into a dog
if there we evolved from monkey's why are there still monkey's


alot of others I can't think of at midnight :> It's usually most of the arguments I see here.

46AND2 said:

Interesting that you would use the slavery argument, considering the Biblical god seemed to have no issue with it. When pressed on this point, Christian's often resort to "societal norms" of the time. As if at least some morality is even subjective in God's eyes.

Click to expand...

The bible says people should had to treat well their slaves, and that if you were a slave you are better free, i don't think God likes slavery, but if you 'treated well your slaves' then the rest is like a 'contract', and God is not known to be policitally correct.
God says you should treat others as you want others to treat you that the standard God agrees on.

NBB said:

The bible says people should had to treat well their slaves, and that if you were a slave you are better free, i don't think God likes slavery, but if you 'treated well your slaves' then the rest is like a 'contract', and God is not known to be policitally correct.

Click to expand...

No, HEBREW slaves were to be treated well. Foreigners were just slaves. Bible makes that distinction very clear.

Occams Barber said:

Here you go Kenny.
The basics of evolution. Each module is extremely brief and written in plain, non-technical, English with explanatory diagrams.

Courtesy of the University of California Berkeley.

Evolution 101 Table of Contents

1. An introduction to evolution
Evolution briefly defined and explained

2. The history of life: looking at the patterns
How does evolution lead to the tree of life?

• The family tree
  
• Understanding phylogenies
  
• Building the tree
  
• Homologies and analogies
  
• Using the tree for classification
  
• Adding time to the tree
  
• How we know what happened when
  
• Important events in the history of life

3. Mechanisms: the processes of evolution
How does evolution work?

• Descent with modification
  
• Mechanisms of change
  
• Genetic variation
  
• Mutations
  
• The causes of mutations
  
• Gene flow
  
• Sex and genetic shuffling
  
• Development
  
• Genetic drift
  
• Natural selection
  
• What about fitness?
  
• Sexual selection
  
• Artificial selection
  
• Adaptation
  
• Misconceptions about natural selection
• Coevolution

4. Microevolution
How does evolution work on a small scale?

• Defining microevolution
  
• Detecting microevolutionary change
  
• Mechanisms of microevolution

5. Speciation
What are species anyway, and how do new ones evolve?

• Defining a species
  
• Defining speciation
  
• Causes of speciation
  
• Reproductive isolation
  
• Evidence for speciation
  
• Cospeciation

6. Macroevolution
How does evolution work on a grand scale?

• What is macroevolution?
  
• Patterns in macroevolution

7. The big issues
What are some of the big questions that evolutionary biologists are trying to answer?

• The pace of evolution
  
• Diversity in clades
  
• Looking at complexity
  
• Trends in evolution

Click to expand...

Sorry links are not proof.

Checkmate evolutionist.

NBB said:

The bible says people should had to treat well their slaves, and that if you were a slave you are better free, i don't think God likes slavery, but if you 'treated well your slaves' then the rest is like a 'contract', and God is not known to be policitally correct.
God says you should treat others as you want others to treat you that the standard God agrees on.

Click to expand...

Stoning your child to death for disobedience or stoning women (but not men) to death for not being virgins on their wedding night. Are these acceptable now? If not, why not?

Phil W said:

An alternative to creation based on a loving God who gives us everything we require to love each other.

Click to expand...

That is an assertion, not evidence.

The "system" tries to remove any evidence of the real God, and the ways and means of life without corruption.

Click to expand...

What "evidence"? Assertions and hopes and dreams are not "evidence."

Any ideas as to why there is so much drug abuse, abortion, racism, and massacres at crowded places?

Click to expand...

Crowded places.
You really think that those things do not occur in rural areas? I live in a rural area, and they occur, proportionally, just as much as they do anywhere else.

Having been taught by the "system" that there is no God, it is easy to live a life with our own scale of morality instead of a scale based on love.

Click to expand...

Right - then what is your excuse for people claiming to be the best Christians who do those t5hings?

Whence Ted Haqgard?

Or this guy:

Florida minister arrested on child inappropriate content charges

or this one:

Ex-Oklahoma state senator sentenced to 15 years on child sex trafficking charge

or this waste of atoms:

Jill Duggar’s Husband Slams Josh Duggar Years After Sex Scandal