conservative groups fight mindfulness in schools

[Deborah D]

Me too, I woke up in the 90's also, God took the scales off! it was like coming out of the Matrix, right?

The Matrix, LOL! Even though the creators of the Matrix idea are not Christian, I think the Matrix represents those who are blind to the truth because they value comfort over the harsh realities of this world.

I talked to so many parents back in the day about radical reforms going into our school system. Most of them told me that they knew the reforms were bad, but their child's teacher was okay.... Not willing to get out of their comfort zone and see the truth, but it's the TRUTH, God's truth, Bible truth, that sets us free!!!

 

[Resha Caner]

I talked to so many parents back in the day about radical reforms going into our school system. Most of them told me that they knew the reforms were bad, but their child's teacher was okay.... Not willing to get out of their comfort zone and see the truth

Yeah, well, that was me. Sometimes it's therapeutic to vent, so here goes. One of my kids had some medical issues. There was trouble at every school attended - even the Lutheran parochial school for grades 1-8.

It takes a long time and a lot of work to understand what's really going on. Since my kid had acknowledged issues, I started by trying to fix my kid. Then I moved into negotiations where I tried to get the school to carry some of load. It came to a head when my kid was expelled after being deemed a risk to other students. We had to get a lawyer before the school would tell us what happened. When my kid was brought to the principal's office, an interrogation occurred without our knowledge and without an advocate for my kid - though all kinds of school staff was there. Some of what was deemed a "risk" was when my kid referenced his Christian beliefs. The staff decided those beliefs were hallucinations and proof of an unstable mind.

When that came out, the result was the firing of a school counselor and reinstatement of my kid. However, before reinstatement the school assigned a tutor, and my kid had to study at home for months before being allowed back into the school building. In total my kid was out of school for almost a year. I was present when the school lawyer found out what had happened. She immediately closed her notebook, stood up, told the school, "settle", and walked out.

All the wonderfully sympathetic people in the world respond with, "See, it worked out", while they ignore the incredible emotional and financial burden it placed on my family to fight that case.

Aside from venting, my point is: it takes years to come to grips with what's happening, more years after that to successfully fight it, and then even more years to put your life back together when it's done. It's not easy. My wife and I have debated whether we should offer our experience to others having similar issues. So far we've not been able to make ourselves go through it again.

 

[Pedra]

David Horowitz has authored book: "DARK AGENDA: The War to Destroy Christian America"

 

[Deborah D]

Yeah, well, that was me. Sometimes it's therapeutic to vent, so here goes. One of my kids had some medical issues. There was trouble at every school attended - even the Lutheran parochial school for grades 1-8.

It takes a long time and a lot of work to understand what's really going on. Since my kid had acknowledged issues, I started by trying to fix my kid. Then I moved into negotiations where I tried to get the school to carry some of load. It came to a head when my kid was expelled after being deemed a risk to other students. We had to get a lawyer before the school would tell us what happened. When my kid was brought to the principal's office, an interrogation occurred without our knowledge and without an advocate for my kid - though all kinds of school staff was there. Some of what was deemed a "risk" was when my kid referenced his Christian beliefs. The staff decided those beliefs were hallucinations and proof of an unstable mind.

When that came out, the result was the firing of a school counselor and reinstatement of my kid. However, before reinstatement the school assigned a tutor, and my kid had to study at home for months before being allowed back into the school building. In total my kid was out of school for almost a year. I was present when the school lawyer found out what had happened. She immediately closed her notebook, stood up, told the school, "settle", and walked out.

All the wonderfully sympathetic people in the world respond with, "See, it worked out", while they ignore the incredible emotional and financial burden it placed on my family to fight that case.

Aside from venting, my point is: it takes years to come to grips with what's happening, more years after that to successfully fight it, and then even more years to put your life back together when it's done. It's not easy. My wife and I have debated whether we should offer our experience to others having similar issues. So far we've not been able to make ourselves go through it again.

This is alarming! A Christian school did this to your son/family???

After spending years as a public school teacher, I ended up home schooling my children, and what a blessing that has been! My oldest was a toddler when I began leaning about and fighting radical reforms in my state. I helped form a parent group, and as a result, I was interviewed quite a bit by the media. Soooo, my name was mud in our school system. I wasn't about to place my child in the hands of those maniacs, and private school wasn't an option for us, or I would have gone that route.

 

[FireDragon76]

David Horowitz has authored book: "DARK AGENDA: The War to Destroy Christian America"

Don't trust somebody who is so insincere... he has an agenda. Horowitz is a neo-conservative Jew who wants to manipulate your religious sensibilities for political ends. That's not somebody who genuinely cares about you and the integrity of your beliefs, that's somebody that wants to exploit you.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yeah, well, that was me. Sometimes it's therapeutic to vent, so here goes. One of my kids had some medical issues. There was trouble at every school attended - even the Lutheran parochial school for grades 1-8.

It takes a long time and a lot of work to understand what's really going on. Since my kid had acknowledged issues, I started by trying to fix my kid. Then I moved into negotiations where I tried to get the school to carry some of load. It came to a head when my kid was expelled after being deemed a risk to other students. We had to get a lawyer before the school would tell us what happened. When my kid was brought to the principal's office, an interrogation occurred without our knowledge and without an advocate for my kid - though all kinds of school staff was there. Some of what was deemed a "risk" was when my kid referenced his Christian beliefs. The staff decided those beliefs were hallucinations and proof of an unstable mind.

When that came out, the result was the firing of a school counselor and reinstatement of my kid. However, before reinstatement the school assigned a tutor, and my kid had to study at home for months before being allowed back into the school building. In total my kid was out of school for almost a year. I was present when the school lawyer found out what had happened. She immediately closed her notebook, stood up, told the school, "settle", and walked out.

All the wonderfully sympathetic people in the world respond with, "See, it worked out", while they ignore the incredible emotional and financial burden it placed on my family to fight that case.

Aside from venting, my point is: it takes years to come to grips with what's happening, more years after that to successfully fight it, and then even more years to put your life back together when it's done. It's not easy. My wife and I have debated whether we should offer our experience to others having similar issues. So far we've not been able to make ourselves go through it again.

Calling religious experiences hallucinatory is a tactic that people often use to discredit the validity of somebody else's experiences. A public school counsellor should definitely not be making that sort of judgment.

 

[Deborah D]

Don't trust somebody who is so insincere... he has an agenda. Horowitz is a neo-conservative Jew who wants to manipulate your religious sensibilities for political ends. That's not somebody who genuinely cares about you and the integrity of your beliefs, that's somebody that wants to exploit you.

You keep making me laugh, literally. We ALL have an agenda, even you.

According to Wikipedia, Horowitz is an agnostic, so that kind of puts a damper on your claims. Just saying.

 

[FireDragon76]

You keep making me laugh, literally.

According to Wikipedia, Horowitz is an agnostic, so that kind of puts a damper on your claims. Just saying.

My point is that he has no real investment in Christian beliefs. So I would be highly skeptical of that aspect of his narrative of the world. He is bound to just see Christian belief as something he can manipulate for political ends.

BTW, alot of Jews are agnostic, even some religious ones. Judaism doesn't necessarily define itself by faith, but by practice.

 

[Deborah D]

Calling religious experiences hallucinatory is a tactic that people often use to discredit the validity of somebody else's experiences. A public school counsellor should definitely not be making that sort of judgment.

Now, I agree with what you're saying here. So, at this point we're in agreement at a ratio of 1:2. That's not bad at all.

 

[Deborah D]

My point is that he has no real investment in Christian beliefs. So I would be highly skeptical of that aspect of his narrative of the world. He is bound to just see Christian belief as something he can manipulate for political ends.

Okay, now you're confusing me. Do YOU have a real investment in Christian (meaning biblical) beliefs? Perhaps you do, but it doesn't seem to be consistent at all going by what you've said in this thread.

 

[Resha Caner]

This is alarming! A Christian school did this to your family?

The story is complicated, so I tried to simplify. Maybe too much. We had issues with a Christian school, yes. At one point a board member told me, "I don't understand why we have to suffer because of your problems". We left that school, so the part involving a lawyer happened at a public school.

My point was that I understand why people don't want to challenge the system. It's daunting. You lose friends (almost all in our case). You get a reputation as an unreasonable trouble maker. The list goes on.

 

[Deborah D]

The story is complicated, so I tried to simplify. Maybe too much. We had issues with a Christian school, yes. At one point a board member told me, "I don't understand why we have to suffer because of your problems". We left that school, so the part involving a lawyer happened at a public school.

My point was that I understand why people don't want to challenge the system. It's daunting. You lose friends (almost all in our case). You get a reputation as an unreasonable trouble maker. The list goes on.

Yeah, I understand. I was considered a troublemaker in my local school system. Really, in my entire state! But we're in good company. Elijah was called the "troubler of Israel" in 1 Kings 18:17. This comforted me as I was being trashed by local school officials on the 6:00 news.

 

[FireDragon76]

Okay, now you're confusing me. Do YOU have a real investment in Christian (meaning biblical) beliefs? Perhaps you do, but it doesn't seem to be consistent at all going by what you've said in this thread.

I am baptized and a member of a church, so I have some investment. I may not measure up to your standards however.

I probably understand "biblical" differently from you. Polygamy, circumcision, and taking women as captives in war are all biblical, but I wouldn't see them as compatible with my values. I value the ethics of the historical Jesus of Nazareth, however.

 

[Resha Caner]

Calling religious experiences hallucinatory is a tactic that people often use to discredit the validity of somebody else's experiences. A public school counsellor should definitely not be making that sort of judgment.

Hence my hesitation when all these wonderful programs are pushed on schools.

I had people pulling me aside to make secret little comments to the effect of, "It's happened to me too. I hope you win." In the beginning, when I was naive, I would ask those people to support me. Suddenly they would avoid me.

 

[Resha Caner]

Yeah, I understand. I was considered a troublemaker in my local school system. Really, in my entire state! But we're in good company. Elijah was called the "troubler of Israel" in 1 Kings 18:17. This comforted me as I was being trashed by local school officials on the 6:00 news.

Yeah. We had people talking about us on public radio. Not fun. My other kid would get comments about, "Oh, you're from that family?"

[edit] When we made our first attempt to retain a lawyer, we were told, "No one in this city will take your case. You'll have to go elsewhere." So we retained a lawyer who lived several hundred miles away - one with connections to Bill Clinton and a national reputation. Someone active in the AntiDefamation League. Ha! That that's where a Christian has to turn for help is a perfect commentary on where we are.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

David Horowitz has authored book: "DARK AGENDA: The War to Destroy Christian America"

Unless the following historical facts of American history are examples of Christian values and biblical principles, then the United States of America was not founded upon Christian principles.

There were forced Indian removals, massacres of Native Americans, 89 years of slavery, the Three-Fifths Compromise, and nearly two centuries of denying minorities equality to white people.

In America, black people were once believed to be inferior to white people. They were enslaved and owned as property for 89 years. They were beaten and murdered by lynching and hung from trees.

In America, black people were legally segregated from white people. They had to sit at the back of the bus and were legally required to give up their seat to a white person. They were not allowed to eat in the same counter with white people in a public restaurant or use the same public restroom as white people or use the same drinking fountain as white people. Black children were forbidden to attend a public school with white children. Black people were also denied the right to vote until the Jim Crow Laws were abolished by the Voting Rights Act in 1965. Furthermore, Native Americans were denied U.S. citizenship for 148 years and they were also denied the freedom of religion for 202 years.

In America, "No Colored" signs, "No Mexicans" signs, "No Indians and dogs" signs, and "Whites Only" signs once dawned public stores and restaurants. And yet the popular claim remains that America was founded on Christian principles and it was also founded on freedom, liberty and justice for all.

And while we're on this subject, willfully ignoring what I posted yesterday earlier in this thread about America's undeniable history of racism against minorities doesn't negate any of its historical truth.

 

[Deborah D]

I am baptized and a member of a church, so I have some investment. I may not measure up to your standards however.

I probably understand "biblical" differently from you. Polygamy, circumcision, and taking women as captives in war are all biblical, but I wouldn't see them as compatible with my values. I value the ethics of the historical Jesus of Nazareth, however.

Hey, not a problem. Don't worry about my standards unless they are biblical. The standards in the Bible are the ones you need to be concerned about.

While valuing the ethics of the historical Jesus is a good thing, I pray that you will come to know Him personally as your God and Lord. This is the biblical standard for salvation. When some people told Jesus that they had done miracles and cast out demons in His name..., He told them to go away because He had never KNOWN them. He said that they worked "iniquity" (Matthew 7:23).

Like I keep saying, Christianity is not a religion as much as it is a relationship. We have to KNOW Jesus Christ personally, not just acknowledge Him as a historical figure. We have to follow Him and obey Him as our Lord 24/7/365. Not saying I do this perfectly, but this is my main agenda in life.

 

[FireDragon76]

Hey, not a problem. Don't worry about my standards unless they are biblical. The standards in the Bible are the ones you need to be concerned about.

While valuing the ethics of the historical Jesus is a good thing, I pray that you will come to know Him personally as your God and Lord. This is the biblical standard for salvation. When some people told Jesus that they had done miracles and cast out demons in His name..., He told them to go away because He had never KNOWN them. He said that they worked "iniquity" (Matthew 7:23).

I don't think that's helpful at all.

Like I keep saying, Christianity is not a religion as much as it is a relationship. We have to KNOW Jesus Christ personally, not just acknowledge Him as a historical figure. We have to follow Him and obey Him as our Lord 24/7/365. Not saying I do this perfectly, but this is my main agenda in life.

Jesus Christ in the human imagination is different from Jesus Christ as an actual historical person.

 

[Deborah D]

Unless the following historical facts of American history are examples of Christian values and biblical principles, then the United States of America was not founded upon Christian principles.

There were forced Indian removals, massacres of Native Americans, 89 years of slavery, the Three-Fifths Compromise, and nearly two centuries of denying minorities equality to white people.

In America, black people were once believed to be inferior to white people. They were enslaved and owned as property for 89 years. They were beaten and murdered by lynching and hung from trees.

In America, black people were legally segregated from white people. They had to sit at the back of the bus and were legally required to give up their seat to a white person. They were not allowed to eat in the same counter with white people in a public restaurant or use the same public restroom as white people or use the same drinking fountain as white people. Black children were forbidden to attend a public school with white children. Black people were also denied the right to vote until the Jim Crow Laws were abolished by the Voting Rights Act in 1965. Furthermore, Native Americans were denied U.S. citizenship for 148 years and they were also denied the freedom of religion for 202 years.

In America, "No Colored" signs, "No Mexicans" signs, "No Indians and dogs" signs, and "Whites Only" signs once dawned public stores and restaurants. And yet the popular claim remains that America was founded on Christian principles and it was also founded on freedom, liberty and justice for all.

And while we're on this subject, willfully ignoring what I posted yesterday earlier in this thread about America's undeniable history of racism against minorities doesn't negate any of its historical truth.

It's true that at times the U.S. government and some citizens have participated in atrocities. I don't think that anyone would deny it. But this doesn't negate the strong Christian influence in our nation's founding. It's not either/or in this case.

You seem to have some personal bitterness about this, and I understand how that is. My family has been horribly mistreated by others, not because of our "race," but because people tend to be hateful. I pray that you will be able to forgive and be healed from whatever wrongs have been done to you.

 

[FireDragon76]

Unless the following historical facts of American history are examples of Christian values and biblical principles, then the United States of America was not founded upon Christian principles.

There were forced Indian removals, massacres of Native Americans, 89 years of slavery, the Three-Fifths Compromise, and nearly two centuries of denying minorities equality to white people.

In America, black people were once believed to be inferior to white people. They were enslaved and owned as property for 89 years. They were beaten and murdered by lynching and hung from trees.

Those aren't bugs, they were features.

That's why it's better to follow what we can know of the historical Jesus than religious fantasies of the blue-eyed Aryan Jesus who likes what we like and hates what we hate. That's why I find this "personal relatioship with Jesus" stuff so unpersuasive. That Jesus always seems to confirm whatever ones ethnos has to say about morality. That's not treating Jesus as a real person, more of a projection of human ideals.