Is God able to perfectly match us with the right spouse? Why or why not?

messianist said:

Thanks for this post.

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You are welcome. Thanks for the compliment.

PeterJames0510 said:

The largest purpose of marriage is to have children and build God's kingdom should those children choose the Lord through our teachings and example.

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I agree that procreation is God's will. But I do not agree that is the only purpose for marriage. My wife and I married late. She had to have an hysterectomy early in our marriage. It devastated me because I wanted to be a father and raise children. Should I have divorced her then because she became barren? I did not because she is the will of God for me. Did God want us to have children? Yes. But God's will does not always come to pass. Consider the very straightforward statement in Peter that He is not willing that any should perish, yet millions die rejecting Christ. We live in a fallen world. It was not God's will for Adam and Eve to disobey, yet he gives us free will that can reject Him.

Unless the Lord build the house, those who labor, labor in vain. It is the Lord who puts people together, and traditional marriage vows say "for better or worse" for a reason. God hates divorce. I did not abandon my wife because that would have been the most cruel thing to do to her. In her time of need (she wanted children, too) her need was for more love and commitment from me.

PeterJames0510 said:

But the fact is, the first couple in the Garden were not told to 'enjoy' sex, but rather to multiply, be fruitful, and replenish the earth.

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Get a grip. When you get older you will have erectile dysfunction. Sex comes to an end in marriage. Should we abandon our spouses when we no longer can have sex, too?

Again, I am not in disagreement with your point. I am saying your point is too narrow and limited. Marriage is the number one tool of Christian discipleship. Godly love is to love the other more than your self. To deny self is the heart of Christian discipleship. How can we love our enemies if we can not love our spouses who may disappoint us?

AlexDTX,

I understand your point but I think it’s a little firm. Our conception of love includes many facets. Makeup, personal experiences, and faith play a part.

The "magic" of love is idolatry, a thing of one's imagination based upon one's hopes and dreams, not reality.

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Maybe it is for some. There are those whose temperament, unselfishness, and unimpeded hearts allow them to love in ways others do not. Being on the receiving end of their love is an amazing experience. When both operate from that place it’s magical.

Note: I’m not addressing Hollywood magic in that statement.

The love of God accepts a person as he or she is, desiring the best for that person without feeling the need to change them. Yes, we all need changing, but that is the Lord's job, not ours. God's love covers the multitude of sins. That does not mean the sins are unknown, but that they are overlooked as we seek what is best in the person.

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It is one thing to impart our desires on others and another to forgo our responsibilities as a companion. I prefer the company of those whose love doesn’t ignore my weaknesses or tiptoe around difficult topics. I want to grow and be bettered as a result of our connection.

We are also mislead as to the purpose of marriage. The world tells us that it is to be happy. happiness can be in a marriage, but to be happy all the time is deception. We live in a fallen world with fallen people. The purpose of marriage is to carry each other's burdens.

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As someone with a large happiness quotient and positive outlook, I’ll have to disagree. I have chosen a grace-filled life that’s rich in joy, gratitude and peace. That doesn’t eliminate my challenges. My address is the difference between a mind at rest and a heavy spirit. Contentment and a God-centered lifestyle have made the difference.

To be like the Holy Spirit, the paraclete, to come alongside the other and build our lives together. I see no humanly possible way of doing this without the conviction that this person is the choice of the Lord for us.

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Faith and obedience are my tipping points. It matters not if I believe he’s God’s choice if the vow has been made. All that matters is my willingness to heed His will above my own.

~Bella

genez,

Thank you for providing the Hebrew translation. I appreciated the tone of your post and its emphasis on dwelling with God. I was pleasantly surprised by your reference to “inner happiness” which reflects the state I’m in today.

Believers must learn to walk in grace. Not a church program. Learn first what Scripture tells us about how to be filled with the Spirit. Not in our emotions as many end up doing today. Not according to our fears of losing out in life. Find truth and knowledge of God's Word first. Seek first the kingdom of God.. and leave all the details in His hands.

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One of the first passages I was given by the Lord echoed your statement:

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. —2 Timothy 2:15

Developing our relationship, prayer, and spiritual maturity were the things He emphasized. Holiness first. Not a partner or busyness. He desired me to understand the Word and look to Him for all things. He became my banner. Then we addressed marriage and His preparation ensued.

It’s impossible to submit to another if I’m not yielded to Him.

Not many want to do that. Some may do it for a season only, and quit when God does not provide on their terms. They leap back into conventionality.

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My preparation included a combination of study, service, and discovering my purpose. The latter would help me navigate offers to ensure they were aligned with His will.

God will give more and more inner happiness while waiting to see what God has in store for our life as we continue to keep growing in grace and knowledge.

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I agree! My life is very full. Being faithful to my mission and the tasks He’s assigned has brought abundant spoils. He’s shown me the meaning of a God-centered life where He’s the orbit. And I find that attribute immensely attractive in others.

Pray that God keeps you from the self appointed seminary agenda programmed, teachers. For, there is a Deep State in the spiritual warfare. Its out to control while using the name of Jesus.

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Indeed. We must look to Him for guidance. The tree must bear good fruit and should be tested before consuming its morsels.

Many find a wife and spend their lives doing what? Look around. How many find a good wife today ? Not enough.

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Marriage shouldn’t render me ineffective or diminish my diligence. We should spur the other towards excellence and fulfilling our Kingdom purpose.

~Bella

AlexDTX said:

It devastated me because I wanted to be a father and raise children. Did God want us to have children? Yes. But God's will does not always come to pass.

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did you consider adoption?

1 Samuel 1:27
God answered our prayers & led us to adopt a child

PeterJames0510 said:

The largest purpose of marriage is to have children and build God's kingdom should those children choose the Lord through our teachings and example.

All too often, because of how our society has become - even Christian couples are marrying and 'not having children right now' (read birth control) because they either don't feel they can or they just want to 'enjoy' the act of marriage right now.

But the fact is, the first couple in the Garden were not told to 'enjoy' sex, but rather to multiply, be fruitful, and replenish the earth.

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Mankind was told to go forth and replenish the earth. Not just the man and woman in the Garden. For they were not producing children while in innocence. They were enjoying fantastic sex just the same.

We are told they were naked and had no shame. They enjoyed phenomenal sexual relations. Its was a torment to watch by certain angels, as we see coming to a head in Genesis 6 where angels took women and produced hybrid giants with them...

Sex between a man and women goes into a deep realm withing the angelic realm who now know God intended for them to have a female counterpart. But, Lucifer and his angels rebelled and refused to repent, causing God to call off that blessing. Fallen angels refuse to admit they are wrong. But, each time they see God able to bring together a man and women who share a phenomenal and bottomless experience in making love (not simply intense sex)... It puts the fallen angels in a rage to know what it was they lost when they stepped out and claimed to have all they need, and not needing God for anything.

God rubs their nose in it. That is why the world system seeks to cheapen and dilute the God intended pleasures of a man and woman in love. Song of Songs says that this kind of love is stronger than death! And, another section of SOS states, that when its real love? The Hebrew says the flame is from "Jah." From God. God produces the intensity! Man produces only Viagra.

Now if believers want to be a factory for the human race? And, believe their purpose is to produce the latest model human beings? A 2019 model? Like car companies take pleasure in producing? That is sublimation.. Its also never understanding the depth of relationship God wants us to understand.

For a man and a woman to become one flesh? In the Spirit? This too rare of an occurrence would be a reflection and small sample of the deepest type of love we shall know once we are in our resurrection bodies and in the Lord's presence!

Its why the elect angles are happily and joyously celibate. Not as a drudgery to bear in life. For they are in the Lord's presence and they have no sin natures. Fallen angels now, depend upon their own inventions for trying to eek out some form of happiness. They promote sex in humans that will not become a threat to their need to feel that what they have is good enough. Many a human that follows their leading end up with empty lives... Claiming to have no need of anything. Yet, they are naked and full of shame.

The man and woman in the Garden were not producing children. They were producing a wondrous sexual experience that even drove certain angels to raging envy and rage. And, it is why we find homosexuality in mankind. For fallen angels in desperation attempted to create their own substitution for what God can only provide. But, fallen angels being unable to admit they are wrong, are now trying to prove (through the use of men and women) that their alternative is just as good as what God intended. Its one reason the demonic power sphere is always dragging down human sexuality to a simple formula. One that would not threaten them into facing the fact that what they have tried to provide for themselves is not anywhere close to being equal. They hate God's love and marriage blessings where they can be found.


Marriage is under attack today for that reason! For, the fallen angels are insanely jealous of what a man and woman can have when their lives are according to God's purpose and will. That requires knowledge in abundance of God's Word! Not church once a week.. or maybe twice.

The fallen angels can not find a substitute for what blessings they could have had, but rejected God before it was ever known to them. They can not equal what they lost. Even though (and its the reason why) the very first drag queens came from their midst.

grace and truth....

christine40 said:

did you consider adoption?

1 Samuel 1:27
God answered our prayers & led us to adopt a child

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Yes. Very expensive. We decided against it, however, because of our age. If we had a child, it would not have been an issue, but we were both near 40 when we married. We did not want to attend a high school graduation when 60. Also, selfishly on my part, I wanted my flesh and blood to continue.

delete OT

God's idea for marriage is that the man and woman become one flesh just as they were before Eve was taken out of him. I believe the mate with which we are to do this is in fact out there but there is so uch self will even in Christians we overrule who He has brought into our lives.

I heard a story about 50 years ago that said Eve was not taken out of Adam's head so she was not to be above him. She was not taken out of his feet to be below him. She was taken out of his side to be loved, protected and cared by him.

Neostarwcc said:

So surely if we get divorced we failed the test right? Is this in Gods plan? Since he planned out every aspect of our lives? Why or why not?

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Yes. No. Men do not obey God enough/ men do not do as He Says Daily enough to see His Will in every aspect of life, except for a few. Because men are too sinful/ selfish/ self-centered/ "lack knowledge" (of truth)/ are too easily deceived and too easily remain deceived , etc etc etc "in the flesh" ....

Dennis Rhodes said:

the whole idea that God plans out every thing in our lives is false..

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It is written in Psalms, etc,,, men choose to blame Him anyway, even when they know this, because men are so selfish and self-centered.

christine40 said:

three family members gave birth after age 40
two of those babies were "blessed surprises"
40 is not too late for parenthood

we know a couple who just adopted a 5th child (age 7)
she is in her 50's and he is in his 60's
do think that is pushing the limit!

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That was one reason. My wife had an hysterectomy. I wanted my own flesh and blood. Please don't pursue this anymore. I have no interest in defending my life, and it is off topic.

.

LaBèlla said:

Leading and choosing are different animals. He may reveal a suitable prospect but both have the freedom to choose differently.

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Sure. However, people do make the mistake of justifying their emotions to be God leading them.

Many romanticize the idea of God directing their steps. But the truth of our dichotomies and blind spots are another matter when you’re on the other side of them. He sees the hidden thing the other has not revealed and knows the end. Its not an easy road to walk.

The heart is deceitful. There are many things that sound good that aren’t good for us in the long run. I’ve learned to consider my feelings but my head is in the driver’s seat..

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I agree. As we grow older, we eventually realize that love is a decision.

The reason why we believe God allows free will is because love is a decision. Love can not come out truthfully unless it is decided on.. not because of laws, not because of impulses, not because of fear.. but a personal decision. This is one of the things I think God teaches through the concept of freewill.

genez said:

Mankind was told to go forth and replenish the earth. Not just the man and woman in the Garden. For they were not producing children while in innocence. They were enjoying fantastic sex just the same.

We are told they were naked and had no shame. They enjoyed phenomenal sexual relations. Its was a torment to watch by certain angels, as we see coming to a head in Genesis 6 where angels took women and produced hybrid giants with them...

Sex between a man and women goes into a deep realm withing the angelic realm who now know God intended for them to have a female counterpart. But, Lucifer and his angels rebelled and refused to repent, causing God to call off that blessing. Fallen angels refuse to admit they are wrong. But, each time they see God able to bring together a man and women who share a phenomenal and bottomless experience in making love (not simply intense sex)... It puts the fallen angels in a rage to know what it was they lost when they stepped out and claimed to have all they need, and not needing God for anything.

God rubs their nose in it. That is why the world system seeks to cheapen and dilute the God intended pleasures of a man and woman in love. Song of Songs says that this kind of love is stronger than death! And, another section of SOS states, that when its real love? The Hebrew says the flame is from "Jah." From God. God produces the intensity! Man produces only Viagra.

Now if believers want to be a factory for the human race? And, believe their purpose is to produce the latest model human beings? A 2019 model? Like car companies take pleasure in producing? That is sublimation.. Its also never understanding the depth of relationship God wants us to understand.

For a man and a woman to become one flesh? In the Spirit? This too rare of an occurrence would be a reflection and small sample of the deepest type of love we shall know once we are in our resurrection bodies and in the Lord's presence!

Its why the elect angles are happily and joyously celibate. Not as a drudgery to bear in life. For they are in the Lord's presence and they have no sin natures. Fallen angels now, depend upon their own inventions for trying to eek out some form of happiness. They promote sex in humans that will not become a threat to their need to feel that what they have is good enough. Many a human that follows their leading end up with empty lives... Claiming to have no need of anything. Yet, they are naked and full of shame.

The man and woman in the Garden were not producing children. They were producing a wondrous sexual experience that even drove certain angels to raging envy and rage. And, it is why we find homosexuality in mankind. For fallen angels in desperation attempted to create their own substitution for what God can only provide. But, fallen angels being unable to admit they are wrong, are now trying to prove (through the use of men and women) that their alternative is just as good as what God intended. Its one reason the demonic power sphere is always dragging down human sexuality to a simple formula. One that would not threaten them into facing the fact that what they have tried to provide for themselves is not anywhere close to being equal. They hate God's love and marriage blessings where they can be found.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against
spiritual wickedness in high places." Eph 6:12​

Marriage is under attack today for that reason! For, the fallen angels are insanely jealous of what a man and woman can have when their lives are according to God's purpose and will. That requires knowledge in abundance of God's Word! Not church once a week.. or maybe twice.

The fallen angels can not find a substitute for what blessings they could have had, but rejected God before it was ever known to them. They can not equal what they lost. Even though (and its the reason why) the very first drag queens came from their midst.

grace and truth....

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Much of this is speculative theology. So the act of marriage was in the Garden of Eden. So the act of marriage is enjoyable and no one denies it brings man and woman together.

But that angels want it, lament not having a female counterpart, or that it's really angels in Genesis 6 (which I highly doubt) - are all guesses.

Love is something that cannot stay contained in a marriage. To deduce the marriage act to nothing more than enjoyment is hedonistic at best. There are a ton of other things more pleasurable and sublime than the act of marriage, and many intense platonic friendships that don't need it.

Because love is not by itself, the act of marriage produces more human beings, more love. It is not a 'baby factory'. It is growing God's family on earth His way. I am against Popes; but John Paul II called it a Theology of the Body.

I'm not saying we shouldn't enjoy the act of marriage; I am saying that the Bible does no divorce the reality of children from the act of marriage ... but we in our "modern" society seem to strive to do so perpetually.

By the way, while the Song of Solomon is beautiful in it's love characterization of Jesus - it also does not divorce the act of marriage from children. This is so noted in that the Shulamite Bride has siblings. In fact, the Bride wants to return home to her family and bring Solomon with her after marriage.

PeterJames0510 said:

Much of this is speculative theology. So the act of marriage was in the Garden of Eden. So the act of marriage is enjoyable and no one denies it brings man and woman together.

But that angels want it, lament not having a female counterpart, or that it's really angels in Genesis 6 (which I highly doubt) - are all guesses.

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You are guessing, that I am guessing.

There is much more to know about than you now realize.


"Angels are always spoken of in the masculine gender, the feminine form of the word does not occur."* [* From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, p. 229.] Note: Isangelos, "equal to the angels," occurs in Lu. 20:36." Vines Expository Dictionary

It became evident in Genesis 6, that angels were originally created like Adam was. Without having yet a female counterpart. Adam did not rebel during the time it took to complete his work. Certain angels did rebel and refused to repent. God called off their blessings because of the mess Satan and his angels were causing in the kingdom.

PeterJames0510 said:

By the way, while the Song of Solomon is beautiful in it's love characterization of Jesus - it also does not divorce the act of marriage from children. This is so noted in that the Shulamite Bride has siblings. In fact, the Bride wants to return home to her family and bring Solomon with her after marriage.

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Solomon became a horrible philanderer. He had a thousand wives.

The Song of Songs is about the "one that got away." The "one who knew true love and resisted him." The Shulamite women had a shepherd lover who sought her out and finally rescued her away from Solomon's attempt to seduce her into his harem. Its a story about her true love being so great, that nothing could win her away.

The Shulamite woman never became a bride of Solomon. Solomon tried hard to woo her with all his glamour and greatness, and it failed in the end.

grace and truth...

genez said:

You are guessing, that I am guessing.

There is much more to know about than you now realize.


"Angels are always spoken of in the masculine gender, the feminine form of the word does not occur."* [* From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, p. 229.] Note: Isangelos, "equal to the angels," occurs in Lu. 20:36." Vines Expository Dictionary

It became evident in Genesis 6, that angels were originally created like Adam was. Without having yet a female counterpart. Adam did not rebel during the time it took to complete his work. Certain angels did rebel and refused to repent. God called off their blessings because of the mess Satan and his angels were causing in the kingdom.

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More speculation; so what that angels are male rather than female? It is not the act of marriage that makes one male or female. Besides, from what you quoted from Vine above - how do you get that angels were supposed to have female counterparts from that?

The idea they are angels in Genesis 6 is highly questionable. Here's a video on it.


There are different interpretations of the Song of Solomon.

Another video on who are the sons of God in Genesis 6. The point is, however, not who the sons of God are in Genesis 6. The point of this thread is to say that the act of marriage and family cannot be separated so that we just enjoy the act of marriage by itself. We should not enter into marriage if we are not going to be responsible and be ready for a family, and that should be considered when wondering whether or not it is God's will for us to marry a particular person. Pleasure in marriage is about .010 % of the equation. An important point of the equation, but not the whole story of marriage.

And actually, the true understanding of Genesis 6 should act as a warning to the person who asked this question. The fact is that the 'sons of God' are mere mortals but followers of Yahweh. And the daughters of men are pagans who would turn away the hearts of the sons of God via *beauty* (which then leads, of course, to sexual union).

We are not to be unequally yoked or taken away by the delights and beauty of a women (or vice versa with a man in the case of the ladies) who are not followers of Jesus Christ, 2nd member of the Godhead Trinity. Otherwise, the disaster of Genesis 6 is perpetuated. What happens when we marry those who are not believers? We start following their false gods and introduce compromise.

Again, *sex* is not everything. It is part of the equation, but it is not the whole equation and when it becomes the dominating part of the equation - it becomes and idol unto itself.

genez said:

It became evident in Genesis 6, that angels were originally created like Adam was. Without having yet a female counterpart.

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While the Bible does not speak of angels in the feminine, and Jesus said that in heaven we will be like the angels in that we will neither marry nor be given in marriage, that does not mean there are no feminine angels.

I am going to share a personal testimony that you may dismiss as heretical or delusional. That does not matter to me since I know what I experienced.

I have a guardian angel and her name is Helen.

It is not necessary for gender to be exclusive to procreation. Gender is in the spirit. This is why a man who undergoes sex change is still a man because he has a masculine spirit. Same with women.

My step brother was a male prostitute in NYC and underwent surgery and changed his name to Nicole. I told my mother that he still had a masculine spirit and was still a man. My mother responded that "Nicole" believed "she" had a feminine spirit and was simply getting "her" body to match "her" spirit. Since my mother remained delusional on the topic, I dropped the matter.

God does not make mistakes and put feminine spirits in the wrong body. That is not how it works. Our spirits are the blueprint behind DNA. Our bodies are formed according to our spirits. In my step brother's case, as a male prostitute, he had a feminine spirit possess him (needless to say neither my mother nor step brother were Christians), which made him feel like a girl.

While the Bible does not speak of feminine angels, that does not mean they don't exist, it simply means they are not relevant to the biblical narrative.