~Anastasia~
† Handmaid of God †
- Dec 1, 2013
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Sorry I didn't mean to imply a hierarchy among people, no. There IS a certain ecclesiastical hierarchy for some organizational purposes, but no one is more "important" than anyone else (nor should we seek to be) and in the council it is my understanding that the vote of each bishop is equal. I'm probably not explaining very well. But the Patriarch of Constantinople (essentially the "highest-ranking" hierarch) is called "the first among equals". He has some administrative responsibilities but is also equal to all the others - it's nothing like the Pope in Catholicism, who is not only considered paramount but also now infallible in certain circumstances.Interesting, but about the idea it was the first moment in scripture, chapter 6 in Matthew for instance is well before chapter 23 in time we think because we believe Matthew is generally chronological. Right?
We happened to have just read chapter 23 in our Sunday morning Bible study, and I spoke up and said I'd like to hear commentaries on those first 12 verses. Even though we all know a commentary is just an informed opinion generally (and so also I view many doctrines people come up with). The meaning I ended up with is that He is saying in the 12 verses several things, including crucially that while we here can be teachers of one another none of us ever is the Teacher -- only He is.
So, also, in like form, while someone can be a 'father' to another, as Paul used the word for example, we all have only one Father, alone, Who is our truly "Father" with a capital letter if you like (as a way to understand He is singularly our only Father, there is no other) -- God alone is our "Father" in that true Father way, and no man can be even partly a substitute for God in that way -- Christ commands us to pray directly to God our Father in Matthew 6 of course as you know, and that's another instance of how only He alone is our "Father" in this capital way. (Perhaps this thread should be moved to the Justin's forum if we discuss this much
"We are not to call anyone Father, Teacher, etc. as an extreme honorific. If it's meant to kind of show them as being far above us, it's done wrongly. "
Asking for a clarification or language understanding --
Isn't this instead the actual Orthodox position --> Not only is none 'far' above others, but nor is anyone even "partly" above -- "You are all brothers" [and sisters of course] Christ said directly to us.
He emphasizes there that none are above anyone else, and I know it's the Orthodox position I've heard here that no bishop is above the others. But I'm assuming that's part of the general situation, that the Orthodox position is precisely like Christ said to the disciples in the beginning of Matthew 18 and again in 23 (v11 for instance), right? That anyone in the Orthodox church would then be expected to be only a servant to the others? Is that correct?
Sorry - too many words and I know I'm not explaining well.
Orthodoxy isn't about ranking, period. If there is any right competition, it's maybe joked about among the monastics in their efforts to be least - not greatest. But even that can't be overdone or a reverse-pride can be at work.
It was just my way of trying to illustrate that Jesus was talking about the lofty way some religious leaders were set up and admired - and that we are not supposed to do that.
I wasn't making any point about the Church at all. I apologize for the confusion.
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