Michael Vichiola

Active Member
May 11, 2019
61
22
24
WInsted
✟21,416.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V
 

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation.
Yes, seems confused. In Scripture, it was only a few thousand years ago (the Jews can tell more precisely, as can any Biblical expositor who looks into it in the timelines in Scripture)... it was only a few thousand years ago that Yahuweh gave the ten words (commandments) to Moses and the Israelites. (and TORAH)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: klutedavid
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?
If someone pays for a speeding ticket for you ,

does that also mean you can go speed ad lib (at your pleasure) ?

Does it mean the law against speeding is no longer a law ?
 
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,679
68
Tolworth
✟369,529.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago

No one who takes the bible seriously assumes that there are billions of years recorded in it.

having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.'

Sin is failing to follow the to commandments. the law tells us what sin is and what God expects from us.
Sin is dealt with through Jesus's death and resurection as
Romans 3:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Note what it says sinners justified by grace, and through our faith and because of this we keep the law.

I'll give you an even better reason.
Jesus said. 'If You Love ME you will Obey my Commands.' Jesus is talking about the 10 commandments.
To show that you Love him. do you?
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,323
8,368
up there
✟302,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Jesus said. 'If You Love ME you will Obey my Commands.' Jesus is talking about the 10 commandments.
To show that you Love him. do you?
More likely His two commandments which covered all the others, putting the will of God before our own and the second which is the same, loving all as self.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: klutedavid
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
More likely His two commandments which covered all the others, putting the will of God before our own and the second which is the same, loving all as self.
i.e. if you keep the commandments, you keep one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, and more.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,323
8,368
up there
✟302,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
i.e. if you keep the commandments, you keep one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, and more.
Or you simplify the process as Jesus did and cover them all with two that say more concisely the same thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JustRachel
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Or you simplify the process as Jesus did and cover them all with two that say more concisely the same thing.
Sorry, no. That doesn't work with people today. Too many wrongly , in error, seem to think they are keeping the two (often happens when they say they only have to keep two),
yet they don't keep any, not the two, nor the ten, nor one, two, three.... etc.....
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
One thing Michael: there is no such division of "ceremonial law," "civil law," or " moral law." It is only the law and James says if you break it in one point you break it in all points.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,323
8,368
up there
✟302,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Sorry, no. That doesn't work with people today.
Didn't work then either. Simply man following their own will as usual. Missed the whole point of Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom of separation between ways of Kingdom and world of man, that is will of God and will of man. Very few churches teach it..
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,323
8,368
up there
✟302,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Simply because the original sin was putting the will of man before the will of God. Any stumble no matter now small is a return to man's will.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,638
5,587
Utah
✟709,623.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V

God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation.

Not "billions of years ago" God has always been. The 10 commandments represent the basis of His laws ... the law-side of His character. They are eternal. Sin is transgression of the law ... without law there is lawlessness. Lucifer/satan and the 1/3 angels were cast out of heaven because they transgressed His law(s).

John 8:44
New International Version
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it"

Yes, He kept the law ... the 10 perfectly (fulfilled)

And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away ...
he has taken away, nailing it to the cross ...

Correct ... the ceremonial laws were put in place for a few reasons. After Jesus was sacrificed and ascended to heaven there was no more reason for this system. Jesus was/is the final sacrifice for all ... for all time(s).

Hebrews 10:1-18

Christ's Sacrifice Once for All

10 For since the law (mosaic ceremonial law) has but a shadow (copy of the real one in heaven) of the good things to come instead of the true form (sanctuary in heaven) of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Why did God put the earthly sanctuary system in place. For communication in a visual way ... as a example/means to better understand Him and His ways.

Psalms 77:13
King James Version
Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

1. The sacrifices etc ... example of that everyone sins and needs a savior (pointing to Jesus the messiah to come).

2. Also, so they and we would understand the sanctuary system (as the real sanctuary is in heaven) ... Jesus is our high priest in heaven. Hebrews 4:14

3. To help better understand His word. References to the sanctuary system are used frequently throughout His word .... literally but also symbolically ... as is especially the case in the book of Revelation. It is really worth ones while to study the OT sanctuary system in correlation with Revelation.

... take away the sabbath?

This is where people believe differently. Because both the 10 and the mosaic law were given at the same time ... many assume the "all or nothing approach". That is .... the 10 are included with the mosaic laws.

However this is not the case .... like I said ... sin began in heaven .... transgression of the 10. Of the 10, one can not just pick one (right out of the middle of the 10) and say ... all except #4 (yet they do). Jesus kept the Sabbath (even in His death), all the apostles kept the Sabbath. Some will argue ... Jesus was a Jew and that is why He kept it. Yet, losing the more important matter, Jesus was/is God. Jesus always does the will of the Father and does so perfectly.

Also, Jesus stated He is Lord of the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:8
New International Version
For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

EVERYTHING Jesus taught was based on the 10 commandments ... Jesus didn't change the law ... what He did is magnify the law .... gave us immense details, what the depth of those laws are. When you study the teachings of Jesus ... keep this in mind ... and you will see this to be true.

Matthew 5:18
New International Version
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished (until the end of time when the earth is destroyed by fire, by Him).

Now certainly we know He is not talking about the mosaic (ceremonial/sacrificial) law in Matthew 5:18. Says will not disappear ... the ceremonial/sacrificial laws did in fact cease after about 40 years after His crucifixion and we know this. The Jews of that time were so wrapped up in the sanctuary system itself ... they lost sight of the messiah to come. That is ... they were wrapped up in the physical sanctuary (and their "status" in it) and lost sight of the real one ... that is in heaven.

The change of the Sabbath day keeping to Sunday keeping. Take some time and go back and study ancient history .... worship of the sun ... goes way back (pagan roots) and eventually it crept into the church ... (most notably in the time of Constantine) with the christians of the time(s) ending up compromising their faith on some things and accepting some of the pagans beliefs, such as a immortal soul (Egyptian roots) and sunday (the first day) being "the" day of worship. Read Constantine - specifically about the venerable Day of the Sun.

Go study ancient history.
Specifically the dark ages (a very brutal time). For a long time .... christians were being persecuted, didn't even have access to the Word of God, they were't allowed to. Go read about the time of Constantine, also go read about the Council of Trent, the reformation and the counter reformation. (I'll put some links down below) a lot there!

Many of the reformers actually came out of the Roman Catholic church (such as Luther) ... think of the times .... and not having had access to His Word. This is about when the protestant movement began (protestant - protesting some of the Roman Catholic church teachings)

So ... time goes on and more is learned ... those who came over and founded America (still learning) (unknowingly) brought mis-teachings along with them as well and quite frankly... many of the protestant churches (unknowingly) hang on to some of them today, main reason we have so many denominations within protestisim. They (protestants) were enlightened as time passed and discovered new truths in Gods Word ... over time.

Old secular saying ....

'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.'

and the Lords Word confirms this.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
New Living Translation
History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new.

History of Christianity
History of Christianity - Wikipedia

Reformation & Counter Reformation
Reformation - Wikipedia

Constantine
Constantine the Great - Wikipedia

Council of Trent
Council of Trent - Wikipedia

May you be enlightened by the Word of God and the study of history. Amen.

God Bless.

Revelation 18

Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
“Come out of her, My people
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Ghostjunkie
Upvote 0

Ken Rank

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 12, 2014
7,218
5,560
Winchester, KENtucky
✟286,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation. When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk) says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9. When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14) Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V
What was canceled wasn't God's will... God's desire.... God's instructions, like not taking part in adultery, or stealing, or coveting, etc. What was canceled was our declaration of GUILT. We deserve to be separated from God because of sin, and by His grace we are drawn near. The pronouncement of guilt, that guilty verdict that came with a life sentence, was abolish by Jesus' work. Our guilt was nailed to the cross, not, "honor your father and mother."

Now... you're new, so go study this. If "fulfill" in Matthew 5:17 means do away with or abolish, then how does that verse not contradict itself and the next two verses? I do have an explanation but I would love to hear yours... what do you see? Tag me when you answer please.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,323
8,368
up there
✟302,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Sin is transgression of the law ... without law there is lawlessness. Lucifer/satan and the 1/3 angels were cast out of heaven because they transgressed His law(s).
In layman's language, they put their own will ahead of the will of God, just as man did/does..
 
  • Agree
Reactions: eleos1954
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

fwGod

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2005
1,404
532
✟65,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hello!
So ive been thinking abut this and im a bit confused. God put the 10 commandments in place billions of years ago which lead up to todays generation.
The ten commandments were given over 3,000 years ago.
When jesus came around, he said,"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it"
The law that Jesus referred to was the sacrificial requirement of the shed blood of bulls which covered the sins of the people. Read Ps.40 and Heb.10.

.."For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt the guilt of their sins. Instead, those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for me."

And one prophecy concerning the sabbath (wrking on sunday? idk)
For the Jews the Sabbath was a two day matter (Friday & Saturday). The new moon is a two day matter.

Christians observe Sunday because that is the first day of the week when Jesus had arisen from the dead.

Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. Mark 16:1-2 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.

says in amos, "When will the new moon be over that we may sell grain, and the sabbath be ended..." Amos 8:5 and then the lord answers in verse 9.
The merchants were chomping at the bit for the festival (no buying or selling) to get over so that the Jews would come and buy their produce and wares.. the merchants hiked the price that starved the poor. So God vowed to punish the merchants. The scripture reference could relate to the future falling of Babylon during the Tribulation.
When jesus is asked by a rich man about which commandments to follow he replies with, "you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, steal, give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 19:18) And in Colossians, it appears that the mosaic law was taken away when scripture says, "having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us, he has taken away, nailing it to the cross.' (Colossians 2:14)
What was taken away was our sin debt. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away our sins.

The duty to the ten commandments were not taken away.
Here are my questions: What does this verse mean?, If jesus fulfilled ceremonial law, then wouldn't that take away the sabbath? Which commandments do we follow if this is the case? From a fellow believer- Michael V
In Romans 13 the ten commandments are listed to indicate that observing to do them is the same as loving one's neighbor as yourself. Therefore, our keeping them, observing to do them is to fulfill all the law that is still our duty to do.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,323
8,368
up there
✟302,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The law that Jesus referred to was the sacrificial requirement of the shed blood of bulls which covered the sins of the people. Read Ps.40 and Heb.10.
Actually He fulfilled the law of God's will over that of mankind.
 
Upvote 0

timothyu

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2018
22,323
8,368
up there
✟302,411.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Christians observe Sunday because that is the first day of the week when Jesus had arisen from the dead.
A cute tradition that has nothing to do with God's original intention. Again an example of man's will over the will of God.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

fwGod

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2005
1,404
532
✟65,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
A cute tradition that has nothing to do with God's original intention. Again an example of man's will over the will of God.
I gave a scripture to indicate why the those in the new testament as well as majority of Christians throughout the church age have worshiped God on Sunday.

Your cute opinion is belittling the Bible. But, if you want to stand before God and be judged for such words, that's up to you.
 
Upvote 0