Is God able to perfectly match us with the right spouse? Why or why not?

fwGod

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PART THREE
Peterjames0510 said:
I also told you that the reason why Genesis 6:2 is in reference to the godly line of Seth is because Genesis 5 tells us so ... the context goes to great lengths to show the lineage of godly believers in the God they understood and knew as far as Genesis 5 went.
That would not explain the Nephilim as a result of those godly men making it with the daughters of men.

This portion I've had to edit to correct a mistake I'd made
{The Nephilim are offspring of the angels, and therefore half human and half angel.
Conversely, those sons of Seth were all of normal human conception and birth}
Peterjames0510 said:
But if He does, it will be new information He has not revealed in the Bible.
That is not a true statement. I've used nothing but God's word.
Peterjames0510 said:
We have no business speculating where the Bible is not clear.
But it is all clear from the Bible. However, what you've come up with is speculation that has no biblical support.
Peterjames0510 said:
It does not matter if every Pastor in the entire world "believes it", it doesn't make it true.
The logical fallacy of that statement is that your words could be more accurately applied to your sons of Seth assertions.. than to the biblically supported demonic procreation.
 
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GenemZ

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PART TWO
I have given three verses that use the phrase "sons of God" in the kjv.
The translators did their job. The words "sons of God" are different words in Hebrew {ben elohim} than the word in Hebrew for "angel(s)" {malak}.

Most commentaries, depending on the scholar do "clear it up". But, you most likely wouldn't accept that?
On the contrary, it's manhandling Genesis 6 to claim that there was no angelic/demonic procreation.

In Genesis 6:1-4, the offspring of the Sons of God and the daughters of men are called Nephilim, who are the “heros of old, the men of renown.” Literally, the word nephilim means “the fallen ones” and is a common euphemism for “the dead” in Hebrew.


Jesus mentioned only those angels who have remained obedient to God when speaking of humans who've remained obedient to God.
But those angels should not be thought of as in the same grouping with those fallen angels, the demons who rebelled.. As in Genesis 6:2.

Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
Do you?.. Do you really?

One major reason the Lord needed to wipe out all mankind in the flood was because if allowed to continue, the genetically tainted bodies of hybrids would have eventually cut off any possibility of the Messiah coming from the human race. Genesis 6 was an angelic attempt to prevent the coming of the Messiah into the world. His body was to come from the seed (ovum) of a human woman, as prophesied in Genesis 3:15..

Thanks for jumping in.
 
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GenemZ

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PART ONE
I wouldn't accept the teachings of David Daniels, nor would his statements about a text being tampered with be authoritative since he is a kjoa who believes that all the modern versions have been tampered with.

Oh... that was the problem.


My pastor (who is now with the Lord) taught over fifty years from the Hebrew and Greek texts. He would always begin by reading a passage to be covered from the KJV. There were quite a few times that he would tell us he would have flunked the translator of a certain verse. Its also filled with anachronisms that we will get all wrong today. Of course, he would also show us how better manuscripts exist for dealing with some passages.

Its why it could be said the Devil would love to promote the KJVO crowd to keep them in darkness, while having them think they are the superiors in understanding.

I'm no dummy. But, I barely passed English class when Shakespeare was our study in high school. I thought it was a horrible way for communicating thoughts to modern day folks who speak English. It is! That is why the Devil ran with the idea.... and found those who fall for the reasoning behind it.

If Jesus came to earth today and gathered people in the Bronx, NY? He would speak with a perfect NY accent using all the idioms as the way to communicate clearly. If He chose Milan? He would speak Italian fluently and would be perfectly understood.

But, if He chose to speak the vernacular as it was used three hundred years ago? He would have many people scratching their heads wondering what He was trying to tell them.
 
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PeterJames0510

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Guilty as charged.

You guys don't know me, so you have no clue as to my thoughts on the majority text, the Byzantine traditional readings, or the traditional text debate. So of course because I respect David Daniels (who doesn't make fun of people like we saw in this debate, downing people's supposed spiritual knowledge or lack thereof) who was himself TRAINED in all the modern versions and used to read them - I'm now that evil boogeyman KJV onlyist guy who, of course, must have antiquated beliefs and therefore is loony for evening arguing or suggesting alternative views of Genesis 6 to your views. Because of course we all know that we should label people and ignore EVERYTHING they say when they fall underneath a different label. By that line of reasoning, I should ignore everything you guys say because you use modern versions ... and yet I never advocated that.

So yup - guilty as charged. I actually place myself under the KJV and believe every word it says and I don't question what God has written or put doubts in other people's mind about the text we've received in English. I don't think that because I may have had a few semesters in Greek or Hebrew that now I'm an expert.

Please, the narrow mindedness is coming from you guys all together. I sit and receive my teachings from God under the traditional text type (so any translations that rely only on those text types). I trust the manuscripts that were originated from the Byzantine Empire [the area that the Bible actually ORIGINATED in] rather than ones that left Alexandria, Egypt at a later date. Yes, guilty as charged.

I will continue to STAND firm for the TR, Byzantine, and traditional text types as expressed in great translations like Young's Literal or KJV or Geneva, etc. until the day that I die. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. I never said you guys were bad for using modern translations, but apparently that kind of respect wouldn't be returned.

The funny thing is ... I never made this an issue, you guys made it the issue. I tried to avoid it because I try to respect those who use other translations ... look what I got for it.
 
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Guilty as charged.

You guys don't know me, so you have no clue as to my thoughts on the majority text, the Byzantine traditional readings, or the traditional text debate. So of course because I respect David Daniels (who doesn't make fun of people like we saw in this debate, downing people's supposed spiritual knowledge or lack thereof) who was himself TRAINED in all the modern versions and used to read them - I'm now that evil boogeyman KJV onlyist guy who, of course, must have antiquated beliefs and therefore is loony for evening arguing or suggesting alternative views of Genesis 6 to your views. Because of course we all know that we should label people and ignore EVERYTHING they say when they fall underneath a different label. By that line of reasoning, I should ignore everything you guys say because you use modern versions ... and yet I never advocated that.

So yup - guilty as charged. I actually place myself under the KJV and believe every word it says and I don't question what God has written or put doubts in other people's mind about the text we've received in English. I don't think that because I may have had a few semesters in Greek or Hebrew that now I'm an expert.

Please, the narrow mindedness is coming from you guys all together. I sit and receive my teachings from God under the traditional text type (so any translations that rely only on those text types). I trust the manuscripts that were originated from the Byzantine Empire [the area that the Bible actually ORIGINATED in] rather than ones that left Alexandria, Egypt at a later date. Yes, guilty as charged.

I will continue to STAND firm for the TR, Byzantine, and traditional text types as expressed in great translations like Young's Literal or KJV or Geneva, etc. until the day that I die. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. I never said you guys were bad for using modern translations, but apparently that kind of respect wouldn't be returned.

The funny thing is ... I never made this an issue, you guys made it the issue. I tried to avoid it because I try to respect those who use other translations ... look what I got for it.
I wonder what you think of KJV only having an important slip-up of interpretation here?

Here is the reason for confusion about who is doing what. Check out all the bible references using them compared to the one KJV using us. The elders are singing

Revelation 5:9-10
New International Version (NIV)
9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

Revelation 5:9-10
American Standard Version (ASV)
9 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon earth

Revelation 5:9-10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 5:9-10
The Message (MSG)
6-10 So I looked, and there, surrounded by Throne, Animals, and Elders, was a Lamb, slaughtered but standing tall. Seven horns he had, and seven eyes, the Seven Spirits of God sent into all the earth. He came to the One Seated on the Throne and took the scroll from his right hand. The moment he took the scroll, the Four Animals and Twenty-four Elders fell down and worshiped the Lamb. Each had a harp and each had a bowl, a gold bowl filled with incense, the prayers of God’s holy people. And they sang a new song:
Worthy! Take the scroll, open its seals.
Slain! Paying in blood, you bought men and women,
Bought them back from all over the earth,
Bought them back for God.
Then you made them a Kingdom, Priests for our God,
Priest-kings to rule over the earth.

Revelation 5:9-10
New International Version (NIV)
9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

Revelation 5:9-10
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 They sing a new song:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God
saints from[a] every tribe and language and people and nation;
10 you have made them to be a kingdom and priests serving our God,
and they will reign on earth.”



Peace
 
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GenemZ

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I wonder what you think of KJV only having an important slip-up of interpretation here?

Here is the reason for confusion about who is doing what. Check out all the bible references using them compared to the one KJV using us. The elders are singing

Revelation 5:9-10
New International Version (NIV)
9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

Revelation 5:9-10
American Standard Version (ASV)
9 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon earth

Revelation 5:9-10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 5:9-10
The Message (MSG)
6-10 So I looked, and there, surrounded by Throne, Animals, and Elders, was a Lamb, slaughtered but standing tall. Seven horns he had, and seven eyes, the Seven Spirits of God sent into all the earth. He came to the One Seated on the Throne and took the scroll from his right hand. The moment he took the scroll, the Four Animals and Twenty-four Elders fell down and worshiped the Lamb. Each had a harp and each had a bowl, a gold bowl filled with incense, the prayers of God’s holy people. And they sang a new song:
Worthy! Take the scroll, open its seals.
Slain! Paying in blood, you bought men and women,
Bought them back from all over the earth,
Bought them back for God.
Then you made them a Kingdom, Priests for our God,
Priest-kings to rule over the earth.

Revelation 5:9-10
New International Version (NIV)
9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

Revelation 5:9-10
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 They sing a new song:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God
saints from[a] every tribe and language and people and nation;
10 you have made them to be a kingdom and priests serving our God,
and they will reign on earth.”



Peace

I have one Bible with about 30- 40 translations in parallel. I also refer to a Williams trans and will at times refer to my Kenneth Wuest. Problem is.. Translations say something, and then it stops with that translation. The one who did the translating can not go back and make corrections as he/she learns more. Its a problem with translations, and one reason that new ones arise to make some corrections (but as they add errors of their own).

My pastor would at times show how the KJV nailed it, and that many of the newer translations failed. Failed, most likely from political/denominational reasons.

The best translation will come from someone who is genuine and teaching from the original languages, as a full time student of God's Word.

Yet.. nothing in this life will be perfect. If it were? No one could be accountable for what they chose to believe.
 
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PeterJames0510

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I wonder what you think of KJV only having an important slip-up of interpretation here?

Here is the reason for confusion about who is doing what. Check out all the bible references using them compared to the one KJV using us. The elders are singing

Revelation 5:9-10
New International Version (NIV)
9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

Revelation 5:9-10
American Standard Version (ASV)
9 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon earth

Revelation 5:9-10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 5:9-10
The Message (MSG)
6-10 So I looked, and there, surrounded by Throne, Animals, and Elders, was a Lamb, slaughtered but standing tall. Seven horns he had, and seven eyes, the Seven Spirits of God sent into all the earth. He came to the One Seated on the Throne and took the scroll from his right hand. The moment he took the scroll, the Four Animals and Twenty-four Elders fell down and worshiped the Lamb. Each had a harp and each had a bowl, a gold bowl filled with incense, the prayers of God’s holy people. And they sang a new song:
Worthy! Take the scroll, open its seals.
Slain! Paying in blood, you bought men and women,
Bought them back from all over the earth,
Bought them back for God.
Then you made them a Kingdom, Priests for our God,
Priest-kings to rule over the earth.

Revelation 5:9-10
New International Version (NIV)
9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

Revelation 5:9-10
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 They sing a new song:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God
saints from[a] every tribe and language and people and nation;
10 you have made them to be a kingdom and priests serving our God,
and they will reign on earth.”



Peace

I do understand that the majority of newer modern Bible versions have differences in translations; that is a problem, especially when we consider the new Bible versions are based on the Alexandrian texts. Of course you will get different readings.

For instance, the early church writer, Origen, says this: ""...the differences among the manuscripts [of the Gospels] have become great,either through the negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they lengthen or shorten, as they please."

So we see that even Origen himself (who has questionable theology) recognizes that as early as 200 AD, the manuscripts coming out of Egypt Alexandria (the source of modern day Bible translations) are corrupt. Why would I trust a corrupt source?

As far as the example you gave,
Revelation 5:9-10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

I FAIL to see the problem. It's written in plain English. They (the 4 beasts and four and twenty elders of verse 8) sang 'thou was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

I fail to see the problem. The Four and Twenty Elders and the Four Beasts are proclaiming God's greatness and we hear the song they sing, and if *they* are singing the song and we were hearing them - then of course they would use the word *we* to refer to themselves. There are far worse examples that TR, BYZANTINE, and modern Bible critics use to try to fight the KJV then that verse. There are no translation issues in that verse.

Maybe you are suggesting the Four and Twenty Elders and the Four Beasts are not *saints*, and while that might be true - that is an interpretive issue and not a translational issue.

Other questions is that when someone says "Well the KJV is wrong here" - my next question - oh? You were on the translation committees of the KJV when all 54 of them reviewed their translations and discussed Hebrew, Greek, and Latin and you were there to understand the translational issues they came up with and now you are expert at knowing why a certain translation is incorrect?

Most people today who consider themselves Greek and or Hebrew experts cannot speak Greek to a native Greek individual today. We have videos on youtube where we know that a native Greek speaker hearing Koine Greek would hear it as a modern English person today hears Elizabethan English. It may not be the type of English we speak, but it is understandable. But most Greek scholars today could not speak to a modern Greek person - and these are the people telling me my Bible is wrong in what it says?

God forbid I ever stand before God's people at all and open up a Bible based on the traditional TR, or Byzantine, or Majority Texts in a fine translation from this manuscript family and I ever say to them 'Well, what you read in this Bible was wrong; actually, it should be translated as such and such and thus and thus and this is because several important modern Greek professors say so." Either God preserved His word in the English language and we can have confidence in it - or He didn't.

But as I said in the past, this particular topic is SEPARATE from the Genesis 6 angel thing and I'm disappointed you brought it up to make me and others like me or stick with KJV or KJV like translations look bad and foolish. The fact is, I've already written on this in the past:

#1) All the Alexandrian manuscripts (the ones I don't like) do *not* use the word 'angel' in the Hebrew in Genesis 6. The one exception, you can actually see the manuscript for yourself and see that a scribe or someone erased what was written there and put other words in there ... the same thing that modern textual critics usually complain happened in the TR and then down the KJV for being inferior.

You can see at this link that almost ALL modern Bible versions (again, most of the versions I don't like) do *not* use the word angel in Genesis 6. You actually have to click the link to see all the modern versions take on this.

Genesis 6:3 So the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days shall be 120 years."

There is so much more I want to say because the information presented thus far on your end has been faulty. However, I'll let the reader decide - my only beef here is how the KJV today gets tons of supposedly "qualified" people to say how terrible a translation it is and then this seems to give the average Christian today permission to move on to any translation that reads the way they want to read it.

I don't do that because I trust Byzantine manuscripts and the translations that are produced by them. I put myself under the KJV and I don't question it; it questions me and my faith and asks me to live up to God's standards.

Now if you want to use other translations in your Christian walk, fine. I don't trust them, but I'll respect you for using it as long as your life reflects the truths of God's word. But don't reduce the entire argument of Genesis 6 on which manuscripts are being used as your manuscripts and your modern Bibles don't even use the word angel. So it is NOT based on the type of Bible you use in *that* instance.

Another consideration should be given to the Resurrected Christ who says, "39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Jesus is very clear here; spirits (such as angels) do not have flesh and bones. And this is verified in the number of people possessed by demons in the New Testament - they need to seek out bodies since they don't have their own.

So if they don't have bodies, how can they mate with mortal women in Genesis 6?
 
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I do understand that the majority of newer modern Bible versions have differences in translations; that is a problem, especially when we consider the new Bible versions are based on the Alexandrian texts. Of course you will get different readings.

For instance, the early church writer, Origen, says this: ""...the differences among the manuscripts [of the Gospels] have become great,either through the negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they lengthen or shorten, as they please."

So we see that even Origen himself (who has questionable theology) recognizes that as early as 200 AD, the manuscripts coming out of Egypt Alexandria (the source of modern day Bible translations) are corrupt. Why would I trust a corrupt source?

As far as the example you gave,
Revelation 5:9-10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

I FAIL to see the problem. It's written in plain English. They (the 4 beasts and four and twenty elders of verse 8) sang 'thou was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

I fail to see the problem. The Four and Twenty Elders and the Four Beasts are proclaiming God's greatness and we hear the song they sing, and if *they* are singing the song and we were hearing them - then of course they would use the word *we* to refer to themselves. There are far worse examples that TR, BYZANTINE, and modern Bible critics use to try to fight the KJV then that verse. There are no translation issues in that verse.

Maybe you are suggesting the Four and Twenty Elders and the Four Beasts are not *saints*, and while that might be true - that is an interpretive issue and not a translational issue.

Other questions is that when someone says "Well the KJV is wrong here" - my next question - oh? You were on the translation committees of the KJV when all 54 of them reviewed their translations and discussed Hebrew, Greek, and Latin and you were there to understand the translational issues they came up with and now you are expert at knowing why a certain translation is incorrect?

Most people today who consider themselves Greek and or Hebrew experts cannot speak Greek to a native Greek individual today. We have videos on youtube where we know that a native Greek speaker hearing Koine Greek would hear it as a modern English person today hears Elizabethan English. It may not be the type of English we speak, but it is understandable. But most Greek scholars today could not speak to a modern Greek person - and these are the people telling me my Bible is wrong in what it says?

God forbid I ever stand before God's people at all and open up a Bible based on the traditional TR, or Byzantine, or Majority Texts in a fine translation from this manuscript family and I ever say to them 'Well, what you read in this Bible was wrong; actually, it should be translated as such and such and thus and thus and this is because several important modern Greek professors say so." Either God preserved His word in the English language and we can have confidence in it - or He didn't.

But as I said in the past, this particular topic is SEPARATE from the Genesis 6 angel thing and I'm disappointed you brought it up to make me and others like me or stick with KJV or KJV like translations look bad and foolish. The fact is, I've already written on this in the past:

#1) All the Alexandrian manuscripts (the ones I don't like) do *not* use the word 'angel' in the Hebrew in Genesis 6. The one exception, you can actually see the manuscript for yourself and see that a scribe or someone erased what was written there and put other words in there ... the same thing that modern textual critics usually complain happened in the TR and then down the KJV for being inferior.

You can see at this link that almost ALL modern Bible versions (again, most of the versions I don't like) do *not* use the word angel in Genesis 6. You actually have to click the link to see all the modern versions take on this.

Genesis 6:3 So the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days shall be 120 years."

There is so much more I want to say because the information presented thus far on your end has been faulty. However, I'll let the reader decide - my only beef here is how the KJV today gets tons of supposedly "qualified" people to say how terrible a translation it is and then this seems to give the average Christian today permission to move on to any translation that reads the way they want to read it.

I don't do that because I trust Byzantine manuscripts and the translations that are produced by them. I put myself under the KJV and I don't question it; it questions me and my faith and asks me to live up to God's standards.

Now if you want to use other translations in your Christian walk, fine. I don't trust them, but I'll respect you for using it as long as your life reflects the truths of God's word. But don't reduce the entire argument of Genesis 6 on which manuscripts are being used as your manuscripts and your modern Bibles don't even use the word angel. So it is NOT based on the type of Bible you use in *that* instance.

Another consideration should be given to the Resurrected Christ who says, "39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Jesus is very clear here; spirits (such as angels) do not have flesh and bones. And this is verified in the number of people possessed by demons in the New Testament - they need to seek out bodies since they don't have their own.

So if they don't have bodies, how can they mate with mortal women in Genesis 6?
Nvmnd
 
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My complete and total FAULT. I thought I was responding to the other guy that had like 5 parts. I didn't mean to spew all that at you.

In short, I don't trust manuscripts from Egypt because even the Egyptian Origen didn't trust them. I trust the Traditional Text of the KJV or Geneva or Literal Young's Translations or maybe even NKJV ... translations that stick with the traditional text type, not the newer modern translations. Thank you.
 
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~Zao~

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My complete and total FAULT. I thought I was responding to the other guy that had like 5 parts. I didn't mean to spew all that at you.

In short, I don't trust manuscripts from Egypt because even the Egyptian Origen didn't trust them. I trust the Traditional Text of the KJV or Geneva or Literal Young's Translations or maybe even NKJV ... translations that stick with the traditional text type, not the newer modern translations. Thank you.
Still a diversion from the question of why the KJV diverts from all the other interpretations.
 
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PeterJames0510

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Still a diversion from the question of why the KJV diverts from all the other interpretations.

Not quite as the manuscripts of the traditional text type use the term 'us', which I don't see as incorrect. If the Four and Twenty Elders and the Four Bests are singing the song and they are representatives of the Old and New Testament saints and the beasts are representative of world empires - then it makes sense that they are singing *as representatives* of all the saints and saying that 'we' will reign, 'we have been redeemed', etc. etc.

I don't find any real inconsistency with that.
 
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~Zao~

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Not quite as the manuscripts of the traditional text type use the term 'us', which I don't see as incorrect. If the Four and Twenty Elders and the Four Bests are singing the song and they are representatives of the Old and New Testament saints and the beasts are representative of world empires - then it makes sense that they are singing *as representatives* of all the saints and saying that 'we' will reign, 'we have been redeemed', etc. etc.

I don't find any real inconsistency with that.
It’s just a difference in beliefs.
 
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PeterJames0510

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It’s just a difference in beliefs.

Or interpretation.

I just hate it that traditional text types translations today are often 'downed' and the newer translations seem to thrive by questioning the older ones.
 
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