Revelation 9: Tormented 5 MONTHS and death fleeing

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 13, 2019

Davy said: ↑
The desolation in the "abomination of desolation" phrase is about spiritual desolation of the sanctuary, not destruction of the sanctuary.

In 170 B.C., Antiochus Epiphanes took Jerusalem, went into the temple, and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and setup an idol abomination to Zeus in false worship. That ended sacrifices and old covenant worship until the Jews after the war cleansed the temple and rededicated it and started up old covenant worship again. What Antiochus did is what the "vile person" description in Daniel 11 is about:
Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

shilohsfoal said:
You said its spiritual.Daniel never said it was spiritual ,nor did Jesus say it was spiritual.
Scripture plainly states Jerusalem would be desolate and it shall.

Why you believe the jerusalem made by humans cannot be destroyed is beyond belief.It was made by man and will be desolate from man.The only Jerusalem that can never be destroyed is the city of God.New Jerusalem which shall come down from heaven from God.

But Jerusalem which is of this world will be laid waste.Desolate.

shilohsfoal said:
So you believe a spiritual army will make a spiritual Jerusalem spiritually desolate.
No.That's not what scripture says. Scripture says Jerusalem,itself will be desolate.
Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

It means,without inhabitant.

Correctomundo

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! -- This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !"

Concerning the Temple, our LORD had foretold, particularly, that, notwithstanding their wonderful dimensions, there should "not be left one stone upon another that should not be thrown down ;" and, accordingly, it is recorded, in the Talmud, and by Maimonides, that Terentius Rufus, captain of the army of Titus, absolutely ploughed up the foundations of the Temple with a ploughshare. Now, also, was literally fulfilled that prophecy of Micah- "Therefore shall Zion, for your sakes (i. e. for your wickedness,) be ploughed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the LORD's house as the high places of the forest." (Micah iii. 12)

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 28, 2019

I just now added a poll thread for those that are interested in voting.
================================
A brief synopsis of the OP...........

It only took the Romans five months to take Jerusalem.............[the same amount of time the flood covered the earth Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days. ]
Revelation 9:5
=====================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24
19 And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days;
22 And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened
Mark 13
17“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20 and if the Lord did not shorten the days, no flesh had been saved; but because of the chosen, whom He did choose to Himself, He did shorten) the days.
Luke 21:
22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; and had actually eaten one half thereof, when the soldiers, allured by tile smell of food, threatened her with instant death if she refused to discover it. 'Intimidated by this menace, she immediately produced the remains of her son, which petrified them with horror.

At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes. [Revelation 9:6]

...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.
Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"
=========================
Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "a measure of grain/wheat a denari and three measures of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."

Revelation 9:5 And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months
And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion, whenever it should be striking a man;

Revelation 9:6 And in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and shall be desiring/yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.
===========================

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 1, 2019

Any other views on this topic?

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

Since my last posting, all that has been offered is a Preterist view of the destruction of the Jerusalem temple in 70 A.D. by the Romans, and a total swing away... from the actual topic of what the "abomination of desolation" is per the Daniel 11 Scripture I quoted.

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

That event is about a coming false one ending sacrifices in Jerusalem, and instead placing a idol abomination in place of those sacrifices.

Per the Jewish historian Josephus who lived in 100 A.D., he showed that the temple burned down before the Romans could get control of it. So there was NO IDOL ABOMINATION setup in the temple in 70 A.D. by the Romans.

The "abomination of desolation" is about spiritual desolation, NOT temple destruction!

summerville · Feb 23, 2020

LittleLambofJesus said:
Any other views on this topic?

Vespasian attacked in 66 AD but was driven out.. The Gentiles trampled Jerusalem for 3 years .. meaning the zealots and foreigners.. There was hard times and conflict. new Christians fled the city for Pella East of the Jordan river..Vespasian was recalled to Rome. Titus took over the command and attacked again in 70 AD with Roman troops from Syria as well as garrisons of foreign troops of the Roman Empire meaning in this case Syrians, Egyptians and Arabs. This was the tribulation according to Josephus.. with terrible famine, disease and death. The Temple was destroyed during the grape harvest late August or early September of 70 AD.

In summary, it was not the Romans who trampled on Jerusalem for 42 months in 66-70 AD. Instead, Jerusalem was trampled by the Zealots, Galileans, Idumeans, etc. They were the Gentiles spoken of in Revelation 11:1-2.

“During the Great Rebellion (66-70 CE) the Galileans and Idumeans were the most adamant fighters against Rome; they fought the Romans to the death when many Judeans were ready to accept peace terms.”

Galilee was the center of Zealotry.

Zealots were shunned by the High Priesthood in Jerusalem prior to the revolt. This disunity with other sects of Judaism confined Zealotry to its birthplace in Galilee. Yet when the revolt broke out in 66 CE, the Galilean zealots fled the Roman massacres and sought refuge in the last major Jewish stronghold: Jerusalem.

It marks out 3.5 years from the time that Nero dispatched Vespasian as his war general (early 67 AD) until Vespasian’s son, Titus, oversaw the burning of the temple in August 70 AD.

In early 68 AD Jesus ben Gamala, one of the former high priests, gave a speech in which he described what was happening to Jerusalem because of the Zealots:

“And this place, which is adored by the habitable world, and honored by such as only know it by report, as far as the ends of the earth, is trampled upon by these wild beasts born among ourselves” (Wars 4.4.3).

summerville · Feb 23, 2020

Davy said:
Since my last posting, all that has been offered is a Preterist view of the destruction of the Jerusalem temple in 70 A.D. by the Romans, and a total swing away... from the actual topic of what the "abomination of desolation" is per the Daniel 11 Scripture I quoted.

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

That event is about a coming false one ending sacrifices in Jerusalem, and instead placing a idol abomination in place of those sacrifices.

Per the Jewish historian Josephus who lived in 100 A.D., he showed that the temple burned down before the Romans could get control of it. So there was NO IDOL ABOMINATION setup in the temple in 70 A.D. by the Romans.

The "abomination of desolation" is about spiritual desolation, NOT temple destruction!

Its about both.. Antiochus IV defiled the Temple by sacrificing a pig to Zeus, but he also forbid circumcision and put Jews to death for circumcising their babies. He referred to himself as God Manifest. Antiochus IV carried out a major push to Hellenize the Jews. It was a horrible time that lead to the Maccabean Revolt.

Davy · Feb 23, 2020

summerville said:
Its about both.. Antiochus IV defiled the Temple by sacrificing a pig to Zeus, but he also forbid circumcision and put Jews to death for circumcising their babies. He referred to himself as God Manifest. Antiochus IV carried out a major push to Hellenize the Jews. It was a horrible time that lead to the Maccabean Revolt.

Antiochus IV had already been DEAD for quite a while when Jesus warned of the "abomination of desolation" during His Ministry, about 200 years after Antiochus had done the idol worship abomination in Jerusalem. Work out the math, it's not that difficult.

summerville · Feb 23, 2020

Davy said:
Antiochus IV had already been DEAD for quite a while when Jesus warned of the "abomination of desolation" during His Ministry, about 200 years after Antiochus had done the idol worship abomination in Jerusalem. Work out the math, it's not that difficult.

Yes, I know..but Jesus knew about Antiochus IV and how he had defiled the Temple. Jesus is saying when you see the Abomination of Desolation AGAIN flee to the mountains..and they did flee to Pella in 66 AD to avoid the tribulation.

Erik Nelson · Feb 24, 2020

summerville said:
Vespasian attacked in 66 AD but was driven out.. The Gentiles trampled Jerusalem for 3 years .. meaning the zealots and foreigners.. There was hard times and conflict. new Christians fled the city for Pella East of the Jordan river..Vespasian was recalled to Rome. Titus took over the command and attacked again in 70 AD with Roman troops from Syria as well as garrisons of foreign troops of the Roman Empire meaning in this case Syrians, Egyptians and Arabs. This was the tribulation according to Josephus.. with terrible famine, disease and death. The Temple was destroyed during the grape harvest late August or early September of 70 AD.

In summary, it was not the Romans who trampled on Jerusalem for 42 months in 66-70 AD. Instead, Jerusalem was trampled by the Zealots, Galileans, Idumeans, etc. They were the Gentiles spoken of in Revelation 11:1-2.

“During the Great Rebellion (66-70 CE) the Galileans and Idumeans were the most adamant fighters against Rome; they fought the Romans to the death when many Judeans were ready to accept peace terms.”

Galilee was the center of Zealotry.

Zealots were shunned by the High Priesthood in Jerusalem prior to the revolt. This disunity with other sects of Judaism confined Zealotry to its birthplace in Galilee. Yet when the revolt broke out in 66 CE, the Galilean zealots fled the Roman massacres and sought refuge in the last major Jewish stronghold: Jerusalem.

It marks out 3.5 years from the time that Nero dispatched Vespasian as his war general (early 67 AD) until Vespasian’s son, Titus, oversaw the burning of the temple in August 70 AD.

In early 68 AD Jesus ben Gamala, one of the former high priests, gave a speech in which he described what was happening to Jerusalem because of the Zealots:

“And this place, which is adored by the habitable world, and honored by such as only know it by report, as far as the ends of the earth, is trampled upon by these wild beasts born among ourselves” (Wars 4.4.3).

Galilee => Zealotry may explain why the Sadducees quipped "nothing good comes from Galilee" ???

(but Jesus was not a zealot?)

Anyway, in early 70 AD, the zealots took over the temple, and slaughtered everyone inside, such that the temple courts flowed with human blood... abomination?

And afterwards, Titus did perform a blasphemous and pagan sacrifice on the temple ruins

summerville · Feb 24, 2020

Erik Nelson said:
Galilee => Zealotry may explain why the Sadducees quipped "nothing good comes from Galilee" ???

(but Jesus was not a zealot?)

Anyway, in early 70 AD, the zealots took over the temple, and slaughtered everyone inside, such that the temple courts flowed with human blood... abomination?

And afterwards, Titus did perform a blasphemous and pagan sacrifice on the temple ruins

Judea despised Israel long before Jesus was born. (there is no evidence Jesus was a Zealot) Israel was more prosperous. Judea looked down on Israel as Hellenized half breeds and bad Jews. Over the years they fought each other.

Doesn't change the fact that the first Abomination of Desolation which Jesus referred to was when Antiochus IV (God Manifest) sacrificed a pig to Zeus in the Temple.

Erik Nelson · Feb 25, 2020

summerville said:
Judea despised Israel long before Jesus was born. (there is no evidence Jesus was a Zealot) Israel was more prosperous. Judea looked down on Israel as Hellenized half breeds and bad Jews. Over the years they fought each other.

Doesn't change the fact that the first Abomination of Desolation which Jesus referred to was when Antiochus IV (God Manifest) sacrificed a pig to Zeus in the Temple.

That was surely a foreshadowing and Prefiguration.

However, Jesus clearly thought that the abomination of Desolation was a yet future event, which that generation would witness.

Revelation 9: Tormented 5 MONTHS and death fleeing

Is Revelation 9:5 symbolizing the 5 month siege of 70Ad Jerusalem?

Yes

No

Maybe

I have never thought of it that way

Other

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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