God works by the true Light which eightieth every man that cometh into the world John 1:9, He is the one working to draw all men inwardly and convict them and reprove all sin inwardly as well. But only when men receive him then they can become the sons Of God. God does not force this upon men as a robot.Original sin places mankind into hell. Everyone who has ever lived and will live deserves hell. From those destined to hell God chooses His elect. To those God shows mercy and compassion.
Do you really think you could have freely chosen Christ if God didn't act in your life? Regenerate you first?
I understand you can't answer my question because if you try to, all your questions will sound ridiculous to you.
God works by the true Light which eightieth every man that cometh into the world John 1:9, He is the one working to draw all men inwardly and convict them and reprove al;l sin inwardly as well. But only when men receive him then they can become the Sons Of God. God does not force this upon men as a robot.
You said:The excellency of the power is of God but we have this treasure in earthen vessels. As all do when God draws them. But not all will receive him or believe.
Yes, they knew good and evil immediately after their sin, that sin being the first act of evil to be known, a sin that would instantly change their state of being, casting them out of fellowship with God. They had died. Before that they were innocent of the knowledge of evil, and therefore of good, since everything they had experienced up to that time was good, God having created everything good. But to oppose and disobey God is the most basic act of evil, opening the door to all other sins that would follow because, by that act, man had become his own "god" now, determining good and evil (morality) for himself. Sin would now flourish; evil would become common knowledge for man.Genesis 3:22:"Then the Lord God said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil".
Doesn't God say they started to have the knowledge of good & evil AFTER they ate the forbidden fruit & NOT before?
we may, with the help of revelation and grace, gain the wisdom to turn back to Him,
I am not here to defend Calvinism but to seek answers.Well, I believe clarity of information is important if we are going to have a proper discussion on this topic and for you to prove that you are correct. You have to explain what you mean by your question. I am not going to defend your belief for you, friend. It is up to you defend Calvinism or to make your case for it in the Bible. From my perspective, the questions I asked you (that you are ignoring) are pretty Earth shattering to Calvinism. Why doesn't Jesus and His followers talk more in a Calvinistic way as Calvinists do today? Meaning, did Jesus ever tell people to "You cannot repent unless you are regenerated or elected by God." or did Jesus just plainly tell people to repent? or did Jesus just warn us all about sin and its consequences?
I am not here to defend Calvinism but to seek answers.
Your questions are well answered in the following: "Why did God create most though He foreknew they wouldn't believe in His Son?"
Because he created the human species and established the characteristics of humans such as intelligence, reasoning ability, and the ability to reproduce; and that all of this testifies to his love?I am not here to defend Calvinism but to seek answers.
Your questions are well answered in the following: "Why did God create most though He foreknew they wouldn't believe in His Son?"
Yes, they knew good and evil immediately after their sin, that sin being the first act of evil to be known, a sin that would instantly change their state of being, casting them out of fellowship with God. They had died. Before that they were innocent of the knowledge of evil, and therefore of good, since everything they had experienced up to that time was good, God having created everything good. But to oppose and disobey God is the most basic act of evil, opening the door to all other sins that would follow because, by that act, man had become his own "god" now, determining good and evil (morality) for himself. Sin would now flourish; evil would become common knowledge for man.
The Hebrew word used for knowledge here is most often used to denote experiential knowledge; to know a person carnally is one biblical example, or to know something directly, like a city, by actually traveling there. Adam & Eve were given consciences-they did not lack a sense of right and wrong and would've been naturally and immediately repulsed by murder, for example, if it could happen in Eden, or a whole host of evils that have now become commonplace in our fallen world. But they had never experienced these things; they had not known them; they were foreign. And the first and most basic law was commanded and enunciated directly by God so that they would've also already possessed a repulsion against disobedience, innately knowing that eating of the fruit would be wrong.
But the creature was given free will and he allowed the opinion and desire of creatures-themselves along with the serpent- to override God's will, not yet recognizing the infinite difference between Himself and them, and of the absolute perfection of His wisdom. Presumably that would come later as they learned of the difference and of their absolute need for God-we don't know the fate of our first parents. But either way we're all here to learn that same lesson so that, with the knowledge that parting from God only results in evils that we cannot overcome without Him ("Apart from Me you can do nothing", John 15:5), we may, with the help of revelation and grace, gain the wisdom to turn back to Him, the knowledge of good and evil having also played it's role in our "education".
And this explains why we're here, exiled from Eden into a place where, along with the good still inherent in creation, humankind has had to endure the evils of pain, suffering, sin, and death, the consequences of the ultimate evil that we also experience, being spiritually cut off and separated from our Creator. This is why it's so critical to regain the "knowledge of God", and this is exactly what Jesus came to reveal so that we may become reconciled with Him as we're willing. A teaching I'm familiar with says that, by his sin, Adam preferred himself to God. That's the rebellious family tradition that we're here to learn the foolishness of. Human history and God's working in and through it make no sense if not for the fact that through it all He's meaning to patiently mold and draw humanity into the light, without force or determinism, as we become ready to accept it.
You also stayed "As it is we're morally accountable beings because we're given the knowledge of justice; we know right from wrong".Yes, they knew good and evil immediately after their sin
I don't believe in isms but rather the Scripture.Your avatar and your reply in post #198 suggests otherwise that you are not trying to defend Calvinism. Are you saying you do not believe in Calvinism?
Isn't it because He has a plan & purpose in human history for His glory?Because he created the human species and established the characteristics of humans such as intelligence, reasoning ability, and the ability to reproduce; and that all of this testifies to his love?
I was afraid I may not have made myself clear. The name, "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil", has nothing to do with a point in time when Adam & Eve acquired a conscience, or began knowing right from wrong. As I stated later, in my second paragraph, "Adam & Eve were given consciences". By that I mean that they already possessed them, as created. The term "the knowledge of good and evil" deals with the actual knowledge or experience of both, begotten by their first experience of evil, their own sin against God, with evil bringing good into focus by contrast. From then on these two realities, good and evil, would be literally known to man. A major paradigm shift had taken place in their world. They were now in a foreign state of being which would have to become the new norm for humanity: cut off in some manner from God, from their fellow man, from the rest of creation, and even from themselves.You also stayed "As it is we're morally accountable beings because we're given the knowledge of justice; we know right from wrong".
If they started to have the knowledge of good & evil only after eating the forbidden fruit, how can you say they were moral beings before they ate the fruit?
I don't believe in isms but rather the Scripture.
I am not here to defend Calvinism but to seek answers.
Your questions are well answered in the following: "Why did God create most though He foreknew they wouldn't believe in His Son?"