Commandments Question

Vicky gould · Sep 21, 2019

klutedavid said:
Hello Vicky.

Here are some verses about why Gentiles are not under the law.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Acts 13:39
And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Hi, I agree but when anyone Jew or Gentile come to Christ the written Law is at an end. The Royal Law of Love is now in effect and for those who think the Law of Love is a joke the Lord who was the Lawgiver on Sinai sat on another Mount. On Sinai the ‘ministry of death’ was given. On an unnamed Mount the Lord explained the difference between Law and Grace. Turn the other cheek , just looking in lust on the opposite sex is adultery, etc. this is the Royal Law of the kingdom. The contrasts between the two mounts is striking as well no living being could

The Abrahamic Covenant was duly established and we are told no other covenant could be made part of it. The Mosaic Covenant had a time that when it happened put an end to the Law. That deadline was when the “Seed” to whom it pointed to came it was at an end. This was the Son of Abraham and the Sole Heir Of Abraham’s covenant.

One last thing. When we are told the Mosaic covenant was added to the Abrahamic covenant we have made the mistake, some anyhow, of understanding this to be like our March but that is a different word and the word used here means placing alongside of the other not combining the two and making one covenant. It’s like two roads one going to the place it is supposed to end Written Law and one that is Eternal Abrahamic.

Vicky gould · Sep 21, 2019

klutedavid said:
Hello Vicky.

Here are some verses about why Gentiles are not under the law.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Acts 13:39
And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Hi, good hearing from you I pray you are well. I think I got this and answered it. If you don’t find it I will do so again.

Vicky gould · Sep 21, 2019

klutedavid said:
Hello Vicky.

Here are some verses about why Gentiles are not under the law.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Acts 13:39
And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Nicely done hard for anyone to argue this. I am on board with you, thanks. One of my favorites is having them read the Law put us to death to the Law through the Law. If it weren’t so serious it would be comical to see the contortions they must go fourth. So far two folks on this site refused to cite for me any commentators. Sad and goofy. One believes that Christ came to reveal the Kingdom and not the King. I would really like to read who is teaching such things along with the claim saved by Grace lost by our works

klutedavid · Sep 21, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Hi, good hearing from you I pray you are well. I think I got this and answered it. If you don’t find it I will do so again.

Hello Vicky.

Your doing well, I just threw some verses in to assist.

Galatians 3:12
However, the Law is not of faith.

klutedavid · Sep 21, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Nicely done hard for anyone to argue this. I am on board with you, thanks. One of my favorites is having them read the Law put us to death to the Law through the Law. If it weren’t so serious it would be comical to see the contortions they must go fourth. So far two folks on this site refused to cite for me any commentators. Sad and goofy. One believes that Christ came to reveal the Kingdom and not the King. I would really like to read who is teaching such things along with the claim saved by Grace lost by our works

Yes, the posts are varied and reflect different traditions and interpretations from various eras in Christian history.

How some people read the scripture is disturbing at times and this is how they were taught to read the scripture. They quote verses and ignore the context of the letter.

They are able to alter the simple meaning of a text because that is what they were taught to do. If the verse states that they are not under the law, then they alter the meaning of the verse so that it says that they are under the law.

They often ignore early Christian history and early church letters even when scholars verify that the letters are authentic.

They will state that you are under the ten commandments when that instruction is not even written in the New Testament.

They see a distinction between the ten commandments and what they call the ceremonial law, i.e., the rest of the law and the prophets.

Vicky gould · Sep 21, 2019

There are two I have run into that refuse to tell who they get these things they espouse. My favorite so far is Christ came not to reveal Himself He was all about the kingdom. Please, please tell me who teaches this. Thanks for support and your spirit it is more refreshing than you might know. God bless

Vicky gould · Sep 21, 2019

klutedavid said:
Yes, the posts are varied and reflect different traditions and interpretations from various eras in Christian history.

How some people read the scripture is disturbing at times and this is how they were taught to read the scripture. They quote verses and ignore the context of the letter.

They are able to alter the simple meaning of a text because that is what they were taught to do. If the verse states that they are not under the law, then they alter the meaning of the verse so that it says that they are under the law.

They often ignore early Christian history and early church letters even when scholars verify that the letters are authentic.

They will state that you are under the ten commandments when that instruction is not even written in the New Testament.

They see a distinction between the ten commandments and what they call the ceremonial law, i.e., the rest of the law and the prophets.

Hi what are you getting these out of I have a ton of research books and always looking for more. Thanks

klutedavid · Sep 21, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Hi what are you getting these out of I have a ton of research books and always looking for more. Thanks

Most of the scripture was just simply reading the text itself.

The historical information is a long winded process whereby you start with a simple search. On the basis of early church authors in the first three centuries which provides lists of the early church letters. From there you follow links and it's very laborious but fruitful at times; an investigation of what the authors wrote about.

The Sabbath and law debate has been underway since the church began.

klutedavid · Sep 21, 2019

Vicky gould said:
There are two I have run into that refuse to tell who they get these things they espouse. My favorite so far is Christ came not to reveal Himself He was all about the kingdom. Please, please tell me who teaches this. Thanks for support and your spirit it is more refreshing than you might know. God bless

From Christiancourier.com

Several theories have been proposed as to the significance of “kingdom” in these respective points below.

Some contend the coming of the kingdom was “fulfilled” in the transfiguration event a week later (Evans 1990, 149).
Others allege that the terminal focus of the text was in the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 (Lenski 1964, 357).
Millennialists insist that the passage finds its fulfillment in the second coming of Christ and the establishment of an earthly theocratic regime at the commencement of the “Millennium” (Carson 1984, 382).
Others affirm the prophecy finds its most reasonable realization in the events of Pentecost with the establishment of Christ’s church and the commencement of his heavenly reign.

klutedavid · Sep 21, 2019

Vicky gould said:
There are two I have run into that refuse to tell who they get these things they espouse. My favorite so far is Christ came not to reveal Himself He was all about the kingdom. Please, please tell me who teaches this. Thanks for support and your spirit it is more refreshing than you might know. God bless

The scripture is the revelation of the Christ to humanity. Jesus is the beginning (YHWH) and the end of the scripture, the alpha and the omega of everything. It's all about Him and we are along for the ride.

Here He is in the Old Testament.

Daniel 10:5-6
I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

Then He is seen in the New Testament.

Revelation 1:12-16
Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lamp stands; and in the middle of the lamp stands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

They are identical.

timothyu · Sep 21, 2019

klutedavid said:
It's all about Him and we are along for the ride.

What were His exact words as to why He was sent?

Michael Vichiola · Sep 21, 2019

Michael Vichiola said:
Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V

I just want the truth. Because everyones saying yes no yes no yes no yes no (like a pinball machine) )

timothyu · Sep 21, 2019

Michael Vichiola said:
I just want the truth. Because everyones saying yes no yes no yes no yes no (like a pinball machine) )

While the accurate posts often slip past the flippers un-noticed/unresponded to as they are unfamiliar to what many have been taught.

Michael Vichiola · Sep 21, 2019

timothyu said:
While the accurate posts often slip past the flippers un-noticed/unresponded to as they are unfamiliar to what many have been taught.

?????

Michael Vichiola · Sep 21, 2019

Vicky gould said:
Nicely done hard for anyone to argue this. I am on board with you, thanks. One of my favorites is having them read the Law put us to death to the Law through the Law. If it weren’t so serious it would be comical to see the contortions they must go fourth. So far two folks on this site refused to cite for me any commentators. Sad and goofy. One believes that Christ came to reveal the Kingdom and not the King. I would really like to read who is teaching such things along with the claim saved by Grace lost by our works

so then what are these verse saying?

Vicky gould · Sep 21, 2019

Michael Vichiola said:
?????

I am so happy you contacted me I was searching to find you but I am not so good on computers. But the reason I wanted to talk with you there are some who come across as knowing a lot and have some screwy teachings. Ask them who the commentators are they have gleaned these things from and never an answer. You may have already been in contact with I would guess at least one of the two I know of.

Michael Vichiola · Sep 21, 2019

Vicky gould said:
I am so happy you contacted me I was searching to find you but I am not so good on computers. But the reason I wanted to talk with you there are some who come across as knowing a lot and have some screwy teachings. Ask them who the commentators are they have gleaned these things from and never an answer. You may have already been in contact with I would guess at least one of the two I know of.

so again, what's God saying through these verses?

klutedavid · Sep 21, 2019

timothyu said:
What were His exact words as to why He was sent?

John 12
44 And Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment--what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."

Vicky gould · Sep 21, 2019

Michael Vichiola said:
so then what are these verse saying?

May I call you Michael? My name is Vicky.

What is being said is simple once it is seen. The written Law, known as the Mosaic Covenant was designed to accomplish some things and not others. One of the major things the Lord designed His Law to do was but those who believe in Christ to death in the Lord through His cross. We are dead to the Law through the Law. Just as if I was to die I would be dead to the laws of men. if their error was not so dangerous it would be funny. Being so bad it grieves me.

The written Law was designed to bring sinful man to a knowledge of his sin
Then it was to condemn men that they would know their need for a Savior
Then it was to lead them to that Savior and Having done so it was at an end.
At that point Grace took over for Law because Grace has the power for men to live godly lives.
Law prevents us from living for the Lord and keeps us from being the Bride of Christ.

There is so much more I would love to talk with you more about these things. Thanks and God bless

Vicky gould · Sep 21, 2019

Michael Vichiola said:
so again, what's God saying through these verses?

are you speaking about the law putting us to death to the Law? Did you get my post looking at what it says? or are you speaking of other verses

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