Christ, Israel, and the fall of Jerusalem

redleghunter said:

Jerusalem is the harlot of Babylon?

Click to expand...

70ad Jerusalem WAS a Harlot, a Queen, Mystery Babylon, a great City etc, etc, etc.......

The fact remains, God sent a Gentile army to demolish the City [much like He did with His servant, the King of Babylon].........

Jer 43:10
“and say to them, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Behold, I will send and bring Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant,...........

Click to expand...

Revelation 17:17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind
and to give Their kingdom to the Beast until shall be being finished<5055> the words of the GOD.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19
Post #6 "I SIT AS QUEEN, NOT A WIDOW......"

Revelation 18:7
“In the measure that She glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give Her torment and sorrow;
for She says in her heart, ‘I sit as Queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.'

Revelation 14:8
And another Messenger, second-one, follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of Her She has given to drink all the nations".
==============================
Lam 1:1
How deserted lies the City, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations!
She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave

Jere 51:8
Babylon has suddenly fallen and been destroyed. Wail for her! Take balm for her pain; Perhaps she may be healed.
==========================
www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory. There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection.

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! -- This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !

LittleLambofJesus said:

70ad Jerusalem WAS a Harlot, a Queen, Mystery Babylon, a great City etc, etc, etc.......

The fact remains, God sent a Gentile army to demolish the City [much like He did with His servant, the King of Babylon].........
Revelation 17:17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind
and to give Their kingdom to the Beast until shall be being finished<5055> the words of the GOD.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19
Post #6 "I SIT AS QUEEN, NOT A WIDOW......"

Revelation 18:7
“In the measure that She glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give Her torment and sorrow;
for She says in her heart, ‘I sit as Queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.'

Revelation 14:8
And another Messenger, second-one, follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of Her She has given to drink all the nations".
==============================
Lam 1:1
How deserted lies the City, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations!
She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave

Jere 51:8
Babylon has suddenly fallen and been destroyed. Wail for her! Take balm for her pain; Perhaps she may be healed.
==========================
www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory. There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection.

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! -- This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !

Click to expand...

It doesn’t fit. What nations lamented the avarice of Jerusalem? The Jews were poor and despised through out the empire.

Again does not fit and going back to pre-exilic Jerusalem which was destroyed when Revelation 18 has the harlot as an international economic empire.

Revelation 18: NASB

9Then the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her will weep and wail at the sight of the smoke rising from the fire that consumes her.e 10In fear of her torment, they will stand at a distance and cry out:

“Woe, woe to the great city,

the mighty city of Babylon!

For in a single hour

your judgment has come.”

11And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, because there is no one left to buy their cargo— 12cargo of gold, silver, precious stones, and pearls; of fine linen, purple, silk, and scarlet; of all kinds of citron wood and every article of ivory, precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; 13of cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, and frankincense; of wine, olive oil, fine flour, and wheat; of cattle, sheep, horses, and chariots; of slaves and souls of men:

14“The fruit of your soul’s desire

has departed from you;

all your luxury and splendor have vanished,

never to be seen again.”

15The merchants who sold these things and grew their wealth from her will stand at a distance, in fear of her torment. They will weep and mourn, 16saying:

“Woe, woe to the great city,

clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet,

adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls!

17For in a single hour

such fabulous wealth has been destroyed!”

Every shipmaster, passenger, and sailor, and all who make their living from the sea, will stand at a distance 18and cry out at the sight of the smoke rising from the fire that consumes her.f ‘What city was ever like this great city?’ they will exclaim.

19Then they will throw dust on their heads as they weep and mourn and cry out:

“Woe, woe to the great city,

where all who had ships on the sea

were enriched by her wealth!

For in a single hour she has been destroyed.”

20“Rejoice over her, O heaven,

O saints and apostles and prophets,

because for you God has pronounced

His judgment against her.”

redleghunter said:

It doesn’t fit. What nations lamented the avarice of Jerusalem? The Jews were poor and despised through out the empire.
Again does not fit and going back to pre-exilic Jerusalem which was destroyed when Revelation 18 has the harlot as an international economic empire.

Click to expand...

All those of the tribes of the Nations of Israel and Judah...........
Plus the Daughters of Jerusalem in Luke 23:27

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
2875. kopto kop'-to a primary verb; to "chop"; specially, to beat the breast in grief:--cut down, lament, mourn, (be-)wail. Compare the base of 5114.
G2875 κόπτω (koptō) occurs 10 times in 8 verses

Luk 23:27
And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned<2875> and lamented over Him.

Mat 24:30
“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn<2875>, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Rev 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn<2875> because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

Rev 18:9
“The kings of the lnd who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep<2875> and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning,

=================================
Oh, also the Merchants that sold their wares to 1st century Jerusalem.............

Nahum 3:2
A sound of a Whip, and sound of a quaking wheel, and horse galloping, and chariot leaping. A horseman mounting. And blazing sword, and flashing spear,
and many wounded and mass of corpses and there is no end to bodies. [Isaiah 28 "scourge"]

John 2:14
and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting, 15 and having made a whip of small cords, He put all forth out of the temple, also the sheep, and the oxen; and of the money-changers he poured out the coins, and the tables he overthrew,
[Nahum 3:2/Reve 18:11-13]

Revelation 18:
11 And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her, that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense and wine and oil and flour and grain and beasts and sheep and of horses and of chariots
and of bodies and souls of men.

Eze 27:24
“These were your merchants in choice items—in purple clothes, in embroidered garments, in chests of multicolored apparel, in sturdy woven cords, which were in your marketplace

The women mourning were for Christ not the destruction of Jerusalem.

This is what happens when one applies the jigsaw puzzles of out of context “proof texting.” The error is compounded when in the realm of eschatology.

redleghunter said:

The women mourning were for Christ not the destruction of Jerusalem.
This is what happens when one applies the jigsaw puzzles of out of context “proof texting.” The error is compounded when in the realm of eschatology.

Click to expand...

Yes, proof texting is good.......

Now, notice what Christ said to them

Luke 23:
27 Followed yet to Him a vast multitude of the people and of women were. And grieve<ekoptonto <2875> and wailed<eqrhnoun <2354> over Him.
28 Being-turned yet toward them, Jesus said: "Daughters of-Jerusalem! no be-lamenting<2799> over Me,
moreover, for yourselves be lamenting, and upon the children of ye.
29 That behold! Are coming Days in which they shall be declaring 'happy are the barren-ones, and the wombs which not generate, and breasts which not suckle. [Luke 21:23]
30 Then they shall be beginning to be saying to the Mountains: 'Be falling on us'!, and to the Hills 'Cover us'! [Revelation 6:16]
31 That if in the moist<5200> wood/xulw <3586>they are doing, in the dry/xhrw <3584> what may-be-becoming?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Luke 21:
22 That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath<3709> upon this people.

Luke 23:30 "..Mountains fall on us, hills cover us.."

Revelation 6:16
They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; and had actually eaten one half thereof, when the soldiers, allured by tile smell of food, threatened her with instant death if she refused to discover it. 'Intimidated by this menace, she immediately produced the remains of her son, which petrified them with horror. At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes.

redleghunter said:

It doesn’t fit. What nations lamented the avarice of Jerusalem? The Jews were poor and despised through out the empire.

Click to expand...

Earthly Jerusalem, by Divine right and calling, was the preeminent city among all nations. The Hebrew/Biblical understanding of Jerusalem is that she is the "Chief of the nations" (Jeremiah 31:7; Ez 5:5), the Queen city of the earth (Lam 1:1/Rev 18:7). She, by Divine right and covenant, was appointed as the head of all nations (Deut 26:19; Deut 15:6; Deut 28:1,10-13), and the gentile kings recognized God's dwelling was at Jerusalem with the Hebrews (1 Ki 10:24; Luke 11:31; Ezra 1:2; Dan 2:47, 3:28-29, 4:1-3, 4:17, 4:34-37; Ezra 1; Ezra 4-7; Ezra 7:15,23).

The Governor of all nations (Ps. 22:28) lived in Jerusalem in his House (Ez 7:15,23), and all the kingdom, power and might over earth was His (1 Chron 29:11-12). Indeed, all kings receive their power to rule from that Divine King (Rom 13:1-2,6; John 19:11; 1 Pet 2:13-14,17; Ez 1:2; Dan 1:1-2; Dan 2:20-21; Dan 2:37-38; Dan 2:47, Dan 3:28-29; Dan 4:1-3,17,34-37.).

Without question, Jerusalem is the ONLY City with the Divine Right to "Reign over the Kings of the Earth"

Yet, Jerusalem was also famous for becoming The Harlot City -- an unfaithful spouse to her King (Isa 1:21; Jer 3:6-10; Ez 16:37-39). She had become "drunk with the blood of the saints" (Rev 17:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16) as Christ had prophesied she would (Mt 23:33-36; Lk 11:50-51).

Sadly, the "great city," Jerusalem (Rev 11:8), had fallen, and had become the habitation of demons and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (Rev 18:2). The Queen City Jerusalem (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1), which had been great among the nations (Lam 1:1), had become a widow (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1). And She, having become an unfaithful Harlot to God, was thus "burned with fire" (Rev 18:8/17:16) as her covenant law demanded for her (Lev 21:9). The blood of all the apostles and prophets who she famously killed (Matt 23:33-36; Matt 21:34-39; Lk 13:33; Acts 7:52; 1 Thess 2:15-16; Lk 11:47; Neh 9:26; 1 Ki 19:14) was avenged upon her (Matt 23:33-36; Rev 16:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16).

The "Woman" of Revelation, who is the "Great City" that "reigns over the Kings of the Earth" can only be Jerusalem.

parousia70 said:

Earthly Jerusalem, by Divine right and calling, was the preeminent city among all nations.

Click to expand...

Not in 1st century AD. It was despised by the Roman world.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Now, notice what Christ said to them

Click to expand...

Which were Jews lamenting what was to come in 70AD.

Revelation 18 has the nations lamenting Babylon. Lamenting because the harlot made them rich.

How did Jerusalem in the 1st century under Roman domination make the nations rich?

redleghunter said:

I don’t adhere to Dispensational eschatology. Just the plain reading of prophecy as presented. See above. Jerusalem was not delivered in 70AD. It was destroyed.
Yet in Revelation 19 Jerusalem is not destroyed but the nations. And Jesus did not come back in 70AD.

Click to expand...

redleghunter said: ↑
I don’t adhere to Dispensational eschatology. Just the plain reading of prophecy as presented. See above. Jerusalem was not delivered in 70AD. It was destroyed.
Yet in Revelation 19 Jerusalem is not destroyed but the nations. And Jesus did not come back in 70AD.

Click to expand...

LittleLambofJesus said:

That is in Revelation 20 "Gog Magog]

Revelation 17 shows the armies of the 10 kings coming against Jerusalem at Armageddon and in Revelation 18 utterly destroys 70AD Jerusalem

Read this very carefully

Revelation 17:16
And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, These shall be hating the harlot,
and They shall be making Her desolate<2049> and naked,
and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating<5315>
and shall be burning Her in fire.

Revelation 18:8
Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>,
that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.
==================================
It is at the Gog-Magog battle that God destroys the armies coming against Jerusalem, the Devil is cast into the LoF and then the white throne judgement........

Revelation 20:
8 and he shall be coming out<1831> to deceive<4105 all the nations, that are in the four corners of the land -- the Gog and the Magog -- to gather them together/sunagagein<4863> into The Battle, of which the number of them as the sand of the sea;
9 They went up on the breadth of the land and surrounded the camp of the Saints and the beloved city.
And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
The Great White Throne Judgment

Rev 20:11
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

Click to expand...

redleghunter said:

Jerusalem is the harlot of Babylon?

Click to expand...

LittleLambofJesus said:

70ad Jerusalem WAS a Harlot, a Queen, Mystery Babylon, a great City etc, etc, etc.......

The fact remains, God sent a Gentile army to demolish the City [much like He did with His servant, the King of Babylon].........
Revelation 17:17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind
and to give Their kingdom to the Beast until shall be being finished<5055> the words of the GOD.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19
Post #6 "I SIT AS QUEEN, NOT A WIDOW......"

Revelation 18:7
“In the measure that She glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give Her torment and sorrow;
for She says in her heart, ‘I sit as Queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.'

Revelation 14:8
And another Messenger, second-one, follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of Her She has given to drink all the nations".
==============================
Lam 1:1
How deserted lies the City, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations!
She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave

Jere 51:8
Babylon has suddenly fallen and been destroyed. Wail for her! Take balm for her pain; Perhaps she may be healed.
==========================
www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory. There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection.

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! -- This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !

Click to expand...

redleghunter said:

It doesn’t fit. What nations lamented the avarice of Jerusalem? The Jews were poor and despised through out the empire.

Again does not fit and going back to pre-exilic Jerusalem which was destroyed when Revelation 18 has the harlot as an international economic empire.

Click to expand...

LittleLambofJesus said:

All those of the tribes of the Nations of Israel and Judah...........
Plus the Daughters of Jerusalem in Luke 23:27

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
2875. kopto kop'-to a primary verb; to "chop"; specially, to beat the breast in grief:--cut down, lament, mourn, (be-)wail. Compare the base of 5114.
G2875 κόπτω (koptō) occurs 10 times in 8 verses

Luk 23:27
And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned<2875> and lamented over Him.

Mat 24:30
“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn<2875>, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Rev 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn<2875> because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 7:4
And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

Rev 18:9
“The kings of the lnd who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep<2875> and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning,

=================================
Oh, also the Merchants that sold their wares to 1st century Jerusalem.............

Nahum 3:2
A sound of a Whip, and sound of a quaking wheel, and horse galloping, and chariot leaping. A horseman mounting. And blazing sword, and flashing spear,
and many wounded and mass of corpses and there is no end to bodies. [Isaiah 28 "scourge"]

John 2:14
and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting, 15 and having made a whip of small cords, He put all forth out of the temple, also the sheep, and the oxen; and of the money-changers he poured out the coins, and the tables he overthrew,
[Nahum 3:2/Reve 18:11-13]

Revelation 18:
11 And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her, that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense and wine and oil and flour and grain and beasts and sheep and of horses and of chariots
and of bodies and souls of men.

Eze 27:24
“These were your merchants in choice items—in purple clothes, in embroidered garments, in chests of multicolored apparel, in sturdy woven cords, which were in your marketplace

Click to expand...

redleghunter said: ↑
The women mourning were for Christ not the destruction of Jerusalem.
This is what happens when one applies the jigsaw puzzles of out of context “proof texting.” The error is compounded when in the realm of eschatology.

Click to expand...

LittleLambofJesus said:

Yes, proof texting is good.......
Now, notice what Christ said to them

Luke 23:
27 Followed yet to Him a vast multitude of the people and of women were. And grieve<ekoptonto <2875> and wailed<eqrhnoun <2354> over Him.
28 Being-turned yet toward them, Jesus said: "Daughters of-Jerusalem! no be-lamenting<2799> over Me,
moreover, for yourselves be lamenting, and upon the children of ye.
29 That behold! Are coming Days in which they shall be declaring 'happy are the barren-ones, and the wombs which not generate, and breasts which not suckle. [Luke 21:23]
30 Then they shall be beginning to be saying to the Mountains: 'Be falling on us'!, and to the Hills 'Cover us'! [Revelation 6:16]
31 That if in the moist<5200> wood/xulw <3586>they are doing, in the dry/xhrw <3584> what may-be-becoming?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Luke 21:
22 That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath<3709> upon this people.

Luke 23:30 "..Mountains fall on us, hills cover us.."

Revelation 6:16
They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; and had actually eaten one half thereof, when the soldiers, allured by tile smell of food, threatened her with instant death if she refused to discover it. 'Intimidated by this menace, she immediately produced the remains of her son, which petrified them with horror. At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes.

Click to expand...

redleghunter said:

Which were Jews lamenting what was to come in 70AD.

Revelation 18 has the nations lamenting Babylon. Lamenting because the harlot made them rich.

How did Jerusalem in the 1st century under Roman domination make the nations rich?

Click to expand...

That's all you have to say after I spent 30 minutes on that post?
I will no longer respond to your posts.......
God bless..........

LittleLambofJesus said:

That's all you have to say after I spent 30 minutes on that post?
I will no longer respond to your posts.......
God bless..........

Click to expand...

Yes. It does not take long to notice the entire premise of your posts rely on individual verses pitted with other out of context verses. That’s the sum of it sorry to say. Matching key individual words from several different passages out of the textual context is not how to interpret the Scriptures. We have to draw the truth from the context of the passage.

Probably why you did not address the entire chapter of Zechariah 12. And 14.

parousia70 said:

Earthly Jerusalem, by Divine right and calling, was the preeminent city among all nations. The Hebrew/Biblical understanding of Jerusalem is that she is the "Chief of the nations" (Jeremiah 31:7; Ez 5:5), the Queen city of the earth (Lam 1:1/Rev 18:7). She, by Divine right and covenant, was appointed as the head of all nations (Deut 26:19; Deut 15:6; Deut 28:1,10-13), and the gentile kings recognized God's dwelling was at Jerusalem with the Hebrews (1 Ki 10:24; Luke 11:31; Ezra 1:2; Dan 2:47, 3:28-29, 4:1-3, 4:17, 4:34-37; Ezra 1; Ezra 4-7; Ezra 7:15,23).

The Governor of all nations (Ps. 22:28) lived in Jerusalem in his House (Ez 7:15,23), and all the kingdom, power and might over earth was His (1 Chron 29:11-12). Indeed, all kings receive their power to rule from that Divine King (Rom 13:1-2,6; John 19:11; 1 Pet 2:13-14,17; Ez 1:2; Dan 1:1-2; Dan 2:20-21; Dan 2:37-38; Dan 2:47, Dan 3:28-29; Dan 4:1-3,17,34-37.).

Without question, Jerusalem is the ONLY City with the Divine Right to "Reign over the Kings of the Earth"

Yet, Jerusalem was also famous for becoming The Harlot City -- an unfaithful spouse to her King (Isa 1:21; Jer 3:6-10; Ez 16:37-39). She had become "drunk with the blood of the saints" (Rev 17:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16) as Christ had prophesied she would (Mt 23:33-36; Lk 11:50-51).

Sadly, the "great city," Jerusalem (Rev 11:8), had fallen, and had become the habitation of demons and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (Rev 18:2). The Queen City Jerusalem (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1), which had been great among the nations (Lam 1:1), had become a widow (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1). And She, having become an unfaithful Harlot to God, was thus "burned with fire" (Rev 18:8/17:16) as her covenant law demanded for her (Lev 21:9). The blood of all the apostles and prophets who she famously killed (Matt 23:33-36; Matt 21:34-39; Lk 13:33; Acts 7:52; 1 Thess 2:15-16; Lk 11:47; Neh 9:26; 1 Ki 19:14) was avenged upon her (Matt 23:33-36; Rev 16:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16).

The "Woman" of Revelation, who is the "Great City" that "reigns over the Kings of the Earth" can only be Jerusalem.

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Excellent!

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread
===========================
Matt 24:3 "full end/consummation of the age"

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full consummation<4930> of the Age?
Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be?
and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be fully consummated<4931>.
Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when then shall these be being?
And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @
CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

dailyprayerwarrior said:

The second time will be as a lion. Right now He is sitting on the right side of the Father's throne but upon His return, He will sit on the throne of David and rule from Jerusalem.
What a sight that will be! Come Lord Jesus, come!

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Stephen actually saw Jesus "standing" in Acts, as if in judgement against the murderous Jews, before he was stoned......
It is also when my bro Saul/Paul is introduced

Stoning of Stephen against the Law
Jan 13, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:

Another thing interesting I noticed. "Stephen" sees Jesus standing out of the rights of God and the word heaven is singular in verse 55 but plural in vs 56.
Interesting also how it is similar to the event in Revelation 19. Thoughts?.

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Acts 6:10 And not they were strong/iscuon <2480> (5707) to withstand to the Wisdom and to the Spirit to which he talked.
Acts 7:1 And the High-priest said, "are these things so?"

54 Now when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed upon him with their teeth.
56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens having been opened/ διηνοιγμένους<455>and the Son of Man standing out of rights of the God!"
58 and dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. His accusers took off their coats and laid them at the feet of a young man named Saul

John sees Him sitting on a horse in Revelation

Revelation 19:11
And I saw the heaven being opened<ἠνεῳγμένον <455> and behold!
A white horse! and the One sitting on it being called Faithful and True.
And in justice He is judging and battling.

redleghunter said:

Not in 1st century AD. It was despised by the Roman world.

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That is all you could muster up? And How does them being Despised erase it's God Given Divine right and calling?

I addressed that anyway here:
Yet, Jerusalem was also famous for becoming The Harlot City -- an unfaithful spouse to her King (Isa 1:21; Jer 3:6-10; Ez 16:37-39). She had become "drunk with the blood of the saints" (Rev 17:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16) as Christ had prophesied she would (Mt 23:33-36; Lk 11:50-51).

Sadly, the "great city," Jerusalem (Rev 11:8), had fallen, and had become the habitation of demons and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (Rev 18:2). The Queen City Jerusalem (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1), which had been great among the nations (Lam 1:1), had become a widow (Rev 18:7/Lam1:1). And She, having become an unfaithful Harlot to God, was thus "burned with fire" (Rev 18:8/17:16) as her covenant law demanded for her (Lev 21:9). The blood of all the apostles and prophets who she famously killed (Matt 23:33-36; Matt 21:34-39; Lk 13:33; Acts 7:52; 1 Thess 2:15-16; Lk 11:47; Neh 9:26; 1 Ki 19:14) was avenged upon her (Matt 23:33-36; Rev 16:6; Rev 18:20,24; 1 Thess 2:15-16).

Care to take another stab at the entirety of my post?

Why don't you take the scriptures I cited and explain to us why they do not mean what i contend?

I listed PLENTY, which should give you AMPLE resource to provide your alternate interpretation of them.

dailyprayerwarrior said:

Right now He is sitting on the right side of the Father's throne but upon His return, He will sit on the throne of David and rule from Jerusalem.

Click to expand...

Rather, He has already taken the Throne of David for Himself:

Acts 2:29-32

29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.


The Apostolic Interpretation above is the Authoritative one.

mkgal1 said:

He delivered them (and the rest of the world) from sin at the cross.

In 70 A.D. He delivered Jerusalem from the oppressive Temple system when He stripped the religious leaders of their power.

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Absolutely Correct.
The Remnant Faithful Jews of the Nazarene sect were preserved, protected, fought for and delivered.

While the Enemies of the Remnant (Essene's, Sadducee's, Pharisees, & Zealots and all other, Torah observant, yet Christ rejecting, Jews) were Violently exterminated out of the covenant forever.

The Futurist requirement that the continuation of Israel past 70AD be counted through the wicked unfaithful ones instead of the faithful remnant is polar opposite to all scriptural precedent and teaching.

We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

parousia70 said:

That is all you could muster up? And How does them being Despised erase it's God Given Divine right and calling?

Click to expand...

I did not need anymore to defeat your claim. So I gave you the actual history.

What you posited from a a source you did not link to or give citation credit to, is easily debunked. The Jews and Jerusalem of the 1st century AD were despised throughout the Roman Empire.