conservative groups fight mindfulness in schools

FireDragon76 said:

I don't think that's helpful at all.

Jesus Christ in the human imagination is different from Jesus Christ as an actual historical person.

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This truth is not helpful? Do you think that Christians conjure up some fake Jesus that we claim to pray to and "know"? You say that you believe in the historical figure, but you don't believe the things He said? Or you don't think the Bible is an accurate record of His words and deeds?

I'm just conveying to you the truths that He Himself spoke. If you reject His words, then you reject Him. If you reject Him as God and Lord, then what is your hope??

FireDragon76 said:

Those aren't bugs, they were features.

That's why it's better to follow what we can know of the historical Jesus than religious fantasies of the blue-eyed Aryan Jesus who likes what we like and hates what we hate. That's why I find this "personal relatioship with Jesus" stuff so unpersuasive. That Jesus always seems to confirm whatever ones ethnos has to say about morality. That's not treating Jesus as a real person, more of a projection of human ideals.

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I can agree with you on this.

Parents have every right to determine for their child to not learn 'mindfulness' in school.

FireDragon76 said:

Those aren't bugs, they were features.

That's why it's better to follow what we can know of the historical Jesus than religious fantasies of the blue-eyed Aryan Jesus who likes what we like and hates what we hate. That's why I find this "personal relatioship with Jesus" stuff so unpersuasive. That Jesus always seems to confirm whatever ones ethnos has to say about morality. That's not treating Jesus as a real person, more of a projection of human ideals.

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Wow, I don't know anyone who thinks this. If this is how Christians in your church think, I advise you to change churches.

FireDragon76 said:

In my church people are not required to think all alike. So my views are my own.

Perhaps you should broaden the circle of ideas you are in contact with. I would not be the first to suggest that people often construct images of religious figures in their mind whom they want to believe in due to unconscious reasons. That was a key observation of the German philosopher Ludwig Feuerbach, but was also echoed by Sigmund Freud, and to a lesser extent, Albert Schweitzer.

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Broaden the circle of my ideas? That's kind a a condescending thing to say. You don't know me and have no idea what ideas I've been exposed to throughout my life. I grew up in a home with parents who were not Christians. I've actually studied many different philosophies over the years, even after becoming a Christian.

You seem to put a lot of stock in the ideas of people who have rejected God. Even though Freud grew up in a Jewish home, he rejected the truth about God and came up with his own unbiblical ideas about what makes people tick. Unfortunately, I see his ideas influencing the world and even Christians to this day. I studied his theories in depth when I was working on a degree in psychology at a major secular university.

So, before you judge someone, you may want to get the facts about where they are coming from. And then do what Jesus said: "Don't judge."

FireDragon76 said:

Whose being condescending, exactly? You are the one claiming to peer into my soul and saying I need a "personal relationship with Jesus". I'm saying you don't know much of anything about my inner life.

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Absolutely, it's not my place to judge you. If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and have made Him your Lord, that's great. I just got the impression from what you said that you have not done this.

FireDragon76 said:

So? Again, more axiomatic (unquestionable) and tribalistic assertions about who is, and is not, an authority.

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I think it's clear that I believe that the Bible is the word of God, supernaturally inspired and supernaturally understood. So, that is my authority as it is with most Christians, I would think and hope. If someone's ideas contradict the Bible, I will unapologetically choose to believe what the Bible says.

FireDragon76 said:

Ideas that have helped many people, so it would seem that we should be cautious about condemning him out of hand.

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Really? You know this for a fact?? Freud was an atheist. He chose to reject God. Considering that it's the truth that sets us free, according the words of Jesus, how is it that someone who rejected the truth can offer real solutions for mankind?

FireDragon76 said:

Oh the irony. Christian fundamentalists are often the first to judge their neighbor and their religion, as you yourself have done here.

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You're pigeonholing me as a "fundamentalist," LOL! Is it because I believe that the Bible is the word of God?? You might be surprised at how un-fundamentalist some of my beliefs are! But I understand if you don't care to broaden your circle of ideas.

FireDragon76 said:

Not all atheists are wrong all the time in every way. To say otherwise is bigotry and tribalism that is actually beneath the kind of love as exemplified in Jesus of Nazareth.

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No, I suppose if an atheist believes that 2+2=4, I wouldn't think he is wrong (I say tongue in cheek). But we're not talking about this kind of information pertaining to Freud's theories, which are meant to explain human nature. According to Freud, man's biggest problems have external causes--how he is raised or potty trained or whatever. But God has made it clear in the Bible that man's biggest problem is internal--that he is a hopelessly flawed sinner in need of a savior.

Do you see the huge discrepancy between Freud's theories and God's truth? Which ideas will save a person and keep him/her out of hell? Which ideas will fulfill a person to the depths of his/her soul? Our Creator's or those of a mere man who has rejected his Creator?

I lived by Freud's ideas for years before I was saved. And I was happy--a happy sinner. But I was on the broad road that leads to destruction and I didn't even know it. I thought that I was a good person, but I was very mistaken. Jesus reached out to me and showed me His amazing love, and I took His hand, gave Him my life, and never looked back.

Jesus said that if we love Him, we will obey His commands. So, no one can claim to love Him but ignore His words. This is not my judgment. It is His judgment, and who are we to question Him?

FireDragon76 said:

Your account of the Bible is what religious fundamentalists typically assert, that it is verbally inspired, and not the product of human processes that can be understood using the same tools we would understand any other class of ancient writings.

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You'll find that all major Christian denominations teach this, so I'm not sure that it's a fundamentalist idea. Of course, I'm not absolutely certain of your definition of fundamentalism, but I have to conclude that your view of it is negative from what you're saying. So, maybe you could give me your definition.

Pedra said:

Meditation in buddhist sense is emptying the mind, or watching your thoughts it is not the same meaning as the Bible term -meditate. The Bible's term in Psalm 1:2 for eg. means to ponder, to think upon your precepts. So reading God's word , studying the scriptures and pondering on the meaning of it.

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Christian parents can teach their children to meditate as Christians regardless what others are doing: "When they say it's time for meditation, son, this is how we meditate. Let me teach you some Psalms for those times."

In fact, that is an essential skill that Christians must learn in this world. Because Christian parents don't teach it is the reason why most of those kids will drift away in college.

Resha Caner said:

Wow. You must have had a different parenting experience than I did. (chuckle, snort)

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Maybe I did.

When my daughter was about five, I sat down with her to watch a fairly poor animated version of "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe." When they got to the point where Aslan is resurrected from the dead to the joy of the two sisters, my daughter suddenly said, "That's just like Jesus!"

Now, I'll give credit to my wife for the foundational teaching that enabled my daughter to understand that reference. A whole lot of adults don't get it.

During that same period, I was suffering some extreme pressure at work. My daughter--five years old--came up to me and asked me if I was sad. Then she placed a hand on my shoulder and began praying in tongues.

Children can learn, children must learn, and they need to have that foundation before sending them to Caesar's schools.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

Parents have every right to determine for their child to not learn 'mindfulness' in school.

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"If you send your children to Caesar's schools, don't be surprised if they turn out Romans."

RDKirk said:

"If you send your children to Caesar's schools, don't be surprised if they turn out Romans."

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I don't disagree, but with what control they do have within the public school system they should use it.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

I don't disagree, but with what control they do have within the public school system they should use it.

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The Body of Christ has been given the resources to educate the children in the Body of Christ.

FireDragon76 said:

The ELCA does not teach this, neither do most Episcopalians. We believe the Bible contains the Word of God without being identical to it in every word of the text.

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So, what is your definition of fundamentalism?

Deborah D said:

So, what is your definition of fundamentalism?

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You are incredibly patient. Perhaps it is gifting on display.